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  • Let us, once and for all...

    put aside the childish notion that the Civil War was not rooted in the issue of slavery. Or rather, while it is possible to say that from the Union perspective the war might have been fought the preservation of the union 1st and abolition of slavery a distant second, The Secession was, from the perspective of the seceding states, ENTIRELY about the institution of slavery and the preservation thereof.

    The Declaration of Causes makes this plain as day, and is indisputable. So when those who claim that the secession was about "states rights" they are technically correct, but they are incomplete - the secession was about states rights as pertaining specifically to the institution of slavery.

    http://www.civilwar.org/education/hi...nofcauses.html

    I highly recommend a reading of the above. For those who can't be bothered, a few highlights:

    Mississippi

    A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

    In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

    Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin...


    South Carolina

    ...The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

    This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

    The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

    The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation...

    Texas

    A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union.

    The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then *a free, sovereign and independent nation* [emphasis in the original], the annexation of the latter to the former, as one of the co-equal states thereof,

    The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

    Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

    The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slaveholding States...

    Last edited by Red Ant; 06-24-2015, 12:54 AM.
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

    -- Vaclav Havel

    The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

    -- Carl Sagan


    Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

    -- Joseph Brodsky

  • #2
    Georgia

    The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic. This hostile policy of our confederates has been pursued with every circumstance of aggravation which could arouse the passions and excite the hatred of our people, and has placed the two sections of the Union for many years past in the condition of virtual civil war. Our people, still attached to the Union from habit and national traditions, and averse to change, hoped that time, reason, and argument would bring, if not redress, at least exemption from further insults, injuries, and dangers. Recent events have fully dissipated all such hopes and demonstrated the necessity of separation...
    Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

    -- Vaclav Havel

    The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

    -- Carl Sagan


    Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

    -- Joseph Brodsky

    Comment


    • AJ6stringsting
      AJ6stringsting commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the Historical good read !!!!

  • #3
    Originally posted by Red Ant View Post
    put aside the childish notion that the Civil War was not rooted in the issue of slavery. Or rather, while it is possible to say that from the Union perspective the war might have been about the preservation of the union 1st and slavery a distant second, The Secession was, from the perspective of the seceding states, ENTIRELY about slavery and the preservation thereof.

    The Declaration of Causes makes this plain as day, and is indisputable.

    http://www.civilwar.org/education/hi...nofcauses.html

    I highly recommend a reading of the above. For those who can't be bothered, a few highlights:

    Mississippi

    A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

    In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

    Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin...


    South Carolina

    ...The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

    This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

    The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

    The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation...

    Texas

    A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union.

    The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then *a free, sovereign and independent nation* [emphasis in the original], the annexation of the latter to the former, as one of the co-equal states thereof,

    The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

    Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

    The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slaveholding States...

    Texas couldn't contribute too much to the war effort, due to the Comanche - Kiowa alliance.
    Confederates, Gen.Sul Ross, John Coffee Hays, Samuel H. Walker John Hunt Morgan and others marched through the Comancheria with disastrous results on too many occasions.
    Another neglected fact, that stated the Mexican American War, Santa Anna told American Immigrants, in then Mexico, to give up their slaves and the American settlers refused.
    Strange, that later the U.S. Government would accomplish that request.
    How many guitarists does it take to screw in a lightbulb ? Five , one to screw it in , hit the switch and four to sit around bragging how much better they could have done it !!!! 😱👹😲

    Comment


    • #4
      Good work but of course those with their own version of history will attempt to shift the current arguments back to the confederate flag itself and it's so called cultural history. What they fail to point out is that the original flag in 1861 looked more like an American flag.



      And the flag we see today is the Confederate "Battle Flag" chosen by Robert E. Lee and the Confederate army in 1863 which of course looks nothing like the original flag. The flag we see today is the "Battle Flag" which is representative of the Confederate Army's stance on the Civil War.



