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  • #16
    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

    That brings up an interesting question... is psychotherapy covered under your insurance in Ireland, and is that insurance government-provided, or is it provided by your employer?
    You pay them with sand for their crystal ball.

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    • #17
      i was raised catholic, but, thank god, it didn't take ...
      __________________________________________________ ______________________________
      new sig currently under construction

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      • #18
        I started talking about guilt.
        Is this girl, um, racked with guilt for posing like this?

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        • Hoot Owl
          Hoot Owl commented
          Editing a comment
          Nice bra.

      • #19
        Originally posted by Belva View Post
        I started talking about guilt.
        Is this girl, um, racked with guilt for posing like this?
        Hehehe racked hehehe

        What are the guys and girl looking at ?
        Last edited by oldsoapbars; 09-05-2017, 10:25 AM.

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        • #20
          Originally posted by gubu View Post
          I was raised agnostic/atheist/ah-go-away-and-figure-it-out-yourself-son, in an overwhelmingly Catholic country. And I'm in therapy at the moment with a good old fashioned serious Presbyterian moralist, who can't figure out why I don't even feel guilty about not feeling guilty

          Has anyone else here had the 2 dimensional world of religious faith get in the way of their earnest attempts at therapeutic self-actualisation?
          Not sure why you say it's 2 dimensional - if anything, it's 4 dimensional and more real than real in a lot of ways, for good and bad.

          Anyway, religious faith had no impact on my self-actualisation, but it had a YUUUUGE negative impact on my experience as a kid and teenager growing up in the Bible Belt South as I was in a non-believing family surrounded by evangelical Christians. We were ostracized in various ways, and I got to see first hand how religious fundamentalism can cause people to become narrow-minded, ignorant, sanctimonious, hateful nitwits.

          That said, I've evolved in my views of religion in general.

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          • #21
            Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

            That brings up an interesting question... is psychotherapy covered under your insurance in Ireland, and is that insurance government-provided, or is it provided by your employer?
            It's definitely covered under Social Insurance, which is the route I took since I'm eligible. I'm not sure about whether it's covered under private insurance. But I'd imagine many people with private insurance probably pay up front in any event, to avoid the rise in premiums were they to disclose such therapy to their insurers.
            flip the phase

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            • #22
              Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post

              Not sure why you say it's 2 dimensional - if anything, it's 4 dimensional and more real than real in a lot of ways, for good and bad.

              Anyway, religious faith had no impact on my self-actualisation, but it had a YUUUUGE negative impact on my experience as a kid and teenager growing up in the Bible Belt South as I was in a non-believing family surrounded by evangelical Christians. We were ostracized in various ways, and I got to see first hand how religious fundamentalism can cause people to become narrow-minded, ignorant, sanctimonious, hateful nitwits.

              That said, I've evolved in my views of religion in general.
              The 'map', and the ingrained prejudices, as I've outlined, are what I find 2D, in this case.

              I guess I had a similar upbringing to you, but the Catholic Church was quickly losing traction here when I was growing up. At that point, many of my parents' generation were only paying lip service to the rituals. So there was no ostracism. No one cared, to be quite honest.

              And, the memory of our parish priest being laughed out of my 5th year classroom by a bunch of 16 year old boys will love long in the memory, for what it was worth!
              flip the phase

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              • #23
                Originally posted by gubu View Post

                The 'map', and the ingrained prejudices, as I've outlined, are what I find 2D, in this case.

                I guess I had a similar upbringing to you, but the Catholic Church was quickly losing traction here when I was growing up. At that point, many of my parents' generation were only paying lip service to the rituals. So there was no ostracism. No one cared, to be quite honest.

                And, the memory of our parish priest being laughed out of my 5th year classroom by a bunch of 16 year old boys will love long in the memory, for what it was worth!



                Yeah the Evangelical Christian movement was a force to be reckoned with and still is here obviously. Imagine my horror when I finally got out of the South and then saw religious fundamentalism gaining ground everywhere else. I'd thought it was a local Texas disease.

                I have no problem with religion in general as you know. I'm actually an advocate of it, but it's one of those things that when used in the wrong ways can do enormous damage, as you and I have both seen in our respective countries.

                I remember later in life when I met a fellow from Tunisia whom I suspect had some fundamentalist leanings. He had the same crazy gleam in his eye as I'd seen in all the Jesus freaks in Texas, the same black and white view, and the same absolute certainty about everything he said. Dangerous people.
                Last edited by Zig al-din; 09-05-2017, 12:23 PM.

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                • #24
                  Not a fan of religion, but I do believe in God. Because you're human, you're not going to be able to keep God's Commandments 100% of the time, but that's okay. Your sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ. Do your best, use good sense, and go enjoy your gift of life.

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                  • #25
                    As long as religion stays out of gov't, they can do whatever they want. They still do have political sway. However it is limited by the 1st.

