Press Kits sent!! ... now what??

[fracturepoint]

So a few months ago I decided to put together a good press kit for my band. And by good I mean great. 4 color pages inside of a printed binder with pic of the band in front and info on the back and our EP on the inside. I sent it to about 20 labels. Now I initially did this to spark interest in some labels since we're recording right now and want a label to pick up our new album, but I haven't heard anything from anyone. How should I approach this? Should I call the A&R of these companies and ask if they got it and if they'd be interested in hearing our new CD? Should I just send the new CD to them out of the blue?

 

thanks

 

Matt h - Fracture Point. check our myspace for some sick metal, suckas.

[rockerdiva]

I'll admit I don't know much about this, but from what I have heard there are so many acts out there looking to be "discovered" that A & R people routinely toss stuff, unless it is presented to them via some sort of agent or entertainment lawyer they know. If it were me I'd be researching those avenues...

[Blackened01]

Not to be taken the wrong way, but you would be lucky if your demo ever made it to the guys CD player. There are hundreds of CD delivered unsolicited to record labels every day. Typically they don't even get looked at. You might want to try getting in touch with an A&R guy then sending your stuff. At least then you stand a chance he MIGHT listen to it.

 

You have to look at it from thier perspective too. What do you do with your unsolicited mail? Your packet is a solicitation. You are basically trying to "sell them" on your music. If it just shows up, to them it is like junk mail.

 

I wish I could tell you something better than that, but it is the way it is. Just keep trying. If at first you dont succeed and all of that...

[RyanVanHalen]

You need to find bands who are signed, find people IN the industry. that seriously is the only way anymore.

 

That, or get an agent.

 

You can also go the route of hard work through touring, myspacing, connecting with people, and making yourself a big act so that someone has to see you.

 

You could also just write amazing music. that's also a good idea.

[daddymack]

Fracture, welcome to the forum...I suggest you do some reading through related threads here...

We say this all the time here...unsolicited submissions to labels go right in the trash. It's all about liability. Labels are not going to sign oyu because you made a recording...they may sign you if you can demonstrate that the recording is selling in high volume at your shows, on consignment in regional shops and on the web.

Sorry, but you wasted your time and money. If you follow up, I'm certain every one of those labels will tell you the same thing.

Also, good luck actually getting to talk to an actual A&R person at a label...

[Vincent Liou]

if they like what they see in the press kit they will dig through the trash can to look for your cd that they threw away. welcome to the forum fracture, its good to see another band in arizona

[Inazone]

 

Should I call the A&R of these companies and ask if they got it and if they'd be interested in hearing our new CD?

 

 

First of all, did you visit the labels' websites to check if they accept unsolicited demo submissions? Even if they do, most will very clearly state that you should NOT contact them to ask if they received your submission - they will contact if they got it and are interested. Some will send you a "consolation" email or letter, and others won't acknowledge you at all. Having an album already in progress should work to your advantage, although I know of bands that spent considerable money on recording, pressing and self-releasing an album, only to be signed and then have their original pressing shelved while waiting for the label to do a remixed and remastered version.

 

My band is in somewhat the same situation I guess. We were signed to a European label in 2004 based solely on the demo we submitted. We put out one album with them, but the label folded, so we are finishing up a promotional EP to send out to labels while continuing to record and mix the rest of the next full-length.

[BlueStrat]

Yup.

 

What is commonly called a press kit on this site is really a promo pack, which is what you described. A press kit is a bit different than a promo pack.

 

Sending these things to clubs and maybe even agents is fine, followed by phone calls and maybe a personal interview. But labels are a whole different deal. As DM pointed out, they don't give a rat's ass about how slick your press kit is. No matter how nice you think it is, they get dozens every week that are as good if not better. Most of them don't ever get opened.

 

What they really want to know is how often you're performing, how large of an area you're covering, the venues you're playing, how many CDs/downloads you're selling, how big your 'buzz' is, whether you are commercial enough to sell but just different enough to not be Nickelback Jr.

 

And this is the main thing: They want to hear about you from someone besides you.

 

And when you send a press kit, it has to be just that: press that you've received. Reviews from newspapers, regional and national magazines, e-zines, etc. And you don't have to send the entire review, just relevant quotes and the source. Sending a nice folder with pics and a CD is part of it, of course, but if you can't provide any media impact statements from outside your own zip code, it won't likely get you anything except gigs at local clubs.

 

Not trying to be a wet blanket, just a realist.

[kingfinn]

I've been playing pro since 1962 and signed with a production company for my first tour in 1965.

From my years of experience any submissions to a major label have to be through an entertainment attorney.

This is to protect the label and you or your band.

Find a reputable attorney that believes in your music and has connections in the industry.

 

The reality in today's world is that you don't really need the major labels.

If you have the goods you will be recognized in your market as a viable talent.

Anything the majors "give" you will have to be paid back in spades so beware of what you wish for.

