Members matthewearly84 Posted December 16, 2012 Members Share Posted December 16, 2012 I am creating a list of questions for musicians that I work with on a daily basis, who want to start generating some real income. This question features as top of my list. Would you consider it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 How much do I have to pay up front, for this chance to "start generating some real income"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 I've actively supported a female singer/songwriter as a backing (live) musician, and also recorded in the studio with her as a session guy. It's hard to apply a generic template to independent / for-hire musicians, as there's a huge variety in pay structure, involvement, co-writing, and performance/writing credits. To give a little more info- I was involved to the point of helping write/arrange, including all my own parts, was given credits on the album, as well as a royalty structure, but not publishing rights. Played gigs for equal share, which sometimes was $0, but other times fairly lucrative, and did not get paid for weekly rehearsals, since I obviously stood to gain by riding coat-tails.Some guys are strictly session guys who charge per song, others charge by the hour. Most for-hire performance musicians have a flat rate for a gig, regardless of what the gig itself pays. I once played a for-hire gig for $100 (2 sets), where the band itself wasn't paid anything but "exposure". Sucks for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by rangefinder How much do I have to pay up front, for this chance to "start generating some real income"? Nothing at all. I give advice to musicians, I'm nice like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by Kramerguy I've actively supported a female singer/songwriter as a backing (live) musician, and also recorded in the studio with her as a session guy. It's hard to apply a generic template to independent / for-hire musicians, as there's a huge variety in pay structure, involvement, co-writing, and performance/writing credits. To give a little more info- I was involved to the point of helping write/arrange, including all my own parts, was given credits on the album, as well as a royalty structure, but not publishing rights. Played gigs for equal share, which sometimes was $0, but other times fairly lucrative, and did not get paid for weekly rehearsals, since I obviously stood to gain by riding coat-tails.Some guys are strictly session guys who charge per song, others charge by the hour. Most for-hire performance musicians have a flat rate for a gig, regardless of what the gig itself pays. I once played a for-hire gig for $100 (2 sets), where the band itself wasn't paid anything but "exposure". Sucks for them Thanks for the awesome reply.Do you think that this is an attitude you will get with age, because at first you may think... I am in a band, it would be selling out to put myself out there?What would the other band members think should you start putting yourself out for hire, as well as working with your own band?Or are these two different questions entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankthomson Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Q: Have you ever or are you willing to work as a session musician for recording and live ?A: sure. why not? its like playing covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankthomson Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by matthewearly84 Thanks for the awesome reply.Do you think that this is an attitude you will get with age, because at first you may think... I am in a band, it would be selling out to put myself out there?What would the other band members think should you start putting yourself out for hire, as well as working with your own band?Or are these two different questions entirely? ....if ur bandmates get pissed, eff em. its a JOB. tell them u dont like where they work! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by frankthomson Q: Have you ever or are you willing to work as a session musician for recording and live ?A: sure. why not? its like playing covers. Its all theoretical and hypothetical at the moment, but thanks for your opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted December 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by matthewearly84 I am creating a list of questions for musicians that I work with on a daily basis, who want to start generating some real income.This question features as top of my list. Have you ever or are you willing to work as a session musician for recording and live Would you consider it? Yes, but these are really two different questions when you get down to it. Studio work is not the same as live backing work. Having done both situations, they don't necessarily attract the same players, either. As you are designing a survey (and having done that before as well) I suggest rephrasing these into two separate questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted December 17, 2012 Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by matthewearly84 Nothing at all. I give advice to musicians, I'm nice like that This is gonna be snarky, but hopefully you won't take it in a mean-spirited way (I'm trying to be helpful...): if you don't already have real strong answers to the questions you're asking, then you might not be helping folks by giving them advice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by scarecrowbob If you don't already have real strong answers to the questions you're asking, then you might not be helping folks by giving them advice... I know what you are trying to say The thing is in the past, I have just given advice about where to play, how to approach promoters etc... Nothing in depth before.Myself and an old friend have a number of contacts, who are musicians, but don't really help themselves that much and expect alot from just being able to pick up an instrument.We want to see how motivated these people actually are when they request for our help.Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 17, 2012 Originally Posted by daddymack Yes, but these are really two different questions when you get down to it. Studio work is not the same as live backing work. Having done both situations, they don't necessarily attract the same players, either. As you are designing a survey (and having done that before as well) I suggest rephrasing these into two separate questions. I see your point, and I agree.This isn't really a survey, as I would be literally asking the questions, not reeling one after the other (such as a non-dependable survey). So if they were to say yay or ney, I could then go in further, but you are right... they are totally different arenas so to speak, so I shall split it into two questions.