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OT: Eddie Van Halen in hindsight

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  • OT: Eddie Van Halen in hindsight

    Overrated.

    One trick pony.

    Questionable tone.

    Influenced the wrong people.

    Doesn't stand the test of time.

     

    I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


  • #2
    Ability to play guitar and keys is "one trick"?

    Comment


    • Daryl Flynn
      Daryl Flynn commented
      Editing a comment

      Another Brick wrote:
      Ability to play guitar and keys is "one trick"?

      He has one trick on the guitar. 

      Wanky speed and a squeelie note as accent.


  • #3

    Daryl Flynn wrote:

    Overrated.

    One trick pony.

    Questionable tone.

    Influenced the wrong people.

    Doesn't stand the test of time.

     

    I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


    Although IMO Page had a wider range of writing ability and tone usage, EVH was definitely not just a one-trick player. Many think of his tapping, fast picking ability, and Floyd'd whammy usage, but IMO his rhythm playing was the best part of his music. He could tear up an acoustic or electric. And I'm not sure how you can say it doesn't stand the test of time; his playing worked so well with the tones he got that people still try to chase it through elusive gear quests and tone mods.

    I prefer Page's music, overall, but EVH has been deserving of a lot of the props he got IMO.

    __________________________________________________ ________
    Great transactions: -Juggernaut-, Beergoblin, Boris the Blade, Guttermouth, Tubesteakfortone, thriftyshirt, craftswitch, negative theory, and dethmetalanimal

    Comment


    • Daryl Flynn
      Daryl Flynn commented
      Editing a comment

      rushtallica wrote:

      Daryl Flynn wrote:

      Overrated.

      One trick pony.

      Questionable tone.

      Influenced the wrong people.

      Doesn't stand the test of time.

       

      I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


      Although IMO Page had a wider range of writing ability and tone usage, EVH was definitely not just a one-trick player. Many think of his tapping, fast picking ability, and Floyd'd whammy usage, but IMO his rhythm playing was the best part of his music. He could tear up an acoustic or electric. And I'm not sure how you can say it doesn't stand the test of time; his playing worked so well with the tones he got that people still try to chase it through elusive gear quests and tone mods.

      I prefer Page's music, overall, but EVH has been deserving of a lot of the props he got IMO.


      I don't want to overly bash Eddie, but his riffs are pretty weak compared to Page's. He doesn't really have a classic riff like Whole Lotta Love.

      He gets props for changing guitar playing, but I don't think he changed it for the better. That tapping thing was so annoying in the 80s. My guitar player did it all the time. What a wanker.


    • arcadesonfire
      arcadesonfire commented
      Editing a comment

      rushtallica wrote:

      Daryl Flynn wrote:

      Overrated.

      One trick pony.

      Questionable tone.

      Influenced the wrong people.

      Doesn't stand the test of time.

       

      I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


      Although IMO Page had a wider range of writing ability and tone usage, EVH was definitely not just a one-trick player. Many think of his tapping, fast picking ability, and Floyd'd whammy usage, but IMO his rhythm playing was the best part of his music. He could tear up an acoustic or electric. And I'm not sure how you can say it doesn't stand the test of time; his playing worked so well with the tones he got that people still try to chase it through elusive gear quests and tone mods.

      I prefer Page's music, overall, but EVH has been deserving of a lot of the props he got IMO.


      I dunno about the best, but it is a huge element. To me, it's a combination of the gear and his attack. His attack is beautiful on rhythm stuff.


      The gear counts for sure, but the tone is in the fingers. I think this shines through with Page too, at least live. Even though i thoroughly admire Zep's albums, they just don't do it for me. The guitar sounds are usually eq'd too much or something... BUT the live recordings, such as Live at the BBC, totally prove Page's tone. Again, i think it's the strong attack and the sustain.


      As for EVH, the rhythm line at the end of "Jump" is just as beautiful and memorable as anything else, to me at least.