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                    • #26
                      Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post




                      Yeah the Evangelical Christian movement was a force to be reckoned with and still is here obviously. Imagine my horror when I finally got out of the South and then saw religious fundamentalism gaining ground everywhere else. I'd thought it was a local Texas disease.

                      I have no problem with religion in general as you know. I'm actually an advocate of it, but it's one of those things that when used in the wrong ways can do enormous damage, as you and I have both seen in our respective countries.

                      I remember later in life when I met a fellow from Tunisia whom I suspect had some fundamentalist leanings. He had the same crazy gleam in his eye as I'd seen in all the Jesus freaks in Texas, the same black and white view, and the same absolute certainty about everything he said. Dangerous people.
                      It's a form of cultural brainwashing, unfortunately. Our Northern evangelicals are almost identical to those you have in the US, to my eyes. The inherent racism, homophobia, absolute surety in their own rightness etc. Add in a healthy dose of nationalist/imperialist jingoism, and the persecution complex brought about by the fact that civilised society has simply moved on, and it's a recipe for a truly reprehensible faction in public life, and in society in general.

                      Not that I'm lumping my therapist in with that. It's just that the ingrained prejudices up here still shock me at times. Particularly so in people who are so well educated and um, urbane, for want of a better word. I didn't grow up with that. Where I came from, religion was moot - we were all Irish, first and foremost.

                      Which brings me to another interesting point. It seems that the damaging fundamentalist Catholicism here, to which you allude, is actually quite a recent phenomenon, and came about during and after the famine in the mid 19th century. Ireland seems to have been re-evangelised at this time by the Roman Church, with huge spiritual congresses, clerical recruitment drives, and a real drive to own the soul of the native Irish.
                      Before that, it seems that the native Irish still had quite a liberal society, with the priestly class afforded no more power than they have today. Add in the ongoing struggle against the northern plantation, itself driven by the aforementioned evangelical puritanism, and the amount of social and political clout that Catholicism subsequently developed in the years leading up to the War of Independence, and the conditions were in place for the type of horrific abuses we saw here for much of the 20th century.

                      I suppose we should be grateful that it didn't last too long.
                      Last edited by gubu; 09-06-2017, 04:44 AM.
                      flip the phase

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        Originally posted by gubu View Post

                        It's a form of cultural brainwashing, unfortunately. Our Northern evangelicals are almost identical to those you have in the US, to my eyes. The inherent racism, homophobia, absolute surety in their own rightness etc. Add in a healthy dose of nationalist/imperialist jingoism, and the persecution complex brought about by the fact that civilised society has simply moved on, and it's a recipe for a truly reprehensible faction in public life, and in society in general.

                        Not that I'm lumping my therapist in with that. It's just that the ingrained prejudices up here still shock me at times. Particularly so in people who are so well educated and um, urbane, for want of a better word. I didn't grow up with that. Where I came from, religion was moot - we were all Irish, first and foremost.

                        Which brings me to another interesting point. It seems that the damaging fundamentalist Catholicism here, to which you allude, is actually quite a recent phenomenon, and came about during and after the famine in the mid 19th century. Ireland seems to have been re-evangelised at this time by the Roman Church, with huge spiritual congresses, clerical recruitment drives, and a real drive to own the soul of the native Irish.
                        Before that, it seems that the native Irish still had quite a liberal society, with the priestly class afforded no more power than they have today. Add in the ongoing struggle against the northern plantation, itself driven by the aforementioned evangelical puritanism, and the amount of social and political clout that Catholicism subsequently developed in the years leading up to the War of Independence, and the conditions were in place for the type of horrific abuses we saw here for much of the 20th century.

                        I suppose we should be grateful that it didn't last too long.

                        Comment


                        • gubu
                          gubu commented
                          Editing a comment
                          You can request a temp ban from the mods if you really need the time off that you say you do.

                        • MacFangus
                          MacFangus commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Nope! I'm good.

                      • #28
                        It's never gotten in my way. Religion is like a plague. Why would I go near it?
                        George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                        Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

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                        • #29
                          Originally posted by MacFangus View Post
                          Not a fan of religion, but I do believe in God. Because you're human, you're not going to be able to keep God's Commandments 100% of the time, but that's okay. Your sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ. Do your best, use good sense, and go enjoy your gift of life.
                          So you believe in the Christian God, to clarify.
                          What about all the other Gods? Is everyone else wrong? What makes you right? The culture you grew up in. Various cultures across the globe create their own religions and they create Gods for their religions.

                          It's a sham.
                          Last edited by Hoot Owl; 09-06-2017, 10:27 AM.
                          George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                          Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                          Comment


                          • #30
                            Originally posted by wallywanker View Post
                            i was raised catholic, but, thank god, it didn't take ...
                            Me too. I went part way through catechism. I used to listen to the lectures and wonder if any classmates were gullible enough to be duped by them.

                            I begged out and my Mom acquiesced. Bless her soul.
                            Last edited by Hoot Owl; 09-06-2017, 10:34 AM.
                            George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                            Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                            Comment













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