The state of ROCK

[samal50]

OK so all music sucks now, is it time for ROCK to make a comeback? It hasn't really disappeared it just isn't mainstream. But what I don't get is why The Grammy's would have an old band like AC/DC get the showcase instead of some younger band? People are going to think Rock music is old people music. I think for Rock music to make a comeback a really good A&R who knows and cares about the music should be in charge of the career of the band(s). Make these bands sing, not growl, so they can showcase real talent. There are lots of great musicians out there but they seem to refuse to sing and make songs that can cross over the mainstream (that's where all the money and attention is). It's hard to do it these days because none of these young kids want to be told what to do. I subscribe to the newsletter of TAXI A&R and there seem to be a demand for rock music but I don't think kids are playing Rock these days, they'd rather click on a mouse and make beats with fruityloops and hope they would get "signed" to some pay-to-play indie CD-R record label. Nobody "jams" anymore is also the problem, everything is send MP3, add more **************** to it later, etc. Also, social media seem to take a lot of kids' time these days with their "updates" and "uploads" of photos. Something needs to change here...

 

I'm actually really getting bored with social media...I hope it's not just me. And kids need to stop wanting to be the next Metallica, that has been done.

[1001gear]

Rock sucks too. In my day it was the weed. I stopped weed, rock immediately sucked. Nowadays (God forbid) it's looking like weed might gain some legitimacy but by now people's preferences have been thoroughly researched and probably developed at that. So yeah, rock will find its fans, so will games, porn, fast food, Satellite TV .... weed too.

[daddymack]

The real issues are that the old paradigms don't work, major labels don't find bands, they find product that is already selling, hiphop is now called R&B and teenage boys still buy into the misogyny and objectification of women promulgated by metal bands....and yeah, it is much easier to sound like the Cookie Monster than to actually sing...then again, no one really cares about the lyrics.

Trust me, I see young frustrated guys at blues jams all the time. Their complaint? They can't keep a band together because they can't find people who stick with it. Technology has created 'the short attention span theater of the mind', and kids want instant results. The other piece is they all think they can write great songs, so they focus on originals, and don't learn good covers, so they wind up in the gristmill of pay-to-play one-set shows, where only their best friends will come down once a month...and not buy drinks, just hang...

[Vito Corleone]

Rock music IS old peoples music. I haven't heard anything that sounded new or different --- at least certainly not anything that achieved wide mainstream success --- since the mid 90s. TWENTY years ago. Since then, the 'best' rock bands have sounded like old stuff. So I think it's fair to say that rock music has probably run its course.

 

Not that music won't continue to "rock", and that there won't be those new bands and musicians who do the old sounding stuff really well, but will it be dominant like it was from 1955-2000? I don't think so. But hey---40+ years is a great run for any genre.

 

Jazz isn't much different. When was the last time something truly new came along in the jazz genre? Decades ago.

 

It's OK. The good news is that all the old stuff was recorded and we'll have it forever whenever we want it. Let something new come along that gets the kids excited. That's probably a good thing.

[1001gear]

I'm liking the Gospel Chops thing. New elegance meets bop.

 

[video=youtube;jAlUCcxB3fs]

 

[samal50]

That's a great comment guido. I think the rock music is old. Without anyone overdosing and blowing their heads off it seems boring. Hip hop does sound "current" because the garbage they talk is CURRENT (i.e. twerk, etc.). Some rap rock bands have attempted to stay current by rapping about the current stuff as well but it just doesn't stick.

 

Maybe my complaint is U.S. based but from what I hear from people and labels I've spoken with in the past, overseas is a different scene. Japan still like Guns N' Roses and so on. A lot of the metal bands aren't on current topics and subjects, maybe the video of Lamb of God may be about the war and so on, but you can't understand what cookie monster has to say. A lot of these metal bands are on major label but they aren't crossing over because it seems as if the artists wanted creative control (which is ok if you don't suck) instead of having a knowledgeable A&R team on hand. A lot of these bands are as old as a decade ago as if the major labels aren't nurturing the newer younger bands. Another thing I hate is a bunch of old geezers playing in a rock supergroup. Most of them suck. Velvet Revolver had some songs. I don't think there is a "community" or scene the way the grunge scene was or the Sunset Strip hair metal was. Everything is a bunch of out of shape tattooed guys who likes growling and with obscure death metal t-shirts. They have a following but nothing that can breakthrough.