      Anyone who listens to Fair Warning all the way through and says EVH is a one-trick pony is nutso.

      Also, he has thoroughly influenced my playing, and my music is nothing like VH. Check out my band's site and see!!


    • Kardula
      Kardula commented
      Editing a comment

      rushtallica wrote:

      IMO his rhythm playing was the best part of his music.

      Anyone who knows his playing agrees with this. He was in a single guitarist band and at no point did the rythm section become underwhelming.


  • #4

    Daryl Flynn wrote:

    Overrated.

    One trick pony.

    Questionable tone.

    Influenced the wrong people.

    Doesn't stand the test of time.

     

    I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


    No actual guitar player would question his tone, let alone his abilites. .5 on this troll, Mr vagabond 'appeaser'.

    Stumblin' thru da ghost town.....

    Comment


    • rushtallica
      rushtallica commented
      Editing a comment

      Going a bit off track, but Joe Bonamassa's band put together one of the few Zep covers I dig despite it getting off into some bluesy shred. 8)


    • Daryl Flynn
      Daryl Flynn commented
      Editing a comment

      DesertDirtDog wrote:

      Daryl Flynn wrote:

      Overrated.

      One trick pony.

      Questionable tone.

      Influenced the wrong people.

      Doesn't stand the test of time.

       

      I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


      No actual guitar player would question his tone, let alone his abilites. .5 on this troll, Mr vagabond 'appeaser'.


      lol @ EVH fan boi

      Do you stripe your guitar?

      DDD: "Knapsacks get me hot"


    • Ed
      Ed commented
      Editing a comment
      Disagree. Great rhythm playing, tone, and excellent solos are his trademark.

      And its not right to compare van halen to led zep. Van Halen is the kind of band that will make you want to order another shot and a beer. Led Zep is an event that involves a lot of brown acid.

  • #5

    Daryl Flynn wrote:

    Overrated.

    One trick pony.

    Questionable tone.

    Influenced the wrong people.

    Doesn't stand the test of time.

     

    I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


    We're gonna have to part ways on this one.

    Try just listening to Eddie's rhythm playing. There's always something interesting going in it, unlike most typical rock chugging. To me Eddie is the Platonic ideal of rock guitar. They should probably try to clone him, but I suppose that sort of thing tends to go horribly, horribly wrong.




    While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

    Comment


    • jhall
      jhall commented
      Editing a comment

      Opposite Day wrote:

      Daryl Flynn wrote:

      Overrated.

      One trick pony.

      Questionable tone.

      Influenced the wrong people.

      Doesn't stand the test of time.

       

      I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


      We're gonna have to part ways on this one.

      Try just listening to Eddie's rhythm playing. There's always something interesting going in it, unlike most typical rock chugging. To me Eddie is the Platonic ideal of rock guitar. They should probably try to clone him, but I suppose that sort of thing tends to go horribly, horribly wrong.


      I agree here.  VH's Rythm playing is top notch.  Ihave always found most of his lead playing to be too disjunct with some exceptions (Hot For Teacher). Byt his rythms are really really good and there is some timing and syncopation magic going on there too.  Love 'em both and would have to give Pagey an edge there for his body of work and overall influence on popular music but Eddie is a master of the musical hook and he can play the hell out of a guitar.  I would consider Van Halen a "lightweight" band compared to Led Zep and I don't mean that in a bad way.  I've always thought of VHs music to be kind of manic.


    • onelife
      onelife commented
      Editing a comment

      Opposite Day wrote:

      Try just listening to Eddie's rhythm playing. There's always something interesting going in it, unlike most typical rock chugging. To me Eddie is the Platonic ideal of rock guitar. They should probably try to clone him, but I suppose that sort of thing tends to go horribly, horribly wrong.


      When I was in the house band of a showbar on the east coast during the mid 80s, every second feature band that came to town had a clone. Something had indeed gone horribly wrong.