[Instrospection]

 

Yup. What is commonly called a press kit on this site is really a promo pack, which is what you described. A press kit is a bit different than a promo pack. Sending these things to clubs and maybe even agents is fine, followed by phone calls and maybe a personal interview. But labels are a whole different deal. As DM pointed out, they don't give a rat's ass about how slick your press kit is. No matter how nice you think it is, they get dozens every week that are as good if not better. Most of them don't ever get opened. What they really want to know is how often you're performing, how large of an area you're covering, the venues you're playing, how many CDs/downloads you're selling, how big your 'buzz' is, whether you are commercial enough to sell but just different enough to not be Nickelback Jr. And this is the main thing: They want to hear about you from someone besides you. And when you send a press kit, it has to be just that: press that you've received. Reviews from newspapers, regional and national magazines, e-zines, etc. And you don't have to send the entire review, just relevant quotes and the source. Sending a nice folder with pics and a CD is part of it, of course, but if you can't provide any media impact statements from outside your own zip code, it won't likely get you anything except gigs at local clubs. Not trying to be a wet blanket, just a realist.

 

 

Good points, Blue Strat.

 

In the world of the industry, less is more. One page, tops--they won't read the rest, anyways. You have to put yourself in their shoes--they get hundreds (thousands?) of demos a day by bands that want to make it. You have to stand out....which can be difficult. The best bands don't succeed quicker--they just have a lower rate of rejection. EVERY band out there has experienced rejection, and the more successful ones are driven to lengths that people--industry execs, naysayer fans, etc--just can't ignore. You're on all the best bills. You're on all the great radio stations. But before that, you have to believe, believe, believe, sleep on many floors, risk not paying many bills because you spent it on gear or promoting yourself, etc.

 

BlueStrat mentioned that "they want to hear about you from someone who isn't you". This is very true. All the self described quotes by you or your own band won't work unless other people are saying the same thing. EVERY band thinks that they're great--there is nothing that makes you greater to anyone else's band, besides proving yourself. Proof of small level success. IMHO, you should be going after campus radio--proof that people will play it and deem it good enough for broadcast. Promo in EVERY city where you'd like to eventually play. Even promo the newspapers, and especially cool underground zines.

 

It will get expensive, but you have to lose money before you make money. It is very important to realize that bands don't start making money, even on a major, until they've proven themselves. The majority of bands (something like 90 to 95 percent) actually lose money on even major labels. If you want to convince a bigger label to risk their money on you with a loan, they have to be assured that you've done the same thing. For example, i'm getting John Golden to master my next record (he worked with Sonic Youth, High On Fire, Karp, Comets On Fire, Chris Isaak, Neurosis, Melvins). And that looks pretty good on a bio, not to mention that he'll get it to sound amazing. At some point, you need to put your own money on the line for that, in order to convince people that you're serious.

 

Do research at campus radio stations as to who plays metal on their shows that you specialize in. Address a cover letter to the campus director (most websites have this info), saying "hello my name is ____ " and as many of the five w's and one h that you can get in there. Include your style, as well, so that they can pass it on to who may like it at their radio station. If you know the campus radio station director's name on the cover sheet, they're more likely to pass around your band's disc to DJ's that will like it. They're always eager to play new bands--that's what campus radio thrives on--they just need a reason for your band to be the exception in some way--be that an added personal touch--to the hundreds of cds that they get a week.

 

Better yet, alot of campus radio stations have descriptions of their shows and show hosts and what they play. For example: if you do your homework to find out that Johnny Z plays metal on his show "Metal Forever", include in the press kit maybe an extra bio or cd for Johnny Z to check out and play. Even better: mention in the cover letter that Johnny Z may like your cd and if it would be possible to pass it on to him. Campus directors are overworked and underpaid....but they're there for the same reason that you are: to get good music in the hands of DJ's. Again, with the sheer amount of promos that they get, you need any reason that you can possibly get to edge yourself out over the competition.

 

Now for the bio--steer clear of words like "seminal" or "influential". After time, you may get there, but a thousand new bands can't all be seminal. Be honest with your style and influences....NEVER state, "this band is original, and are doing things that haven't been done before". This is the year 2008--EVERYTHING has been done before, they need to know where you fit in so that they can sell your music. When you are selling your music, you are a brand....if you were food and stocked in a supermarket and you said, "we have a taste that nothing else has", they need to know, "well that's great, but are you a dessert? A vegetable? Bread? We need to know what your taste is unique in, so that we can taste other foods of that type and determine for ourselves". And as a matter of fact, pick the most obscure influences that you can think of. If you're a metal band, how many thousands of bios come through that state that they're "influenced by Metallica"? Get to what influenced Metallica.

 

Also in the bio--put something unique in there. If your bass player only has one arm, put that in there. If you're all brothers, put that in there. If you're the number one polka metal band in Albuquerque, put that in there. Plus, you need to have as many of the who what when where why how's in the first line or two.

 

Others:

 

--skip those envelopes with that shredded paper. Many people hate this and this will give you an instant blackmark

--take the plastic off your cd. Yes, everyone thinks that everyone wants the thrill of the unwrapping experience, but when labels or campus radio directors do this for hundreds of cds a day, it loses it's lustre quickly

--don't include candy, trinkets or other things like that.

