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Non-religious justifications for not allowing marriage equality?

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  • Non-religious justifications for not allowing marriage equality?

    I'm wondering, is there any reasonsable explanation anyone can give that is not based on religious justifications? Over whelmingly the debate over gay marriage rights seems to be divided among religious lines.

    Also, note to the fundies: what I do with my penis is none of anyone else's business.
    Originally Posted by Motorik


    [Prog rockers are] all babes. It's like the Miss World contest, but with sudden changes of time-signature.

  • #2
    Gay marriage should be passed quickly so we can focus on real issues. There's no reason not to.
    Information is not knowledge
    Knowledge is not wisdom
    Wisdom is not truth
    Truth is not beauty
    Beauty is not love
    Love is not music.
    Music Is The Best.

    - Frank Zappa

    Comment


    • HKSblade2
      HKSblade2 commented
      Editing a comment

      photon9 wrote:
      Gay marriage should be passed quickly so we can focus on real issues. There's no reason not to.

      True, then we can get on to Incestuous marriage discussions.

      Personally, I don't care about if gays want to marry. I will say it opens the door for the other types of marriages too. If it's about "individual" rights, it will have to include incest. Imagine how most will feel about that. I read an article while at the airport about thousands of people waiting for the marriage definition to be more "undefined" individual freedom based than that of actual definition of marital parties.


  • #3

    PhilGould wrote:

    Also, note to the fundies: what I do with my penis is none of anyone else's business.

    depends on what your doing with it I suppose .. some penile activities are universally frowned upon 

    ┌∩┐(â—•_â—•)┌∠©â”

    Comment


    • PhilGould
      PhilGould commented
      Editing a comment
      I should have added 'with another consenting adult' to that.

  • #4
    According to Ed's logic Marriage is about raising a family so people who do not want children should not be allowed to marry
    "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."“Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money.”― George Carlin"The founding fathers were well aware of rapid firing capabilities by the indians." - NormH

    Comment


    • larry50
      larry50 commented
      Editing a comment

      LithiumZero wrote:
      According to Ed's logic Marriage is about raising a family so people who do not want children should not be allowed to marry

      He totally fails or refuses to grasp this defect in reasoning. 


  • #5
    But it's not about raising a family. It's about two people. The family part may or may not come later whether they are a heterosexual or homosexual couple.
    "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."“Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money.”― George Carlin"The founding fathers were well aware of rapid firing capabilities by the indians." - NormH

    Comment


    • #6
      Does a couple that have no children or plans to do so benefit? Your logic is flawed.
      "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."“Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money.”― George Carlin"The founding fathers were well aware of rapid firing capabilities by the indians." - NormH

      Comment


      • #7
        Ed didn't think this trough before posting so now he'll have to double down. Lulz
        "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."“Conservatives say if you don't give the rich more money, they will lose their incentive to invest. As for the poor, they tell us they've lost all incentive because we've given them too much money.”― George Carlin"The founding fathers were well aware of rapid firing capabilities by the indians." - NormH

        Comment


        • Just Me
          Just Me commented
          Editing a comment

          LithiumZero wrote:
          Ed didn't think this trough before posting so now he'll have to double down. Lulz

           

          Hilarious to watch.

           


      • #8
        Ed:
        In America, this is true. Step outside of the states and you will find that John and Jerry, despite how much in love they are, or how shiny their wedding rings are, are not considered "married".
        Well, in some european countries like Canada, they will be. But not here, not in Korea, not in China, not in Malaysia, not in Ghana, not in Venezuela.
        They're just two gay guys saying they are married. Cute, but no cigar.
        -------------------------
        So we should adjust or not adjust our laws based on what other countries do? That is absurd.
        Information is not knowledge
        Knowledge is not wisdom
        Wisdom is not truth
        Truth is not beauty
        Beauty is not love
        Love is not music.
        Music Is The Best.

        - Frank Zappa

        Comment


        • #9

          PhilGould wrote:
          I'm wondering, is there any reasonsable explanation anyone can give that is not based on religious justifications? Over whelmingly the debate over gay marriage rights seems to be divided among religious lines.

          Also, note to the fundies: what I do with my penis is none of anyone else's business.

          fine with me. 

          where does marriage originate? 

          what is the reason they want to get "married?"

           

          Comment


          • Fred Fartboski
            Fred Fartboski commented
            Editing a comment

            Entertaining thread. Watching Oyaji get pwnd over and over again.

            He almost reminds me of strato.

             


        • #10

          PhilGould wrote:
          I'm wondering, is there any reasonsable explanation anyone can give that is not based on religious justifications? Over whelmingly the debate over gay marriage rights seems to be divided among religious lines.

          Also, note to the fundies: what I do with my penis is none of anyone else's business.

          Untill they are caught, republicans share this view also.

          _________________________________________

          “True unalienable rights do not require one to trample other unalienable rights.”
          ―J.S.B. Morse

          Comment


          • #11

            PhilGould wrote:
            I'm wondering, is there any reasonsable explanation anyone can give that is not based on religious justifications? Over whelmingly the debate over gay marriage rights seems to be divided among religious lines.

            Also, note to the fundies: what I do with my penis is none of anyone else's business.

            I like the way to frame the question to presume your answer.  To me it's kind of like asking if black and white color TVs should be allowed.