      I got so tired of the Van Halen thing I forgot that Eddie was such a good player until one night when his wife was hosting SNL and he came out for a surprise performance.


  • #6
    EVH and Hendrix influenced electric guitar waaay more than that hack Page. How many guys went copied EVH's tricks? Tons, because he kicked ass. How many guys went and tried to play with a bow? Hardly anyone, because it's a stupid idea and sounds like ****************.

    I like hearing a few Zeppelin tunes, as long as that whiny **************** Plant isn't singing. Talk about starting horrible trends; I'd rather some lame tapping then another whiny falsetto screech.

    Comment


    • #7
      I'm never going to willingly put on a VH record, but I can appreciate Eddie's craft much more now than I could when those early albums were coming out - I flat out hated that music when it was new. As someone said, listen to Eddie's comping - he almost makes that plodding, pedestrian rhythm section sound good!

      I'm not sure where the LZ comparison comes in - apples and oranges to me. That being said, with LZ it's the opposite of VH - an absolutely stunning Rick rhythm section making Pagey sound good. Of course Pagey was a brilliant arranger and producer, which also really helped Page sound good

      And with Hendrix it was Jimi and Mitch trying to make the bass sound good
      Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

      -- Vaclav Havel

      The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

      -- Carl Sagan


      Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

      -- Joseph Brodsky

      Comment


      • Zig al-din
        Zig al-din commented
        Editing a comment

        Red Ant wrote:
        I'm never going to willingly put on a VH record, but I can appreciate Eddie's craft much more now than I could when those early albums were coming out - I flat out hated that music when it was new. As someone said, listen to Eddie's comping - he almost makes that plodding, pedestrian rhythm section sound good!

        I'm not sure where the LZ comparison comes in - apples and oranges to me. That being said, with LZ it's the opposite of VH - an absolutely stunning Rick rhythm section making Pagey sound good. Of course Pagey was a brilliant arranger and producer, which also really helped Page sound good

        And with Hendrix it was Jimi and Mitch trying to make the bass sound good

         

        That's true! I was never sure how Noel Redding got or kept that gig. If they had had John Paul Jones, or someone with some R&B feel,,THAT would have been the thang! 


      • Daryl Flynn
        Daryl Flynn commented
        Editing a comment

        Red Ant wrote:
        I'm never going to willingly put on a VH record, but I can appreciate Eddie's craft much more now than I could when those early albums were coming out - I flat out hated that music when it was new. As someone said, listen to Eddie's comping - he almost makes that plodding, pedestrian rhythm section sound good!

        I'm not sure where the LZ comparison comes in - apples and oranges to me. That being said, with LZ it's the opposite of VH - an absolutely stunning Rick rhythm section making Pagey sound good. Of course Pagey was a brilliant arranger and producer, which also really helped Page sound good

        And with Hendrix it was Jimi and Mitch trying to make the bass sound good

        Yeah, Noel Redding was a dull player.


      • *MURPHY
        *MURPHY commented
        Editing a comment

        Red Ant wrote:
        I'm never going to willingly put on a VH record, but I can appreciate Eddie's craft much more now than I could when those early albums were coming out - I flat out hated that music when it was new. As someone said, listen to Eddie's comping - he almost makes that plodding, pedestrian rhythm section sound good!

        I'm not sure where the LZ comparison comes in - apples and oranges to me. That being said, with LZ it's the opposite of VH - an absolutely stunning Rick rhythm section making Pagey sound good. Of course Pagey was a brilliant arranger and producer, which also really helped Page sound good

        And with Hendrix it was Jimi and Mitch trying to make the bass sound good

         

        If the rhythm section in VH wasn't

    • #8
      I didn't ever see Page as a great guitar player. I see him as a great writer and producer. Frankly, he's a very sloppy player playing his own iconic material.
      EVH is the opposite - a great player whose writing and producing chops are questionable. Heck, the first VH album had a bunch of pop cover tunes, with the only 'meat' being Eddie's rhythm playing and a quick flashy lead ( which was groundbreaking at the time). The band's songs, IMO, were generally just a 3:30 buffer around a :20 guitar solo....
      "The historical experience of socialist countries has sadly demonstrated that collectivism does not do away with alienation but rather increases it, adding to it a lack of basic necessities and economic inefficiency." ------------------ Pope John Paul II

      Comment


      • #9

        Daryl Flynn wrote:

        Overrated.