 

There's no quick or easy road to the top and you've got to work tens of hours a week at this. Like, between rehearsing, promo-ing, playing, it should be 20-30 hours a week. If it wasn't your part time job, it is now, or you're simply not doing enough to succeed.

[fracturepoint]

well in all fairness I sent out press kits a little prematurely because we're not even done with our CD. I just wanted to get interest in us before we released our full length by getting our ep to labels.

 

I really think our album will be good enough to be picked up by a label, but how do I get a label to give it the time of day? kingfinn you mentioned getting an entertainment lawyer to submit to a label? would that cost me a {censored} ton of cash? how would I find someone like that?

[Instrospection]

 

well in all fairness I sent out press kits a little prematurely because we're not even done with our CD. I just wanted to get interest in us before we released our full length by getting our ep to labels. I really think our album will be good enough to be picked up by a label, but how do I get a label to give it the time of day?

 

 

You need to understand this statement:

 

"the gravy train has passed"

 

With MP3's, downloads and the industry dying, labels are even less apt to sign bands. There is pretty much zero chance that you will get signed, and it's for the best--major labels have always functioned as basically a bank with a loan, and they held all the connections. Now, with the ability to promote oneself online that used to cost major labels thousands of $$$ to push bands, more and more bands are seeing less of a point to dealing with a major (case in point: Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead have gone independent...well, not with majors, anyways).

 

Again, the notion that you'll become big and rich even if you're signed is extremely rare. As i've said, something like 95 percent of major label bands are money losers; tax writeoffs.

 

 

 

kingfinn you mentioned getting an entertainment lawyer to submit to a label? would that cost me a {censored} ton of cash? how would I find someone like that?

 

 

I don't think that you really quite "get" what we're saying here: forget the label and forget big dreams. Aim high, expect low. If you aim high and are only doing this for grabbing the brass ring, you'll give up quickly and all it will do is bum you out and you'll get tired after a short while. If you're not willing to lose money for a few years, no one will hear of your band. Gig, tour, finance your own recordings and don't take no for an answer. Again, if you're not willing to lose or risk your own money--how do you expect anyone else to? Even indie and moderately big indie labels have been stung. Even a prestigious independent metal label like Relapse doesn't take in demos--you need to be working, working, working. It's not up to someone else to shape your dream and end goal, it's up to you.

 

The bottom line is that music stores, music distributors, labels and even clubs are taking in less bands. What you need to do is draw your own door and invite yourself in; the best way to do that is through hard work and results. I've got turned down at a number of places, all it does is make me try harder. In the end, I formed my own label, and I get to write off everything--pressing costs, equipment (amps, pedals, etc), recording equipment, etc. If the hard work isn't getting you anywhere, then maybe you need to work smarter.

 

Sorry if this is a bit abrasive....i'm not terse or anything, i'm just trying to give you a wake up call. There's no quick or easy road to success--and even if it's quick, that's half the battle. Maintaining success is the more difficult battle--think of all the bands that "made it" just to squander it.

[fracturepoint]

no offense man but you sound like a bitter has been. I'm on blabbermouth EVERYDAY. Here's what I've seen lately:

 

WEDNESDAY 13 Signs European Deal With DEMOLITION RECORDS - Mar. 17, 2008

 

S.I.N. Signs With ARTIST SERVICE - Mar. 14, 2008

 

FROST LIKE ASHES Signs With SULLEN RECORDS - Mar. 13, 2008

 

VAINGLORY Signs With LOCOMOTIVE RECORDS - Mar. 13, 2008

 

DECEIVER Signs With PULVERISED RECORDS - Mar. 12, 2008

 

Bands are getting signed. Good bands are pulling through. We are a good band and with the right label we'll be successful. I'm a musician and I'd rather have people who know how to deal with distribution and promotion help us out instead of me doing every freakin thing. I'd rather practice and write songs. Now you're gonna tell me that there aren't any people out there that have a "label" or means of distribution of CDs who push bands they believe in? So every band from now on has to do everything DIY???? How the hell am I gonna have time to practice my goddamn instrument? no wonder bands suck these days.

[Inazone]

Look for a label that offers what you need, but also one who you will be an asset to. Retail shelf space is diminishing, so don't expect to see your CD in stores with just any label. But depending on your genre, there can be a strong "indie" media presence that will help make people aware of you. Do your homework and find out what labels seem suited to working with your band. Plenty of people will tell you that you don't need a label, but if you know what you want and have realistic expectations, you can certainly benefit from having good business partners.

[Instrospection]

no offense man but you sound like a bitter has been. I'm on blabbermouth EVERYDAY.

 

Oh...the Blabbermouth crowd. That says everything I need to know.

 

No offense, but what has your attitude got you? You came here looking for advice on WHY labels haven't got back to you. They don't care how great you are, they want to know that they can make money off of you. Nothing draws a crowd like a crowd, as they say. If this is the way that you go up to labels--or state in your bio like "we're so great", the best way to NOT get noticed is to put that in a bio. I can guarantee that you definetely won't get noticed if you have that sort of attitude. They likely get hundreds of similar recordings/ bios which all just get tossed in the trash.

