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  • Studies: Is America the freest country in the World???

    There was an interesting scene in the premier episode of the luckluster tv show Newsroom, where the protagonist shouts at the right-wing tv journalist that the US is not "exceptional" in terms of freedom. Lets confirm the fact then. I'll list multiple studies involving "freedom" of various aspects and rank the first five country on the top, but also add where the US ranks...

     

    Freedom of trade (https://members.weforum.org/pdf/GETR10/GETR10-Overall-Rankings.pdf)

    1. Singapore

    2. Hong Kong (not a sovereign state)

    3. Denmark

    4. Sweden

    5. Switzerland

    ...

    19. United States

     

    Freedom of the Press (http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2011-2012,1043.html)

    1. Finland

    2. Norway

    3. Estonia

    4. Netherlands

    5. Austria

    ...

    47. United States

     

    "Economic Freedom" (consumer choice, voluntary exchange in markets, freedom to compete in markets, protection of property) (http://www.freetheworld.com/2012/EFW2012-complete.pdf)

    1. Hong Kong

    2. Singapore

    3. New Zealand

    4. Switzerland

    5. Australia

    ...

    18. United States

     

    Global Competitiveness (http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport_2012-13.pdf)

    1. Switzerland 

    2. Singapore

    3. Finland

    4. Sweden

    5. Netherlands

    ...

    7. United States

     

     

    It's remarkable that the so-called "socialist" europe ranks so high on freedom. I wonder why... :/

    Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky


    Whenever you hear anything said very confidently, the first thing that should come to mind is, wait a minute is that true?

  • #2
    In before all the conservatives who have never even traveled outside of the United States tell you those studies are conducted by foreign socialists who hate America and our freedom.
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    Comment


    • #3

      On an idividual level what is "freedom"?

      Wages stagnating over the years while prices keep rising and working hours upon hours to barely scrape by? Is that "freedom"?

       

       

      ---

      Comment


      • radomu
        radomu commented
        Editing a comment

        SHRED wrote:

        On an idividual level what is "freedom"?

        Wages stagnating over the years while prices keep rising and working hours upon hours to barely scrape by? Is that "freedom"?


        Yup, but these studies show the contrary. The one about economic freedom was conducted by a conference organised by Milton Friedman's gang.


    • #4
      how does the US rate when it comes to "freedom to kill"?
      WARNING: may contain traces of Cynicism and Sarcasm

      Comment


      • #5

        radomu wrote:

        There was an interesting scene in the premier episode of the luckluster tv show Newsroom, where the protagonist shouts at the right-wing tv journalist that the US is not "exceptional" in terms of freedom. Lets confirm the fact then. I'll list multiple studies involving "freedom" of various aspects and rank the first five country on the top, but also add where the US ranks...

         

        Freedom of trade (https://members.weforum.org/pdf/GETR10/GETR10-Overall-Rankings.pdf)

        1. Singapore

        2. Hong Kong (not a sovereign state)

        3. Denmark

        4. Sweden

        5. Switzerland

        ...

        19. United States

         

        Freedom of the Press (http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2011-2012,1043.html)

        1. Finland

        2. Norway

        3. Estonia

        4. Netherlands

        5. Austria

        ...

        47. United States

         

        "Economic Freedom" (consumer choice, voluntary exchange in markets, freedom to compete in markets, protection of property) (http://www.freetheworld.com/2012/EFW2012-complete.pdf)

        1. Hong Kong

        2. Singapore

        3. New Zealand

        4. Switzerland

        5. Australia

        ...

        18. United States

         

        Global Competitiveness (http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GlobalCompetitivenessReport_2012-13.pdf)

        1. Switzerland 

        2. Singapore

        3. Finland

        4. Sweden

        5. Netherlands

        ...

        7. United States

         

         

        It's remarkable that the so-called "socialist" europe ranks so high on freedom. I wonder why... :/


         

         

         

        1999 - "Economic Freedom" (consumer choice, voluntary exchange in markets, freedom to compete in markets, protection of property)

         

        USA  - #5

        http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publications/books/efw_2001/1EFW01ch1.pdf

         

         

        2001 - Global Competitiveness

         


        USA - #2

         

        http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/facts/DICE/Business-and-Financial-Markets/Enterprise-Environment/Performance/GCI_ranking_ranks/fileBinary/GCI_ranking_ranks.xls

         

        Comment


        • Snaporaz
          Snaporaz commented
          Editing a comment
          Why did the Google technical headquarter settle in Z

      • #6

        radomu wrote:

        There was an interesting scene in the premier episode of the luckluster tv show Newsroom, where the protagonist shouts at the right-wing tv journalist that the US is not "exceptional" in terms of freedom. Lets confirm the fact then. I'll list multiple studies involving "freedom" of various aspects and rank the first five country on the top, but also add where the US ranks...