        One trick pony.

        Questionable tone.

        Influenced the wrong people.

        Doesn't stand the test of time.

         

        I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


        Daryl Flynn:

        Overrated.

        One trick pony.

        Questionable tone.

        Influenced the wrong people.

        Doesn't stand the test of time.

         

         

         

         

        _________________________________________

        “True unalienable rights do not require one to trample other unalienable rights.”
        ―J.S.B. Morse

        Comment


        • #10

          Well I'm really not a fan of his nor his music, but I think he filled a niche and opened the door for many new guitarist. he made a ton of money, and I bet spent most of it on Booze and Groopies. The rest he gave to Valerie.  As a jazz guitarist I don't do much high volume playing any more, when I was a kid I used to push a Super Reverb to it's limit. I like lower volume and a clean guitar better now days.  When I was in High School about the hottest guitarist were guys like Beck, Clapton and Hendrix, their music seems fresh and well done even after all these years. I don't know of Van Halen will be as well remembered.

          Comment


          • #11

            Daryl Flynn wrote:

            Overrated.

            One trick pony.

            Questionable tone.

            Influenced the wrong people.

            Doesn't stand the test of time.

             

            I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


            If you've ever seen Jimmy Page live, you'd understand that your description above fits him to a T...except you didn't mention sloppy. I really can't recall another so called "icon" that I have been as disappointed in more than Page...other than Robert Plant. When I heard Led Zeppelin in concert, without exaggeration, it was like hearing an amateur band that didn't quite have enough talent to sound like Led Zeppelin. I expected Plant to be a "poser" but it seem like Page was so intent to "pose" that his playing was abysmal. Until Plant started singing "Whole Lotta Love", I didn't recognize the song. Even after that, it was had to figure out where the signature riff was. "Stairway to Heaven" suffered the same fate, but at least it was somewhat recognizable, but had a lot of holes in the music. I think the studio recorded music of Led Zeppelin is definitely iconic, but since seeing & hearing Page live, I really haven't to get past that to think of his as an all around great guitarist,  Great riff maker/song writer, but disappointingly sloppy player live.

            EVH live, is also a "poser", but he has the skills to both pose  & play with accurate reproduction of the abilities he shows in the studio recordings.

            When it comes to live playing, I'd have to give it to EVH & state that it is Page that is overrated. I think that Page actually let the rock star/guitar god thing go to his head. There was definitely an arrogance in his stage "presence" that wasn't backed up by his playing. But....

            overall, for what they each do & what they have accomplished, I don't think either player is overrated

            ''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"--Edmund Burke
            Man created science to create what man wants science to create.

            Comment


            • #12

              Daryl Flynn wrote:

              Overrated.

              One trick pony.

              Questionable tone.

              Influenced the wrong people.

              Doesn't stand the test of time.

               

              I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


              Troll

              Attached Files

              Comment


              • bluzboy
                bluzboy commented
                Editing a comment

                VanHalen wrote:

                Daryl Flynn wrote:

                Overrated.

                One trick pony.

                Questionable tone.

                Influenced the wrong people.

                Doesn't stand the test of time.

                 

                I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


                 

                TROLL


                 

                LOL


            • #13

              I like him, but his greatest acomplishment is getting over a million more kids to pick up guitar.

               

               

              Comment


              • #14

                Daryl Flynn wrote:

                Overrated.

                One trick pony.

                Questionable tone.