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bim1959 Posted December 18, 2012 Members Share Posted December 18, 2012 I am currently "hired gun" for a local female artist and I've done studio work in the past for both an hourly rate as well as a per song rate. The main thing you have to remember as a hired gun is that you basically have no say in the band as far as what songs you play and how you play your part. This gal had her songs recorded by someone else in the studio and they want them played as-is with no artistic license and the covers we play they want played as close to the original as possible. At first during a live show she would announce who we the hired guns are but she's been getting away from all that and nomatter how much she says we are equals I keep hearing about "knowing my role." Hopefully other artists are better but you have to remember you're there to make them sound good and you usually wont get credit for anything you do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 18, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 18, 2012 Originally Posted by Bim1959 I am currently "hired gun" for a local female artist and I've done studio work in the past for both an hourly rate as well as a per song rate.The main thing you have to remember as a hired gun is that you basically have no say in the band as far as what songs you play and how you play your part. This gal had her songs recorded by someone else in the studio and they want them played as-is with no artistic license and the covers we play they want played as close to the original as possible. At first during a live show she would announce who we the hired guns are but she's been getting away from all that and nomatter how much she says we are equals I keep hearing about "knowing my role." Hopefully other artists are better but you have to remember you're there to make them sound good and you usually wont get credit for anything you do.... WOW! It sounds like you're working with Buddy Rich Thanks for your input and insight into what it's perhaps like to work as a hired gun.Its great to have perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hamza hashmi Posted December 27, 2012 Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 right now i would work for free because it could really give me some experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2012 Originally Posted by hamza hashmi right now i would work for free because it could really give me some experience. That's good to know that there are people out there who truly want to get on and gain experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted December 28, 2012 Members Share Posted December 28, 2012 Originally Posted by matthewearly84 Thanks for the awesome reply.Do you think that this is an attitude you will get with age, because at first you may think... I am in a band, it would be selling out to put myself out there?What would the other band members think should you start putting yourself out for hire, as well as working with your own band?Or are these two different questions entirely? Sorry I'm late with a reply.. forgot to check back in this forum..It's not selling out to put ones self out there. The whole fascination that musicians have with "selling out" is actually hypocritical, as every last one of a musicians influences had to sell out at some point in order to be heard. It's not selling out, it's business. That's why it's called the music business.I don't know what a band would think if you suddenly decided to put yourself out there. I'm lucky that in my circumstance, I had auditioned for both in the same week, so when both asked me to join, and the possibility of scheduling conflicts seemed very low, I told both up front and both accepted the situation. I'm sure that most bands would feel angry if a member started devoting time to another band, but my take is that so long as it doesn't affect their preparedness or performance, and schedules are kept up, then who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted December 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2012 Originally Posted by Kramerguy Sorry I'm late with a reply.. forgot to check back in this forum..It's not selling out to put ones self out there. The whole fascination that musicians have with "selling out" is actually hypocritical, as every last one of a musicians influences had to sell out at some point in order to be heard. It's not selling out, it's business. That's why it's called the music business.I don't know what a band would think if you suddenly decided to put yourself out there. I'm lucky that in my circumstance, I had auditioned for both in the same week, so when both asked me to join, and the possibility of scheduling conflicts seemed very low, I told both up front and both accepted the situation. I'm sure that most bands would feel angry if a member started devoting time to another band, but my take is that so long as it doesn't affect their preparedness or performance, and schedules are kept up, then who cares? Thanks for your response. Some great points made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aj_guitarist Posted December 31, 2012 Members Share Posted December 31, 2012 Having done alot of both. They are different and require different skills hense why some are road guys and others just do studio work. Studio - its about getting everything right. the right sound, the right part, and understanding what the producer is talking about (i have worked for some who play keys or don't play anything). Most of the time, you have to get it first or second take. Its harder than it looks but you have to be good a range of things. Live - it could be as easy as something like the CD (well Mp3!) or exactly like the CD. or the artist asks you to come up with something on the spot (like you would doing studio work). Most session work is based on you being there (but not). its critical to be able to preform, deliever and be a nice person, as noone wants to spend days/weeks with arseholes on a bus travelling the country. the real question is real is there work out there? Also are you as good as someone like - Ben Jones or Joseph Ross (uk session guitarists). hope that helps. happy to talk with you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matthewearly84 Posted January 1, 2013 Author Members Share Posted January 1, 2013 Originally Posted by aj_guitarist Having done alot of both. They are different and require different skills hense why some are road guys and others just do studio work.Studio - its about getting everything right. the right sound, the right part, and understanding what the producer is talking about (i have worked for some who play keys or don't play anything). Most of the time, you have to get it first or second take. Its harder than it looks but you have to be good a range of things. Live - it could be as easy as something like the CD (well Mp3!) or exactly like the CD. or the artist asks you to come up with something on the spot (like you would doing studio work). Most session work is based on you being there (but not). its critical to be able to preform, deliever and be a nice person, as noone wants to spend days/weeks with arseholes on a bus travelling the country.the real question is real is there work out there? Also are you as good as someone like - Ben Jones or Joseph Ross (uk session guitarists). hope that helps. happy to talk with you more. Great feedback, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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