 

I also think the major companies are responsible for what sticks. Anyone knows that the last Lady Gaga was garbage and her label could easily close their doors on her and find the latest new thing and it's all over for her. Maybe mainstream music isn't meant to last (look at MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice). I think when the majors sees an opportunity to move quick and exploit it sells quick but then dies quick as well. This isn't just in music these days, I think scriptwriting for movies seemed watered down as if the talent is lacking. Not quite sure why this is or has society been easily bored with all the free internet stuff we get (i.e. instant gratification).

 

Also, from what I understand AC/DC played at the 2015 Grammy's (I didn't watch the garbage) but from what I read online they played "Highway to Hell" as if to say their newer **************** isn't up to par with their old ****************, which may be true due to the suggestibility of the whole scenario. I guess this is one of those mainstream moves like Michael Jackson still performing his older hits rather than showcasing his new ones. Just saying. When you look at hip hop they're always showcasing new stuff. When you look at pop as well. They always showcase their latest hits and not reliant on older hits. I think this keeps bands or artists "current" by showing what new stuff they have.

[1001gear]

Like I say, babysitting. They play a moldy and the crowd is instantly on a familiar vibe. Japan's rock scene - they just haven't been through the cycle yet and culturally Asians may be more dedicated to their experiences. Conversely, take Guido. He plays in Vegas. Their passe list is probably a magnitude longer than everything you've ever heard but they know what plays and to who.

[Vito Corleone]

Like I say' date=' babysitting. They play a moldy and the crowd is instantly on a familiar vibe. Japan's rock scene - they just haven't been through the cycle yet and culturally Asians may be more dedicated to their experiences. Conversely, take Guido. He plays in Vegas. Their passe list is probably a magnitude longer than everything you've ever heard but they know what plays and to who.[/quote']

 

Well, I'm not in Vegas. Doing a private event band in Northern California/Nevada. So a bit of everything from Sinatra to current Top 40.

 

But me aside...

 

samal50's post hits on some salient points. Mainstream music isn't meant to last. It never was. Neither was rock music. That some classic bands are still loved decades later is great, but was never the point. Nobody thought we'd all still be listening to Led Zeppelin II 45 years later.

 

Pop music --- rock included --- has always been a flavor-of-the-month, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately business. Your next album doesn't sell and you're probably dropped by the label and gone.

 

Hip hop showcases the new stuff because it is just now starting to have been around long enough to become "classic". So now you have Salt n Pepa selling insurance with their old hits.

 

There will always be new music. Will it involve 4 guys getting together in a garage playing guitars and drums? Probably not.

 

That's OK.

 

[1001gear]

Corrected.

[AJ6stringsting]

Holy crap, you nailed it ....plus it's too time consuming to master an instrument ....

[AJ6stringsting]

Jazz.... can we say Chuck Mangione or Kenny G ( he's a Grover Washington rip off though !!!! )

[AJ6stringsting]

That's a great comment guido. I think the rock music is old. Without anyone overdosing and blowing their heads off it seems boring. Hip hop does sound "current" because the garbage they talk is CURRENT (i.e. twerk, etc.). Some rap rock bands have attempted to stay current by rapping about the current stuff as well but it just doesn't stick.

 

Maybe my complaint is U.S. based but from what I hear from people and labels I've spoken with in the past, overseas is a different scene. Japan still like Guns N' Roses and so on. A lot of the metal bands aren't on current topics and subjects, maybe the video of Lamb of God may be about the war and so on, but you can't understand what cookie monster has to say. A lot of these metal bands are on major label but they aren't crossing over because it seems as if the artists wanted creative control (which is ok if you don't suck) instead of having a knowledgeable A&R team on hand. A lot of these bands are as old as a decade ago as if the major labels aren't nurturing the newer younger bands. Another thing I hate is a bunch of old geezers playing in a rock supergroup. Most of them suck. Velvet Revolver had some songs. I don't think there is a "community" or scene the way the grunge scene was or the Sunset Strip hair metal was. Everything is a bunch of out of shape tattooed guys who likes growling and with obscure death metal t-shirts. They have a following but nothing that can breakthrough.

 

I also think the major companies are responsible for what sticks. Anyone knows that the last Lady Gaga was garbage and her label could easily close their doors on her and find the latest new thing and it's all over for her. Maybe mainstream music isn't meant to last (look at MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice). I think when the majors sees an opportunity to move quick and exploit it sells quick but then dies quick as well. This isn't just in music these days, I think scriptwriting for movies seemed watered down as if the talent is lacking. Not quite sure why this is or has society been easily bored with all the free internet stuff we get (i.e. instant gratification).

