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How artists make money now


richardmac

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I spent this past week home in bed with a bad case of shingles (still hurts like hell) and got a chance to see the live stream from many sessions at the Future of Music Policy Summit. There was some really good stuff. The quotes from the summit are making their way around the web now, and I saw this interesting quote and wanted to get people's take on it:

 

" "Old model: get signed or get lost. New model: fan relationships create a value pipeline...(The new artist) revenue pie chart: gigs 35 %, merch 17 %, digital sales 11 %, cds 6 %, royalties 9 %." - Jed Carlson, ReverbNation"

 

I suspect he's talking about bands that can tour a bit. What do you folks think about this quote?

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Yep. That's why I shut my own band down in 2004 (I recently restarted it with some different goals). There is a blues legend named Lucky Peterson who I was lucky enough (no pun intended) to get to play with for two nights. We were sitting around after the second night and he told me that if I was going to 'make it' in music, I had to hit the road. He said he was on the road about 280-300 days a year.

 

And I thought to myself, here's a guy who's made about 8 albums, been on national television, has a record deal just about every big time blues legend alive, and is a phenomenal singer, keyboard player and guitar player, yet her he is, driving around the country in an 8 year old minivan pulling a trailer playing the same clubs I am (albeit fort a bit more money) with no end in sight. And that's when it hit me: traveling is the job. Yes, you have to sell merch, play well, and promote, but if you aren't out beating the highway, you won't make it. Ironically, if you do hit the road, you won't make much, either, unless you're in the upper echelon of your genre.

 

I'll post this vid just to show you how amazing this guy is, and to make the point that if it's like this for guys like him, what chance do we mere mortals have, really?

 

 

[YOUTUBE]cMgTp8UCj2I&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

Not saying it isn't possible, but I think most of us go into it not fully realizing what a truly uphill journey it really is. Then again, maybe if we did, none of us would undertake it at all!

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I like to believe many of us do it knowing what's in store. There really is nothing like this sort of life and I wouldn't trade it for a thing.

 

"I left my girl for a guitar//Now I can play all night long." - The Exit

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I like to believe many of us do it knowing what's in store.

I like to believe it too, but when I was pursuing it, I was constantly being surprised, shocked or dismayed at finding things out as I went. Things like how moving up to the 'next level' isn't a quantum leap for most of us, but rather a small increase in the size of our circle,only still having to start al over again at that level. And realizing that there may be 3, or 5, or 15 more of these 'levels' to pass through, each level with it's own set of rules and problems, much like a video game. I was aware of the corruption of some promoters and presenters, but you're still never prepared for how blatant and cruel it sometimes is when you experience it yourself. Seeing promoters at the concert/large festival level get bribed by other bands' management, and the same promoters expecting it from us, and so on. Having other bands spread false rumors about your band to try to keep you from getting booked (One band had told a promoter that I had started banging heroin and drinking and had become unreliable, even though I've been clean and sober for 31 years). One of my friends signed to Blind Pig Records being assured he had rights to production oversight only to have his record remixed after he was gone back out on the road (they made his blues record sound like a pop album), and then finding out his publishing agreement had been changed, and that he was getting no tour support. He signed an exclusive with a big talent agency but was later told that they couldn't book him much because no one knew who he was, and they had to concentrate on their bread and butter acts.

 

I could go on and on, but the point is, the higher you go in the business, the more you find out 1) how far it really is to get where you want to be, and 2) how absolutely corrupt the business end of it can be, and no one can fully prepare for that or know what they're getting into until they do it, IMO.

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Wow - that guy smokes. I saw Jimmy McGriff years ago - he was amazing too and put on a really entertaining show. Saw him at a jazz festival along with David Sanborn. David Sanborn played scales as fast as he possibly could, which bored me to tears. Top notch band, though.

 

HC is an interesting place. Far too much emphasis is placed here on either how you can make it or how you can never make it. We talk about it way too much. The real reality to music is, are you having fun? If you are touring 300 days a year, do you love it? Because if you do, keep doing it! Enjoy what you do. One day you won't love it any more, and at that point, find something else to do. If you don't love it, don't do it. Because the doubters are right - it's not sustainable as a career, you're going to end up doing something else for a living. But that's true of most of us - the average person changes careers a lot.

 

I love writing and recording music, and I love performing it to an audience. It's fun. That's why I do it. I am also very very interested in the business side of it from a hobby standpoint. I like talking about microphone techniques, how to sell CD's at gigs, how to promote yourself, the future of the music biz, all that stuff. It's all interesting. I know that hobbyist musicians can make money, even if it's just a small amount.