                Influenced the wrong people.

                Doesn't stand the test of time.

                 

                I was right in countless arguments with my friends and schoolmates ... Jimmy Page was far better.


                Only time will tell if he stands the test of time.

                 

                Sorry, couldn't resist that.

                 

                 

                Only three things are important: Love, peace and pale ale.

                Comment


                • #15
                  ^ I just tried to "clear the mind" and listen to that tune as if I didn't know who VH were and have never heard them before - in other words, best effort to remove bias

                  Impressions:

                  The into is annoying. That's the only word that comes to mind.

                  The tune actually has something vaguely resembling a groove/pocket. With bias added back in, rather a pleasant surprise - maybe the best this rhythm section has ever sounded.

                  This whole "Eddie is a great rhythm player" meme... I don't see it. He was "ok" to me - I think the fact that he is rubbing against one of the more boring, plodding, pedestrian rhythm sections in rock makes him sound better/more interesting than his actual playing warrants. That being said, dude had time.

                  The writing, arrangement and lyrics are just stoooipid. That's where I just cannot hang. I don't mind "simple" - AC/DC is as simple as they come and it doesn't bother me in the least. But VH - and I've always felt this - is just dumb. While Dave was in the band, he went some way towards making that up with his utterly camp/tongue-in-cheek delivery and attitude, but when Hammy Cigar joined, it went from intended to unintended caricature.

                  To sum up, I hated it then and I hate it now... I guess what it comes down to is I just need a bit more from music - even "light" music, which I consider VH to be - than they delivered. No amount of sweet guitar playing makes up for all the things VH lacked, for me anyway.
                  Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                  -- Vaclav Havel

                  The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                  -- Carl Sagan


                  Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                  -- Joseph Brodsky

                  Comment


                  • Opposite Day
                    Opposite Day commented
                    Editing a comment

                    ^ You're usually on the right side of issues of tastemanship. I guess nobody's perfect though. Even just the second lick of the solo makes it worth it for me.

                    Agree about Sammy though. The weird thing is I could have tolerated his singing, but the whole band changed when he got in it. Eddie wasn't breathing fire anymore, and it was just so flat. Although I guess that was kind of the thing around that time, for good '70s bands to try sucking and sell more records doing it.


                  • Grumpy_Polecat
                    Grumpy_Polecat commented
                    Editing a comment

                    Red Ant wrote:
                    ^ I just tried to "clear the mind" and listen to that tune as if I didn't know who VH were and have never heard them before - in other words, best effort to remove bias

                    Impressions:

                    The into is annoying. That's the only word that comes to mind.

                    The tune actually has something vaguely resembling a groove/pocket. With bias added back in, rather a pleasant surprise - maybe the best this rhythm section has ever sounded.

                    This whole "Eddie is a great rhythm player" meme... I don't see it. He was "ok" to me - I think the fact that he is rubbing against one of the more boring, plodding, pedestrian rhythm sections in rock makes him sound better/more interesting than his actual playing warrants. That being said, dude had time.

                    The writing, arrangement and lyrics are just stoooipid. That's where I just cannot hang. I don't mind "simple" - AC/DC is as simple as they come and it doesn't bother me in the least. But VH - and I've always felt this - is just dumb. While Dave was in the band, he went some way towards making that up with his utterly camp/tongue-in-cheek delivery and attitude, but when Hammy Cigar joined, it went from intended to unintended caricature.

                    To sum up, I hated it then and I hate it now... I guess what it comes down to is I just need a bit more from music - even "light" music, which I consider VH to be - than they delivered. No amount of sweet guitar playing makes up for all the things VH lacked, for me anyway.

                    EVH really IS a great Rythm player, all the way up until you realize that its just fragmented chords mostly played from a position from  which you can easily arpeggiate, then repositioned on the neck with 'Flash!'

                    That said, the entire VH catalog has no durability, and history will prove me right.

                     









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