 

A bitter has been? Hah, that's so far off the mark, but for the record, i've got All Music Guide reviews for my first album, which was released last year, and I hit number one on one chart and had success on many others (campus radio, but still). Look into how difficult it is to get A review there at AMG, let alone a good one--you have to basically have an "in", a connection to a reviewer. That takes time and effort to find. Hell, I got my first radio play cheque a couple of weeks ago, and every review that we've got has been glowing. And it is still difficult to sell records. Even with that acclaim, we haven't been contacted by labels. It's a tough go for 99.999999 percent of bands out there.

 

It's a long time to be a ten year overnight sensation. I've been around long enough to know the ropes, but waited long enough to make sure that I had quality product to release when I did go public. And i've been around long enough to know what's realistic. There's hundreds of thousands of bands out there--you need to take that competition into mind.

 

Here's what I've seen lately: WEDNESDAY 13 Signs European Deal With DEMOLITION RECORDS - Mar. 17, 2008 S.I.N. Signs With ARTIST SERVICE - Mar. 14, 2008 FROST LIKE ASHES Signs With SULLEN RECORDS - Mar. 13, 2008 VAINGLORY Signs With LOCOMOTIVE RECORDS - Mar. 13, 2008 DECEIVER Signs With PULVERISED RECORDS - Mar. 12, 2008 Bands are getting signed. Good bands are pulling through.

 

Here's what i've seen lately:

 

A bunch of bands wanting to do nothing for a whole lot of something. I'm guessing that you're 17-19, full of fresh ideals. That's great--everyone does. Then the reality kicks in.

 

Those bands are WORKING. Wednesday 13 has been around for years, too. You don't get that by sitting on a messageboard saying "check out my stuff". It's that exact mentality that has got the industry as {censored}ed up as it is. I've jammed with tons of guys that thought that they were "great"--in my estimation, few of them had the complete package: some were great guys with poor skills, some were assholes with great skills, etc. Most lacked the determination and grit to take rejection and learn from it.....most shut down the minute you give them any sort of criticism.

 

By all means continue to think that we're trying to give you wrong advice here.

 

We are a good band and with the right label we'll be successful.

 

I'm sure that you probably are, and that you probably think you are. What band thinks that they're selling crap? Prove how you're different, don't just talk about it.

 

I'm a musician and I'd rather have people who know how to deal with distribution and promotion help us out instead of me doing every freakin thing.

 

I agree that it sucks. I have to do it too. But people are more likely to stand up and take notice if you gig out, find good bills to play on, finance your own great recordings and create your own buzz. I like the fact that I owe absolutely no one for my success, i've gone out and earned it the old fashioned way.

 

Now you're gonna tell me that there aren't any people out there that have a "label" or means of distribution of CDs who push bands they believe in? So every band from now on has to do everything DIY???? How the hell am I gonna have time to practice my goddamn instrument? no wonder bands suck these days.

 

I'm telling you: start your own label. You get to write off pressing, promo, amps/ guitars/ pedals (as well as guitar strings), recording equipment. Plus, you get to write off rehearsal fees, and gas to and from rehearsal, some other bands recordings ("analyzing the market" research), etc. It amazes me how clueless some new bands are--up here in Canada, it's $85 bucks total for a request for business name reservation and registering as a business. That's it. Just keep the receipts and do your taxes next year and whatever you spend, you get back.

 

And don't be afraid to lose money--I think the mindset is that "well, how do we justify losing money?". That's easy: don't worry about that. It's actually expected that you're going to lose money for a few years, just to put a product out there. It doesn't matter how many people buy; you're trying to make a go of it as a business. Studio fees, webspace, GEAR, promotion fees, those are all things that you have to pay out just to put a product out there. Music is very, very expensive to make available for a public to buy, when and if they do. If your amp tubes blow in a studio session, run out to the store and buy some new ones, keep the receipt, and then write it off next year on taxes as "maintenance". The "when" and "if" don't matter as much as the "why" and "how"--"why" is because you love playing music, and "how" is because you're not waiting around for a label to sign you (who would have otherwise been writing off YOUR studio fees and pressing costs). The government encourages new business growth--and to make records and make your business your music, you have to incur alot of expenses.

 

I just went out and knocked back 1000 dollars on gear, plus I paid a few thousand to get our next album mastered and pressed to vinyl by John Golden (Sonic Youth, Melvins, High On Fire, Neurosis). All out of my pocket. No debts. Though I had to pay it up front, I get it all back at the end of the year, and I got $6600 back last year. I don't owe anyone anything, and by the time the labels come around, they'll have nothing to offer me, because I make more per unit and i've worked towards my own vision instead of waiting around for labels that may or may not come.

 

If you're smart, there's absolutely nothing that a label that you can't do yourself. And NO ONE will care more than what you're doing than you are, a label will never put as much priority on it as you want. For example, a small label will be releasing a 7" of ours, but they keep on {censored}ing up the timeframe, so I tell the fans there will be a 7", and it keeps on getting delayed. When i'm paying for that out of my pocket, I can guarantee the release date, how it sounds, looks and everything.