            You can't really allow what doesn't exist, Phil.  One is either straight or gay, and if one wants to be out of the closet as gay, then don't role play as heterosexuals, just be gay.  If you want to be married, you still want to be straight, so let's not ask all society to jump through hoops to support your conflicted emotions.

             

             

            Comment


            • Gromit
              Gromit commented
              Editing a comment

              Used2BMarkoh wrote:

              PhilGould wrote:
              I'm wondering, is there any reasonsable explanation anyone can give that is not based on religious justifications? Over whelmingly the debate over gay marriage rights seems to be divided among religious lines.

              Also, note to the fundies: what I do with my penis is none of anyone else's business.

              I like the way to frame the question to presume your answer.  To me it's kind of like asking if black and white color TVs should be allowed.

              You can't really allow what doesn't exist, Phil.  One is either straight or gay, and if one wants to be out of the closet as gay, then don't role play as heterosexuals, just be gay.  If you want to be married, you still want to be straight, so let's not ask all society to jump through hoops to support your conflicted emotions.

               

               


              I see what you're saying, but it's rather a closed argument.  You're saying that currently marriage is the preserve of heterosexuals (not strictly true, but I see what you mean), so anyone who is homosexual and wants to marry their partner is actually wishing to be heterosexual. 

              Well, no, not really. A person wishing to marry their partner wishes to make a lifetime commitment to that partner. It's really irrelevant whether that partner is of the same sex or not.

               

              Let's accept as obvious the fact that couples, both gay and heterosexual, feel the need to marry.  Your assertion that gay couples only want to marry because they want to feel heterosexual is akin to Freud's rather specious concept if penis envy.  It assumes that gay couples feel themselves to be inferior to heterosexual couples.  I would suggest that instead, gay couples realize that the law treats them as inferior, and rightly view this discrimination as wrong and unacceptable.

              I completely understand that your view of Christianity tells you that homosexuality is wrong per se, but I would ask you please to put that view to one side for a moment and address the thread topic, which is whether or not there is a non-religious reason to deny marriage equality.


            • PhilGould
              PhilGould commented
              Editing a comment

              Used2BMarkoh wrote:

              PhilGould wrote:
              I'm wondering, is there any reasonsable explanation anyone can give that is not based on religious justifications? Over whelmingly the debate over gay marriage rights seems to be divided among religious lines.

              Also, note to the fundies: what I do with my penis is none of anyone else's business.

              You can't really allow what doesn't exist, Phil.  One is either straight or gay, and if one wants to be out of the closet as gay, then don't role play as heterosexuals, just be gay.  If you want to be married, you still want to be straight, so let's not ask all society to jump through hoops to support your conflicted emotions.


              As a gay man I have close to no desire to be heterosexual, I'm happy the way I am, as are probably all the gay men and women I've met. It's nothing to do with 'playing' at being heterosexual. It's about wanting to show my committment to someone I love, and gaining equal freedoms and rights from that commitment. The fact of my partner being the same sex to me is as irrelevant to most people as skin colour/ethnicity or anything else for that matter.

               Love is love. It's not about what's in your pants, but what's in your hearts.


          • #12
            Markoh:
            marriage is about kids, about the continuation of the species.
            -------------
            Marriage is not required for procreation or raising children.
            Information is not knowledge
            Knowledge is not wisdom
            Wisdom is not truth
            Truth is not beauty
            Beauty is not love
            Love is not music.
            Music Is The Best.

            - Frank Zappa

            Comment


            • PhilGould
              PhilGould commented
              Editing a comment

              photon9 wrote:
              Markoh:
              marriage is about kids, about the continuation of the species.
              -------------
              Marriage is not required for procreation or raising children.

              True, plus the repeated fact that marriages can exist without procreation or even sex.


          • #13
            PhilGould:
            True, plus the repeated fact that marriages can exist without procreation or even sex.
            ---------------
            Yup.... Insert marriage ruins sex joke here!
            Information is not knowledge
            Knowledge is not wisdom
            Wisdom is not truth
            Truth is not beauty
            Beauty is not love
            Love is not music.
            Music Is The Best.

            - Frank Zappa

            Comment


            • #14
              Markoh:
              You know what? I'm just no going to put up with the bigotry of you god haters today. You obviously are completely blinded and cannot be a bit rational, so forget it. What kind of an idiot would even bother talking to a bigot anyway? Arggghhhh.
              ------------------
              Buh-Bye!
              Information is not knowledge
              Knowledge is not wisdom
              Wisdom is not truth
              Truth is not beauty
              Beauty is not love
              Love is not music.
              Music Is The Best.

              - Frank Zappa

              Comment


              • #15

                Non-religious reasons for opposing gay marriage?

                - Can't have kids? Adoption or invitro-fertilization.

                - Gays can't sustain long-term relationships and maintain a stable home environment? False.  To be fair, 50\% of straights can't either.

                - Gay parents will raise gay kids? Not necessarily, the studies haven't come in but I know several hetero children of gay couples.  Anecdote doesn't equal data but that one appears to be crushed.  However, children of gay parents tend to do better in school and have less behavioural issues than children of straight parents.

                 

                Those are the only ones I can think of, off-hand.  Anyone got anything else?

                Also . . .

                 

                venn diagram of gay marriage

                Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I'm married . . . to a female.  :robotwink:

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