      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by AJ6stringsting View Post

        Texas couldn't contribute too much to the war effort, due to the Comanche - Kiowa alliance.
        Confederates, Gen.Sul Ross, John Coffee Hays, Samuel H. Walker John Hunt Morgan and others marched through the Comancheria with disastrous results on too many occasions.
        I'm not certain how the above pertains to the OP other than it being one of your pet subjects, but interesting none the less.
        Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

        -- Vaclav Havel

        The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

        -- Carl Sagan


        Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

        -- Joseph Brodsky

        Comment


        • Tom Hicks
          Tom Hicks commented
          Editing a comment
          One method for Texans who did not sympathize with the Confederacy and/or had Unionist sympathies to avoid conscription into military service was to join the Texas Rangers.

          East Texas was rich agricultural land and thus the bulk of the slaves were located in that region. Drier West Texas was predominantly cattle country with very few black slaves.

          The Hicks family in pre Civil War East Texas were non slaveholding farmers in Hopkins County.

        • thankyou
          thankyou commented
          Editing a comment
          I knew Dubya was involved somehow, but he still had to give up Sammy Sosa in the Battle of Improbable Draft Picks between the Texas Rangers and Reality.

      • #6
        that was so long ago

        that i put aside childish notions

        or thats wht i tell myself

        I miss mauser and robroy

        and the information they brought to the table

        i work with a dude named robert e lee

        he says there is 10,000 named as such

        GOOD LUCK TO US ALL !!)
        __________-------------------------------------__________________________---------------
        "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." ---Albert Einstein

        What is more liberal than this ?? )
        We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union ...

        Comment


        • #7
          Obviously you were fooled into thinking this by your indoctrination into revisionist history as a child in the American public school system!!!





          No, wait...


          Thanks for the research, Anton. I find the period fascinating from a historical and cultural point of view.
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Originally Posted by MattACaster : *Runs 2 blocks down the street to Guitar Center, grabs detuned Schecter off the wall, plugs into Line6 Spider and proceeds to bring teh brootalz*

          Comment


          • #8
            My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.
            -Abraham Lincoln, 1962
            Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.

            Comment


            • moogerfooger
              moogerfooger commented
              Editing a comment
              The south seceded because?

          • #9
            and why was the Union in danger of falling apart?

            Comment


            • #10



              While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

              Comment


              • #11
                Originally posted by GTRMAN View Post
                My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.

                -Abraham Lincoln, 1962


                Are you saying that in agreement with the OP's second sentence? The union had already banned slavery in the non-state territories, right? And the secessionists didn't like it, right? And the secessions began right when a Republican was elected president of the US, right?
                My band!:
                [URL="http://www.steelphantoms.com/"]www.steelphantoms.com/[/URL]
                my stage stuff:
                fender jimmie vaughan strat, korg dt-10, ts-9, keeley rat, thoroughly modded big muff, 4ms tremulus lune, eventide timefactor running stereo to a traynor bassmaster (w hotplate) and a fender HRD. Everything ('cept the TimeFactor and dt-10) is modded, with much help from folks at Harmony Central. Thanks everybody!

                Comment


                • #12
                  It was first and foremost rooted in money. Owning slaves was a very cost effective means for producing cotton. You think the rich plantation owners wanted to keep slaves because they enjoyed having that kind of power over people? Get a freakin' clue! It was about money, plain and simple.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by Belva View Post
                    It was first and foremost rooted in money. Owning slaves was a very cost effective means for producing cotton. You think the rich plantation owners wanted to keep slaves because they enjoyed having that kind of power over people? Get a freakin' clue! It was about money, plain and simple.


                    And... Money gives you power over people!!

                    oh wait... Citizens United hadn't been decided yet.
                    My band!:
                    [URL="http://www.steelphantoms.com/"]www.steelphantoms.com/[/URL]
                    my stage stuff:
                    fender jimmie vaughan strat, korg dt-10, ts-9, keeley rat, thoroughly modded big muff, 4ms tremulus lune, eventide timefactor running stereo to a traynor bassmaster (w hotplate) and a fender HRD. Everything ('cept the TimeFactor and dt-10) is modded, with much help from folks at Harmony Central. Thanks everybody!

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      I'm sure the southern plantation owners treated their slaves just like they would any other Caucasian hired help.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        The Republicans here keep trying to defend the flag as a symbol of states rights, states right to what? Slavery? The American flag is the symbol of a united states each with its own individual state government but protecting and granting equal rights to all of those in it.

                        Comment













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