 

EVERY good independent label was started up by guys in bands, or regular small time everyday joes. Like Dischord. SubPop. SST. Touch and Go. Relapse. These people all had to work hard to establish their name. And EVERY major label has had to sink money into bands for recordings, promo and tour advances....before the bands have even sold one unit. Music has always been expensive, and it's always been a risk. Sure it might make money and the bands make the cover of Spin....but that doesn't mean that they're covering costs. The traditional method is that: band gets advance for recording, touring and promo. Band sells a moderate amount, is on every music mag cover. Band is still in the hole, because though they've sold well, they still owe _____ amount to the record label, because their last record took 100 grand to make (label demands remix jobs with Lord Alge, Andy Wallace and Mutt Lange, etc), and took 150 to 250 grand of promotions (the most expensive part of the album cycle is the promotions and getting the awareness out there). Band follows up first album with album #2, and pays back a few more loans, repeats the cycle, and then makes album #3 and so on.

 

The mentality is that bands plug a guitar in and get signed. Again, 95 percent of bands on majors lose money...the more successful ones lose less of it, and carry on longer to pay it back to get out of the hole to actually outright own their amps and material (most majors own your masters, even after you've paid back the loan!), fancy limos and big jet airplanes. Ask alot of the up and coming bands what they outright own--they might have alot of nice stuff, but boy is the loan interest a killer.....

[BlueStrat]

 

no offense man but you sound like a bitter has been. I'm on blabbermouth EVERYDAY. Here's what I've seen lately: WEDNESDAY 13 Signs European Deal With DEMOLITION RECORDS - Mar. 17, 2008 S.I.N. Signs With ARTIST SERVICE - Mar. 14, 2008 FROST LIKE ASHES Signs With SULLEN RECORDS - Mar. 13, 2008 VAINGLORY Signs With LOCOMOTIVE RECORDS - Mar. 13, 2008 DECEIVER Signs With PULVERISED RECORDS - Mar. 12, 2008 Bands are getting signed. Good bands are pulling through. We are a good band and with the right label we'll be successful. I'm a musician and I'd rather have people who know how to deal with distribution and promotion help us out instead of me doing every freakin thing. I'd rather practice and write songs. Now you're gonna tell me that there aren't any people out there that have a "label" or means of distribution of CDs who push bands they believe in? So every band from now on has to do everything DIY???? How the hell am I gonna have time to practice my goddamn instrument? no wonder bands suck these days.

 

 

 

Tell you what, fracture.

 

List where you're currently touring, what your gross is per tour, how well your last 3 releases have sold, how big an area you're playing and how often, and what kind of markets you're getting consistent airplay in. THEN you might have something to offer a label that can do anything for you.

 

All those guys you listed with 'deals'? Do you know anything about their deals? SULLEN records? PULVERIZED? Who the hell are they? How many acts do they have signed making a decent living playing music?

 

I signed with an indie on my last record. Looks good to have a label when you send them out. Know what they did for me? Fronted me the recording, period. That's all I wanted from them, which is why I signed, but now I too can go onto a web site and say I'm a signed act, even though I'm no better off than my buddy's band who was DIY all the way. I didn't get distribution, no concert tours, etc etc.

 

And here's a dirty little secret about labels: Most of them, not even the majors, do anything near for artists what they used to. They can't afford it. The days of signing with a label and suddenly being whisked away into a multi-million dollar studio, given a tour bus and put out on tour are pretty much over. YOU have to have your own booking agency, your own leased bus, your own drivers, your own road managers, crew, publicist, etc etc. Record companies may offer some of these services, but you'll pay for them, believe me, and a lot more than you would if you have your own.

 

Like Intro said, labels are basically loan companies who want to minimize risks.

 

You said your record isn't even out yet. Okay, great. Imagine you're a label exec and you get a promo pack for the 180th time this week from a band who hasn't released the record yet, can't demonstrate sales numbers, can't demonstrate their market size or any real sales figures, can't provide any national press, but they want you to sign them. The reality is, it's likely not going to happen. It's like asking a pro football team to hire you right out of high school.

 

If what you're looking for is a distribution deal, well, that's almost as hard to get as a record deal. Why? because shelf space in stores is a valuable commodity, and you have to demonstrate to the distributor what he has to demonstrate to the retailers-that you can sell records.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that in order to get signed to a label that can do anything for you, you have to prove that you almost don't need them. That;s not bitterness speaking, that's the reality of dealing with record companies. If you don't believe it, don't take my word for it, ask gtrbass or scafeets here, both of whom worked and recorded for major labels.

 

No one's trying to kill your buzz here. But you asked for advice and you're getting it. The truth is, from what is evident here, you aren't anywhere near ready to be thinking a bout a label deal. If you want to keep pursuing it, that's cool. Just be aware that you're taking a path that will likely yeild no results compared to what you could be doing for yourself.

 

I wish you alll the best.