        ... 

        It's remarkable that the so-called "socialist" europe ranks so high on freedom. I wonder why... :/



        It's difficult to understand your seeming need to convince people of the United States' "flaws."

        The United States is what it is:  To some, it's wonderful, to others, not so much.

        One of the better qualities is there are no walls stopping people from getting out if they don't like it And yet others are excited about no walls while they try to get in.


        Current global warming temperature trend: 0.05ºC per decade, plus or minus 0.1ºC (source: UN IPCC AR5) ...Yes, the error rate is higher than the estimated rate of change.

        "Anthropogenic global warming is a proposed theory whose basic mechanism is well understood, but whose magnitude is highly uncertain. The growing evidence that climate models are too sensitive to CO2 has implications for the attribution of late-20th-century warming and projections of 21st-century climate. If the recent warming hiatus is caused by natural variability, then this raises the question as to what extent the warming between 1975 and 2000 can also be explained by natural climate variability." --Dr. Judith Curry, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology

        Comment


        • Sloppy Santa
          Sloppy Santa commented
          Editing a comment

          rbstern wrote:

          radomu wrote:

          There was an interesting scene in the premier episode of the luckluster tv show Newsroom, where the protagonist shouts at the right-wing tv journalist that the US is not "exceptional" in terms of freedom. Lets confirm the fact then. I'll list multiple studies involving "freedom" of various aspects and rank the first five country on the top, but also add where the US ranks...

          ... 

          It's remarkable that the so-called "socialist" europe ranks so high on freedom. I wonder why... :/



          It's difficult to understand your seeming need to convince people of the United States' "flaws."

          The United States is what it is:  To some, it's wonderful, to others, not so much.

          One of the better qualities is there are no walls stopping people from getting out if they don't like it And yet others are excited about no walls while they try to get in.


           

          It's probably a reaction to the many many Americans who think and say that the US is the greatest country on earth.


      • #7
        Sloppy Santa wrote:
        rbstern wrote:
        radomu wrote:

        There was an interesting scene in the premier episode of the luckluster tv show Newsroom, where the protagonist shouts at the right-wing tv journalist that the US is not "exceptional" in terms of freedom. Lets confirm the fact then. I'll list multiple studies involving "freedom" of various aspects and rank the first five country on the top, but also add where the US ranks...

        ... 

        It's remarkable that the so-called "socialist" europe ranks so high on freedom. I wonder why... :/


        It's difficult to understand your seeming need to convince people of the United States' "flaws."

        The United States is what it is:  To some, it's wonderful, to others, not so much.

        One of the better qualities is there are no walls stopping people from getting out if they don't like it And yet others are excited about no walls while they try to get in.

         

        It's probably a reaction to the many many Americans who think and say that the US is the greatest country on earth.

        this

        rbstern wrote:
        radomu wrote:

        There was an interesting scene in the premier episode of the luckluster tv show Newsroom, where the protagonist shouts at the right-wing tv journalist that the US is not "exceptional" in terms of freedom. Lets confirm the fact then. I'll list multiple studies involving "freedom" of various aspects and rank the first five country on the top, but also add where the US ranks...

        ... 

        It's remarkable that the so-called "socialist" europe ranks so high on freedom. I wonder why... :/


        It's difficult to understand your seeming need to convince people of the United States' "flaws."

        The United States is what it is:  To some, it's wonderful, to others, not so much.

        One of the better qualities is there are no walls stopping people from getting out if they don't like it And yet others are excited about no walls while they try to get in.

        You can say the exact same thing for the majority of the liberal democracies in the world. I don't feel restricted to my "walls", whatever you mean by that, in Japan, Britain, or Canada. Actually, I would rather stay home as much as possible in a bad part of America where there is crime.

        Just Me wrote:
        radomu wrote:
        Just Me wrote:

        no, I'm am just thinking about most of the major innovations throughout history have come from the US.

         

        There is a long list of innovations and breakthroughs coming from the United States - from machinery, manufacturing, technology, science, communication, ..The list goes on.