 

Also, from what I understand AC/DC played at the 2015 Grammy's (I didn't watch the garbage) but from what I read online they played "Highway to Hell" as if to say their newer **************** isn't up to par with their old ****************, which may be true due to the suggestibility of the whole scenario. I guess this is one of those mainstream moves like Michael Jackson still performing his older hits rather than showcasing his new ones. Just saying. When you look at hip hop they're always showcasing new stuff. When you look at pop as well. They always showcase their latest hits and not reliant on older hits. I think this keeps bands or artists "current" by showing what new stuff they have.

 

Fast Food .... Fast music ..... But (Sh)it sells !!!!

 

[samal50]

Guido, Zeppelin came out in a different time where there was no over saturation of "rock bands", which I think why almost every rock fan then bought a Zeppelin album. There's an intimate connection rather than having a dozen new bands put out an album in a week like these days. These days, you have a dozen new releases a week from new bands you never heard of which is why they get overlooked. I think because some of these bands are signed to their friend's record company.

 

Wasn't there a time when a strong song gets played and pushed to the masses so it becomes a hit and not just every new band having new songs played.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Guido, Zeppelin came out in a different time where there was no over saturation of "rock bands", which I think why almost every rock fan then bought a Zeppelin album. There's an intimate connection rather than having a dozen new bands put out an album in a week like these days. These days, you have a dozen new releases a week from new bands you never heard of which is why they get overlooked. I think because some of these bands are signed to their friend's record company.

 

Wasn't there a time when a strong song gets played and pushed to the masses so it becomes a hit and not just every new band having new songs played.

 

There was a time when the labels and radio more tightly controlled the product and how it was released for sure. How many bands had record deals and which songs got played on radio, etc. Probably arguable if that was actually "better" from an artistic standpoint, but it was great if you were Led Zeppelin, I suppose.

 

The main difference is that rock music was "the voice of the generation" back then. It was our way of defining ourselves and expressing ourselves. It was, in many ways, the only "thing" young people had that was theirs and separate from what their parents were doing.

 

Now, music is just yet-another thing for kids to do. They've got social networking, phones and texting, the internet, a dozen channels on TV geared towards them, movies made for them, etc etc. There's no need to center around music as THE common cultural experience to the degree kids did in the 60s 70s 80s and even into the 90s.

 

So I doubt you're ever going to have another Elvis or Beatles or Zeppelin or Prince or Nirvana who comes along and just coalesces an entire generation with their music. Let alone have all the bands that follow in their footsteps trying a grab a piece of what they are doing.

 

Technology has a lot to do with it too, IMO. The guitar-band-with-drums thing is a product of the 50s and so there was something youthful and exciting and sexy about it all in the 60s 70s and 80s. Now it's kind of an old-man thing. Look at all the ads that pop up on here: mostly all old guys with guitars. I would think to at least some degree a guy with a guitar looks about as sexy to most young girls as did a guy with a trumpet when I was kid.

 

As musicians find their way with new sounds, new technologies and new forms of delivering the music and performing live with it, new stuff will arise that excites people.

 

 

Music will find its way. It always does. Art always does. But I doubt it will ever be that whole youth/rock thing again.

 

 

 

 

[RobRoy]

Rock music IS old peoples music. I haven't heard anything that sounded new or different --- at least certainly not anything that achieved wide mainstream success --- since the mid 90s. TWENTY years ago. Since then, the 'best' rock bands have sounded like old stuff. So I think it's fair to say that rock music has probably run its course.

 

Not that music won't continue to "rock", and that there won't be those new bands and musicians who do the old sounding stuff really well, but will it be dominant like it was from 1955-2000? I don't think so. But hey---40+ years is a great run for any genre.

 

Jazz isn't much different. When was the last time something truly new came along in the jazz genre? Decades ago.

 

It's OK. The good news is that all the old stuff was recorded and we'll have it forever whenever we want it. Let something new come along that gets the kids excited. That's probably a good thing.

 

A friend of mine in Seattle who is NOT a musician facebooked me a couple of weeks ago. He said he's been seeing a lot of live bands the last few months. His main reason for messaging me was to tell me that almost all the bands were old guys.

 

I think "local" rock has finally found that special place that local big bands found in the 80's.

 

I've said for many years that being in a rock band today is like being on a softball team in the late 20th century.

[daddymack]

I've said for many years that being in a rock band today is like being on a softball team in the late 20th century.

minus the scraped knees and torn ligaments...plus the back problems from hoisting PA cabs onto stands...

 

[samal50]

so the future of music is when an artist plays a "live" show, it really means the artist is spinning pre-recorded music on a disk so everyone can hear it? This is cheaper and stress free than having {censored}ty sound guys figure out what sounds good and cheaper than flying 4 drunk guys.