[Instrospection]

 

Tell you what, fracture. List where you're currently touring, what your gross is per tour, how well your last 3 releases have sold, how big an area you're playing and how often, and what kind of markets you're getting consistent airplay in. THEN you might have something to offer a label that can do anything for you.

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

All those guys you listed with 'deals'? Do you know anything about their deals? SULLEN records? PULVERIZED? Who the hell are they? How many acts do they have signed making a decent living playing music?

 

 

Exactly. Relapse is a big underground label, i'm more concerned with what they're releasing, because for metal bands, Relapse is like the minor leagues of major label success (ie: Mastodon).

 

It's about the quality of the deal that you're offered. Vainglory, Sullen, Pulverized, etc....doesn't matter whether it's the band or the label, I haven't heard of any of 'em. Better yet, have you heard of any of these labels? How much prestige do these labels have towards the majors? If they have no prestige, getting signed doesn't mean a whole helluva lot.

 

Just because bands are getting signed left and right, doesn't mean that they're good deals. Just check back to the 60's to see how many one hit wonders got signed to here today, gone tomorrow labels looking for a quick buck to shaft their artists with. Most of those groups had hits, but were left poor and bankrupt afterwards.

 

NEVER confuse A deal with a good deal. Only time tells what the good deals are.

 

 

And here's a dirty little secret about labels: Most of them, not even the majors, do anything near for artists what they used to. They can't afford it. The days of signing with a label and suddenly being whisked away into a multi-million dollar studio, given a tour bus and put out on tour are pretty much over. YOU have to have your own booking agency, your own leased bus, your own drivers, your own road managers, crew, publicist, etc etc. Record companies may offer some of these services, but you'll pay for them, believe me, and a lot more than you would if you have your own.

 

 

Exactly. They're hurting, because they no longer control the methods in which we hear music--the radio, MTV, etc. Now that they no longer control it, they're scared because bands can do it themselves without the majors' help. In the past, the majors only wanted anything to do with bands, until they had proven themselves (Replacements, Husker Du, Camper Van Beethoven....hell, the Beatles are the original "indie" act, they had to form their own label because no one else would sign them).

 

 

If what you're looking for is a distribution deal, well, that's almost as hard to get as a record deal. Why? because shelf space in stores is a valuable commodity, and you have to demonstrate to the distributor what he has to demonstrate to the retailers-that you can sell records.

 

 

Yup. And even distributors can get stung. Here's the thing: they stock it, and if it doesn't sell, they have to eat the cost of shipping it there, and then shipping the stock back that doesn't sell. It's a humbling experience for any store returning stock to a distributor--neither wants to do so.

 

 

If you want to keep pursuing it, that's cool. Just be aware that you're taking a path that will likely yeild no results compared to what you could be doing for yourself. .

 

 

Yeah....have fun and work hard. If you're good enough to get noticed, you will, and if not, DIY. Today, with MySpace, online networking (it's essentially distro of yesteryear) you can control your own destiny. If you're not doing that for yourself, then you really missed the power that technology can yield you towards what you can do for yourself today. Anything you can control, do it. It will get you further in the end.

 

Also, how about this: let's say you're offered a deal where you don't own your masters, with a very poor rate of compensation. Do you sign? I mean, hey, it's a big deal, right? Why don't you sign?

 

Plenty of bands in the past got ripped off. Check out this video of Flo and Eddie of the Turtles about how many "big names" they got ripped off from:

 

 

 

....that may scare some sense into by thinking that you need to get signed or deal with big guys promising the moon. For every good deal, there's many bad deals that cheat artists out of their hard work, in disguise of fame and fortune.

[BlueStrat]

And don't forget gettng signed, only to have the producers fire half the band and hire you new replacements, ask you to change your name, and then when the record comes out they shelve if because (fill in the blank with half a dozen reasons or no reason at all) and you can't release your record nor record for someone else for five years.

 

But hey, I'm on a major label! Wheee!

[Ani]

The Turtles video is pretty entertaining, but there have been many artists that got screwed because they were trusting souls just looking to play music and make a living doing what they love.

 

Record Labels??? What would you suggest qualifies an establishment as a legitimate record label? Have you done any homework as to what it is you are seeking to obtain? Do you have any clue as to what "type" of record deal you are seeking to sign? Any idea as to what you should be doing to CYA if that "big deal" should come your way?

 

Studio Rates? Hidden Costs? Recording Schedules and deadlines? Parties to the Contract? Exclusive or Non-Exclusive Rights? Ownership Rights to materials? Contract for Hire??? Rate Reductions??? Applicable Discounts? Mandatory touring (even if in the red)??? Riders??? Releases? Royalty Splits between multiple writers within the group or assigned by the record label as a collaborator??? Are you willing to give up ownership rights to original materials in certain instances??? Distribution Agreements??? Renewal Options? Controlled Composition and Mechanical Royalties? I could continue on and on, but first I might ask you some more preliminary questions.....