        You're telling me that a country that has been only in existence for just over two centuries have provided the most of the major innovations throughout the whole of history???? Sir, what in the world are you smoking????

        actuall, I was tihnking more along the lines of 1700 thru 1950 - so yeah, just a small chunk in terms of history. More like Industrial revolution stuff - my bad.

        Well, okay then. But even in that case I'm not sure if that's even true, that the US have provided most of the innovations. You need actual evidence for these kinds of claims.

         

        Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky


        Whenever you hear anything said very confidently, the first thing that should come to mind is, wait a minute is that true?

        Comment


        • rbstern
          rbstern commented
          Editing a comment

          radomu wrote:

          You can say the exact same thing for the majority of the liberal democracies in the world. I don't feel restricted to my "walls", whatever you mean by that, in Japan, Britain, or Canada. Actually, I would rather stay home as much as possible in a bad part of America where there is crime.

           When a liberal democracy has a 245 year track record and hasn't gone authoritarian in that amount of time, please get back to me.


      • #8
        Actually one of the gulf states are now ahead in obesity...
        Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky


        Whenever you hear anything said very confidently, the first thing that should come to mind is, wait a minute is that true?

        Comment


        • #9
          Watch it...rbsterns freeier coz hes got guns lol

          Comment


          • #10
            Why attack your opponent's background when you fail at even trying to respond to his arguments?
            Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky


            Whenever you hear anything said very confidently, the first thing that should come to mind is, wait a minute is that true?

            Comment


            • #11
              Rudy, the final point is probably only true among comparison with other developed nations.
              Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky


              Whenever you hear anything said very confidently, the first thing that should come to mind is, wait a minute is that true?

              Comment


              • Snaporaz
                Snaporaz commented
                Editing a comment

                radomu wrote:
                Rudy, the final point is probably only true among comparison with other developed nations.

                 

                I was talking only in comparison with San Marino, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Gurnesey and Koneuwe.

                Z


            • #12
              The case for either way can be made. An outside MIGHT have a much more critical and an objective perspective of another society, especially when they don't have to deal with the nationalist indoctrinations that Americans and other national ties are fed.

              The very reason that you find my analysis of American race relations disturbing is because it contradicts wih the self servings discourse that you live under.

              Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky


              Whenever you hear anything said very confidently, the first thing that should come to mind is, wait a minute is that true?

              Comment


              • Snaporaz
                Snaporaz commented
                Editing a comment
                You can be a rank insider as well as a rank outsider.

                Most of the forumites here are neither of that, but simply abused meat.

              • Ed
                Ed commented
                Editing a comment

                radomu wrote:
                The case for either way can be made. An outside MIGHT have a much more critical and an objective perspective of another society, especially when they don't have to deal with the nationalist indoctrinations that Americans and other national ties are fed.

                The very reason that you find my analysis of American race relations disturbing is because it contradicts wih the self servings discourse that you live under.


                Nationalistic indoctrination aside, the fact is that a man's image of the country he grew up in might be quite different from his wife's image, despite growing up as neighbors together. And both could be correct.

                They could work together, but take completely different routes to work and back. They can enjoy the same foods, but shop at different markets. They can have the same values, but vote for different representatives. They can attend the same church and have completely different moral values. They can listen to the same song and come away with two completely different interpretations.

                So how can one person say "I live in the states so I know about America"? Only through self-centred ignorance can such a statement be made.

                It is that old "ware ware nihonjiin" (we Japanese) chestnut that you have probably come to know and despise all over again.

                And then, of course, there is the indoctrination through education, TV, friends, family, more TV, ads along the highway, along with other idiots that they have come in contact with that further cloud a person's ability to objectively see things as they are. Taken altogether, I think it is fair to say that a tourist can easily see more than the locals can. Not always, of course, but it makes it much easier because they are not saddled with familiarity. A tourist can see a shop that a local never knew existed, take a street that a local has never once driven, and see freedoms that the locals never knew existed. Kinda like Japanese and guns. They really don't see the need to have guns, so of course they think the entire idea is as silly as... gay marriage.


            • #13
              Precisely. One of he most important apects of Nationalism is that within a nation there are nationalismS. With heightening inequality, the America that a black family in Detroit lives in is a different America from the America of an upper middle class white family.
              Originally Posted by Noam Chomsky


              Whenever you hear anything said very confidently, the first thing that should come to mind is, wait a minute is that true?

              Comment



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