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A reason to oppose immigration reform.

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  • A reason to oppose immigration reform.

    Overhauling immigration is complicated and controversial. There's been a proposed increase in H-1B visas. Those are the visas that allow companies to bring in skilled foreign workers for jobs that can't be filled by Americans.

    Now a look at one part of the immigration debate in Congress: a proposed increase in H1-B visas. Those are the visas that allow companies to hire skilled foreign workers. As NPR's Martin Kaste reports in today's business bottom line, offering more of those visas is controversial, especially among American tech workers of a certain age.

    You hire the alien first, and then you manipulate the regulatory system to prove that you can't find an American.

    Bruce Morrison shaped the H1-B system as chairman of the House Immigration Committee two decades ago. Now, as an immigration lawyer and a lobbyist, he says employers have become too fond of the temporary foreign workers.

    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, wages for computer programmers have stagnated. In fact, between 2001 and 2011, the mean hourly wage didn't even keep up with inflation. It's still less than $40. Microsoft says there have been some healthy increases recently - not reflected in the government numbers. But for critics of the system, it's apparent that the H1-B visas work as a kind of pressure-release valve on pay. Matloff also thinks the visas let companies avoid hiring older programmers.
    Source: http://www.npr.org/2013/02/19/172373123/older-tech-workers-oppose-increasing-h-1b-visas

    I thought that this was an interesting article, though I have only taken snippets above.

    One of the reasons to oppose immigration reform is not, as many would like to put it, based on racism.  Rather one very good reason to oppose immigration reform is because many larger companies do not hire more experienced or older workers in favor of less experience and younger workers of foreign decent that they can treat as indentured servants at a lesser pay than a more experience person would require.

    One of the companies featured in this NPR report is the very liberal Microsoft Corporation.  Microsoft is again requesting that the congress allow more H-1B visa's because of a storage of programmers in the talent pool.  However, it appears from this NPR report that there is no shortage of workers.  Rather there is a shortage of desire to hire the workers that are qualified and available, but that would also demand an appropriate wage as well as refusing to submit to slave like conditions.

    Looking aside at the illegal aliens desire to be legalized, one must wonder just why the American companies are so intent and desirous of immigration reform that is detrimental to the American citizen and worker.  One must also ask the question of whether this is also the reason that many business are now demanding that illegal aliens be given citizenship, or a path to citizenship.  Is the reason to insure a base of low pay workers.  I believe it is.


  • #2

    IMO, the proper way to reform immigration is to eliminate or reduce it, not to increase it.

    Comment


    • Hoppy Shimko
      Hoppy Shimko commented
      Editing a comment
      i would close all the borders

  • #3

    normh wrote:

    I thought that this was an interesting article, though I have only taken snippets above.

    One of the reasons to oppose immigration reform is not, as many would like to put it, based on racism.  Rather one very good reason to oppose immigration reform is because many larger companies do not hire more experienced or older workers in favor of less experience and younger workers of foreign decent that they can treat as indentured servants at a lesser pay than a more experience person would require.

    One of the companies featured in this NPR report is the very liberal Microsoft Corporation.  Microsoft is again requesting that the congress allow more H-1B visa's because of a storage of programmers in the talent pool.  However, it appears from this NPR report that there is no shortage of workers.  Rather there is a shortage of desire to hire the workers that are qualified and available, but that would also demand an appropriate wage as well as refusing to submit to slave like conditions.

    Looking aside at the illegal aliens desire to be legalized, one must wonder just why the American companies are so intent and desirous of immigration reform that is detrimental to the American citizen and worker.  One must also ask the question of whether this is also the reason that many business are now demanding that illegal aliens be given citizenship, or a path to citizenship.  Is the reason to insure a base of low pay workers.  I believe it is.


    Oh come on Norm, it's not "slave like conditions". That's nonsense. And the companies motive doesn't have to be questioned. We know it's about making a bigger profit. How is this not obvious.


    But I have a question for you: Essentially this isn't about trying to find less skilled labour, businesses can find that here in the US. This is about finding lower costs. So other than a human physically being on US soil, what's the difference between outsourcing offshore and allowing H1Bs? At least now a person earning on an H1B will spend his earnings in the US. Offshored labour? Not so much...


    So are you also in favour of changing legislation in order to prevent services to be performed offshore for US companies, or would you apply this only to immigration?

    Comment


    • normh
      normh commented
      Editing a comment

      Sloppy Santa wrote:

      Oh come on Norm, it's not "slave like conditions". That's nonsense. And the companies motive doesn't have to be questioned. We know it's about making a bigger profit. How is this not obvious.

      But I have a question for you: Essentially this isn't about trying to find less skilled labour, businesses can find that here in the US. This is about finding lower costs. So other than a human physically being on US soil, what's the difference between outsourcing offshore and allowing H1Bs? At least now a person earning on an H1B will spend his earnings in the US. Offshored labour? Not so much...

      So are you also in favour of changing legislation in order to prevent services to be performed offshore for US companies, or would you apply this only to immigration?


      Allow me to return your question with another question that will hopefully answer your question (not being deliberately circular)

      How much would it cost to move all of the M$ facilities to Pakistan, India, and China?  How much would it cost for the same for Intel?  How much would they lose?

      Partially answering now.  Because the cost would be so great, why would the companies want to move to another country if they can manipulate the political system of this country at a far lesser cost.

      How many of the trade secrets of M$ or Intel, or many other companies, are those companies willing to give to a new host country (China as an example).

      As far as slave conditions, you need to look into it further.  While the H1-B requirements forbid it, the foreign visa worker is often paid less than half of what an American citizen would have to be paid.  Even though an American worker would probably balk at work hours over 40, the foreign worker whose visa is tied to company satisfaction is often required to work 60 - 80 hour weeks.  80 hours is pushing the top end, but it is not unheard of; 60 hour weeks is very common.

      I agree, the bottom line is the pursuit of the dollar.

       

      Edit add:

      I missed the question earlier, bit will answer it here.  I am in favor of allowing American companies to conduct business offshore if they are willing to pay three times the tax on each dollar earned in this country, or alternatively are willing to pay tax in this country on the funds earned in other countries.



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