 

Has your band ever played out in public??? Does your band have a following? How long has your band been together in it's original state? Do you change band members frequently or have you played together faithfully over the years? Has your band discussed songwriter agreements among members? Do you have a band leader? Does one band member own more gear than others or does the band have a gear fund that pays for the upkeep and purchase of band equipment? Did the whole band pay for the recording or does one guy shell out the dough to make things happen in the studio??? Do you have a band manager? Pretty fundamental stuff, eh??? Damned important to know where the money goes when and if the money should start rolling in big... If you don't have these things worked out already and written in stone; you are NOT ready to be seeking record deals.

 

Do you have a website that shows your gig dates for the following 6 months that an A & R Director can refer to in the event he should want to drop in on the spur of the moment... he may have other business in your town and might want to watch your band's performance "unannounced". Have you ever filed a copyright on any of your original works??? Do you know the importance of registering your works in the Library of Congress whenever shopping your materials around?

 

Some of the things that I mention in the last two paragraphs are even more fundamental than putting a "press kit" together; but these things are mandatory and are a prerequisite to sending out press kits if you are even considering the idea of seeking a record deal.

 

In a wild guess, I would venture to say that your band is not steadily employed in the music scene and, if anything, you're weekend warriors with maybe a few gigs a year. Off the top of your head... what's in your set list? How many songs do you play a night and what is your split between originals and cover tunes??? Or are you well known enough that venues will contract you as an all original band??? If you have any major venues that actually "PAY" you to perform all originals; that could be good for starters in the preparation of a press kit, or more so a PROMO package.

 

As for sending your "press kit" to Record Labels... if they are anyone with a reputation, you're tossing dollars in the wind if you are sending them unsolicited. There are very strict guidelines that are adhered to that distinguish solicited materials from all the other mass mailings... It takes an insider to know what those guidelines are. Calling a record company and asking if you can send your press kit doesn't change a thing if it can't be identified amongst the rest.

[BlueStrat]

I listened to Fracture's myspace page, and I have to say, though that kind of metal with cookie monster vocals isn't my thing, what I heard sounded pretty well played, recorded and produced. So it's safe to assume he's dealing with metal labels, which are as a rule quite different than pop or blues lables. Metal labels are known in general for not being able to do much for their artists except record and distribute, but if that's all he's looking for, he might be golden.

[daddymack]

And don't forget gettng signed, only to have the producers fire half the band and hire you new replacements, ask you to change your name, and then when the record comes out they shelve if because (fill in the blank with half a dozen reasons or no reason at all) and you can't release your record nor record for someone else for five years. But hey, I'm on a major label! Wheee!

ah, the other sad part of 'the deal': signed is no guarantee of release and distribution....especially with the bigger labels. I know, I had an album shelved with a subsidiary of a major label back in the early 70s, but I was under contract, and therefore... screwed...for three years...

Be careful what you wish for...

[Poker99]

We all wish you good luck dude, we just don't want you to get screwed or to lose why you are doing this in the first place (because you love music).

[Inazone]

 

I listened to Fracture's myspace page, and I have to say, though that kind of metal with cookie monster vocals isn't my thing, what I heard sounded pretty well played, recorded and produced. So it's safe to assume he's dealing with metal labels, which are as a rule quite different than pop or blues lables. Metal labels are known in general for not being able to do much for their artists except record and distribute, but if that's all he's looking for, he might be golden.

 

 

I can't get to MySpace from my office PC, but since we're talking death metal, I can elaborate on what the little "underground" labels offer for a new act. Keep in mind that this does NOT include the Nuclear Blast/Century Media/Metal Blade/Relapse types of labels, which are for all practical purposes the major labels of extreme metal. Here is what we got from our label, which was based in Europe:

 

- Distribution to virtually everywhere in the world via Century Media, Plastic Head and other distributors . . . but this ended up being mostly online/mail-order and very limited retail.

 

- They offered to handle the artwork, but we had already made arrangements. They were going to reimburse us for promo photos, but instead gave us additional CDs to sell.

 

- 3000 retail CDs pressed, with 8-page color booklet, UPC barcode, iTunes and other online services. We only got 150 CDs to sell, but that would be enough to pay off our costs. Our royalty rate was to be .5 Euro per unit sold, but we ultimately got nothing (see below).

 

- Label provided mastering. However, they required a remix first (we paid for our own studio time) and did a poor mastering job.

 

- Magazine ads, promo CDs to magazines/webzines, and radio play in Europe.

 

Unfortunately, the poor mastering was only the tip of the iceberg. The promotion was targeted all wrong, toward a genre other than what we really fit into. The label signed many other up-and-coming bands at the same time, stretched themselves too thin, and ultimately ran out of money. We never received any accounting information, but the last figure we heard was that the label sold a whopping *300* units before liquidating their entire inventory for .5 Euro/unit . . . in other words, selling each CD off for the equivalent of our royalty rate.