 

I think the reason why major labels are signing EDM "artists" rather than "rock bands" is because an EDM "artist" for the most part has their own studio and requires no super producer to produce an album which cost money. In rock, you must "capture" inspiring moments. In electronics, the presets are already fabulous.

[1001gear]

The future of music fishing might be turnkey EDM shops but fish is the future of fishing not music.

[samal50]

Really?

[Temple of Light]

THE FUTURE IS MINE...so sayeth the young songster...err...minstrel...uhh...singer... Rock as a form was never so much about a category, term or lifestyle, but an ever expanding experience and changing streAm of CONCIOUSNESS, an ever growing body of ideas set forward in motion by the advent of the electronic aGe...

IT HAD NEITHER BOUNDARY NOR LIMITATION...

Fast forward Into the now... now that an entire generation has grown up with electronic gadgetry which explained how all these sounds were created, who knows how many or few have collected the tools which make complex compositions deliverable in a live setting. It's one thing to track a record that plays, and all the BuZ of, in, and by a studio,

but getting all that across in equivalent perfection, fidelity, and performance live is quite another christmas card entirely. Where seemingly does all new music come from nowadays?, a word comes to my mind, collaboration.

Group effort. Group Think. Group Gangsterism. Group Psychosis fueled and abetted by addiction.

Groups of groups of groups of groups of groups of individuals involved in the said delivery of new music.

All these things describe the CURRENT music scene. Solo ARTISTS on the other hand, are coming up with ways to round out performance to symphonic and orchestral standards. As more and more people get access to the tools to master the art of the one band man {or is that a one man band?} mentality, I think a dynamic paradigm shift will take place in the creative center of man allowing for a new context of music to emerge.

One infinitely more inspiring, exciting, revealing and enticing.

The feminine yin is going to win. Don't ask me how I don't know why or how...but I know....

A blending of all things {styles, techs and times} before, call it rock or roll or neo-soul, it wont need a name and will light a new flame & will set an entirely new reality of music and how we react to, understand, and interpret sound.

...perhaps...

or pehaps I'm an old failed ignorant musician no one wants to see anymore...

who's been kicked and shown the door,

cursed, blessed and eternally obsessed...

always a pleasure, nothing else measures.

[Temple of Light]

Accompanying an elemental shift in dynamic and paradigm, will be the requisite number of venues allowing for a hassle free delivery of said context, without which, the making of said shift in dynamic/paradigm/expression,

unpredictable/unlikely/unavailable/unknown.

Musicians are a dying breed, or the saviors of mankind, or merely conduits and channels for energies and entities unknown...? Answer the question for yourself, for I will not.

Are we, we are; reviled, revered, exploited, envied, misdirected, misunderstood, ridiculed and abused, sold and used to no other purpose than the enrichment of evil men who value nothing but money for nothin...

[1001gear]

I hope so. So far all I hear from EDM is pedal points and glitzy 4/4 in 4 bar groups schitt. I do this skip around test with videos and mp3 examples. I listen to the opening seconds and then start skipping forward. You'd be surprised (I just get sick) how many tunes don't change;develop; evolve, past the first group of bars.

[1001gear]

You am a pote. If I had powers I'd be trying out the incantation value of your prose. Srsly I'm not anti tech even though It is functionally life support (think Roach Motel) The problem is the swarming hordes who are statistically mandated to be clueless morons and may or may not rise to eventually recreate the entire works of Kitaro and attain eternal glory. Even the bright ones will be preoccupied with all the ways you can use 16th note offsets - I count 16 but I digress. Kids should be exposed to all the axes of music not just rhythm and gluteal mobility.

[Vito Corleone]

Music---like many/most art forms---evolves around the technology that is used to create it. "Rock" grew largely out of the invention of the electric guitar and the trap kit. When it was discovered that 3 or 4 guys could make "music" using these instruments, they did. And they made music based on the capabilities of the technology. Rock sounded like it did because that's the noise those instruments made. Most of the early stuff was primitive and the mastery of the instruments and true artistry came later.

 

We're in much the same place now. EDM is a product of the technology. Once the technology is mastered, it will be up to the performers to take it beyond the primitive sounds and use and create real art with it. It won't ever sound like "rock" as we know it because it doesn't involve electric guitars and drum kits.

 

And they may not "play" their new instruments in ways that we traditionally think of music being "played" either.

[daddymack]

but is it really music, or is it something else?

I ask because I hear about 'beats', I hear about 'samples', but I don't hear about melody, movements, counterpoint, harmony...you know, the things I studied in college they told me were the underpinnings of music.