 

In the end, we weren't out anything other than the recording costs that we would have incurred whether signed or unsigned. Being signed was cool at first, but other than getting our name out in front of people (especially media) who otherwise wouldn't have heard of us, we didn't gain much. It was a good experience though, and we learned a lot about the industry. This time around, we are recording, mixing and mastering using on our own, and only looking for a label once we have a finished product. We will NOT be looking for financial backing or tour support, just the pressing, promotion and distribution that we can't do on our own. I fully expect a pressing of 500-1000 units, with most focus being downloads. Anything more in the current environment is a bonus to us.

[Instrospection]

ah, the other sad part of 'the deal': signed is no guarantee of release and distribution....especially with the bigger labels. I know, I had an album shelved with a subsidiary of a major label back in the early 70s, but I was under contract, and therefore... screwed...for three years... Be careful what you wish for...

 

+1.

 

Listen to this horror story:

 

My friend's band got signed to a Universal distro deal. Things were looking way up, we shared a few beers and had a grand celebration. That lasted for, oh, a week or two until the deal started to go south.

 

Universal made them change their name. So when they gigged around here, their draw went down, because hardly anyone knew the name! So they messed around for maybe a year, tops, before they changed the name back--probably because Universal realized that the band had built up their reputation for a few years on that name.

 

Universal also demanded remix jobs, and delayed the album by at least two years. And this was only from a distribution deal! They recorded it and had it ready in 2001.

 

The album didn't see release until 2003.

 

Now that's what I call a momentum killer.

 

My experience (and what other people have said about their friends' bands....keep in mind that these were small, generally local or regional "buzz" bands that never got a chance to crack it bigger because of record label fumbling) is that major involvement quite often = hassles.

 

There was another local band, Inward Eye, who had a really strong buzz around here for their Who-like live show, and then they signed with Jive/ BMG, and then they've languished ever since. How do you go from opening to the Who, to not having a proper album out 3 years after you should have? They still don't have an album out! Now their buzz is killed dead (I think Jive...or someone limited their live shows), and unless a miracle happens, they're done for. Someone dropped the ball in a major way there.

 

I must reiterate that most of the rappers with expensive bling, bands with tour buses, limos, jets, etc--they're all in debt to the record company. Sometimes eternally. Ask them what they actually own, as opposed to what the record label has them by the short and curlies because of what they're in debt for. They often fire band members (or suggest that you replace your bass player or drummer with studio musicians), suggest dress code, mess with your release times and kill momentum. Of course, not in every case, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

 

This is something that most successful artists won't tell you. "Well, technically we were assets rich until album #4, when we sold mega platinum!". AC/DC, by the time that Bon Scott died after "Highway To Hell", were on per diems.

 

Per diems. Strict monetary budgets. Bon Scott was never rich, he often had to borrow money from Angus. They had to work HARD. They didn't have a proper American deal until after Bon died, which was album #5 (ask yourself why "Dirty Deeds" wasn't released in the US until '81 or so, 5 years after their release. Record execs routinely hated them; they had to go out and bust their ass, because they believed in it.

 

The Rolling Stones weren't clear of their debts, even around the 1969 Altamont era. Sure they had fancy cars, nice guitars, tons of fame and riches and everything, but they were still in debt. It wasn't until the 70's and the mass merchandising juggernaut (look at how their shows weren't that big compared to the 70's and 80's). The whole rock n' roll dream looks great on the surface, but on paper, you owe a whole lot of paper to the record company.

 

Led Zeppelin STILL don't own their masters or songs. When Page did that duet with Puff Daddy, that was licensed through Atlantic. Sure he got a performance royalty, but the majority of the money went to Atlantic....for the songs that he wrote! When they signed their deal in 1968 or so, they were generally poor, and signed a deal where even after their debts were paid back, Atlantic eternally owned their masters and publishing.

 

How's that for a major deal? I'm not trying to scare you off; i'm just telling you what the big labels don't want you to hear. Bands aren't exactly forthcoming with it, either.

[fracturepoint]

First off I'd like to apologize to mr Introspection for initially coming off like a dickface.

 

The number one thing is that I don't want to start my own label because no man is an island, to be successful in anything you always need people to help you and no matter how crappy labels are they have way more know-how and know-who than I can hope to have. I can accept the fact that we may be broke for the first few albums but I see us as a long term band because we come up with a lot of good material quick.

 

Here's the plan as I see it... We just recorded with a great producer (he just did Job for a Cowboy check out www.myspace.com/jobforacowboy for the production value.) We're a well established band in Phoenix for 6 years, we have a massive following, we've had 5 songs on KUPD, we've had 2 listings in blabbermouth (yeah talk all the crap you want but everyone knows about it so it's legit.) All without a full length CD. We're paying for the CD on our own, getting a super-pro artist to do our CD and make it look sweet... so we want to find a label to take this finished product and instead of spending cash to record it they can use it mostly to promote it. And sorry, but no matter how much DIY you can do, you can't get the word out about a band as much as a label. We plan on touring our asses off after the albums out (that's the catch, we haven't done too much touring, just about 6 dates in San Diego and various towns all over AZ) But we've played hundreds of shows in town and I think we're pretty much ready to get out of here. Oh and my buddy is selling us a Winnebago for cheap as hell... so yeah... we wanna quit our day jobs.