 

I think even hobbyists should be serious about what they do, which includes marketing and advertising and all that jazz. If you are playing a gig once a month to 20 people, then the next step is to play to 50 people. That sort of thing. What interests me about the Jed Carlson quote is how musicians who are at the next level up from me are making money. Maybe some strategies the semi-pros use can work for amateurs.

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As far as all that pounding the pavement goes ; you might end up with more $$$ if you just learn to drive a Semi !!!!!!!! I think that's what allot of the allure of the web is now ( combined w/ all the whiz bang recording softwares ) ..... Just throw your stuff up on youtuba , and you'll be discoverd ( or at least you can make a "middle Class living ) . MIddle class ?? The way things a re going , there won't be a middle class to buy these ...

 

pt-B_13956_002!AMTEE.jpg

from you !!!!.

 

 

I wanna be Steely Dan !!!!!!!

 

 

 

The solution to "monetization" has'nt really been worked out yet as far as I can tell.

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LOL - you'd be driving around the country meeting interesting people either way, right? :)

 

It is totally possible to be an artist who does no gigs and releases music totally online and gains a following. Totally possible. You just won't make any money. Some artists won't care - they'll do it anyway because they're doing it for fun. Do they hurt things for the rest of us? Doesn't matter. There are certainly easier ways to make a living than music. Like doing just about anything else.

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I think a lot of artists and musicians forget about the essence of their craft. Music isn't something that is tangible; you can't hold it in your hand, you can't eat it, you can't sit on it or sleep on it or even drink it. How then, can one expect to transform something of a "ephemeral" nature into something physical such as money?

 

Such is the essence of art and music. The instruments that you employ, such as a paintbrush, computer, guitar, voice, etc. are physical things used to create this "spirit". Art and music just exist. You can't really quantify their value because they are not of material existence! Sure there have been many people who have been able to turn music into lots of money, but those who do are missing out on what their craft really means.

 

And anyone should not be surprised by scum bags and the dark side of the music industry, because the "music industry" itself IS the dark side. It's akin to charging someone to breath air. It is the dark side if you wish to evoke a "following" for yourself.

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I don't understand what this means. Artists should not seek an audience? Should art not be enjoyed by others? Why on earth would an artist not want to be seen or heard?

 

 

Because the artist is forgetting that it isn't about him, it is about the work. The work exists, it is there, separate from him. Self promotion is the dark side. The music industry is itself self promotion. Does a song exist any less or more whether 5 people hear it or 5,000,000 people hear it?

 

You want to transform a formless entity into a material reward? That is an insult to the Muse! And she will punish you if you so happen to delve into the pits of the music industry to promote yourself. If a song is meant to be heard, it will be heard by the person or persons that are meant to hear it.

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I could go on and on, but the point is, the higher you go in the business, the more you find out 1) how far it really is to get where you want to be, and 2) how absolutely corrupt the business end of it can be, and no one can fully prepare for that or know what they're getting into until they do it, IMO.

 

 

I like how you phrased that. I recently had the opportunity to interview a guy from a popular stoner rock group called Baroness. He told me that as they've moved up the music biz food chain, they've found that their initial goals and desires have not changed, but as soon as they hit some of those goals they have to constantly modify their own personal expectations in order to truly meet them. So far they're signed to a large indie label (Relapse records) and since that signing have acquired distribution rights and privileges in large record and retail outlets such as Best Buy and Target. But the guy still describes their experience as putting together pieces of puzzle of which they can only vaguely fathom or picture.

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How? Would that not require performing it, or making it available online for listening? Aren't both of those promotion?

 

 

Sure its song promotion not self promotion. No one cares about the performer just the songs he performs. I write songs and I perform them I don't put them online. I really don't want people to know who I am, I guess I'm different in the regard.

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You want to transform a
formless
entity into a material reward? That is an insult to the Muse! And she
will
punish you if you so happen to delve into the pits of the music industry to promote
yourself
. If a song is meant to be heard, it will be heard by the person or persons that are meant to hear it.

 

 

This IS the music business forum...

 

If an artist is so inclined to work at there craft full time it becomes a necessary evil to promote yourself. Unless you have a rich spouse or the like. You are creating something and sharing it with others. The people who enjoy your music are willing to support your effort to continue creating it. This is not evil any more than the farmer selling food because people like to eat.

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Yeah... I thought this was going somewhere bizarre. Just wanted to see HOW bizarre.

 

espec10001, You don't want people to know who you are. Mission accomplished. You don't want your music to be heard online. Done. This forum is not the right place for you - you've already arrived at your goal.

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This
IS
the music business forum...


If an artist is so inclined to work at there craft full time it becomes a necessary evil to promote yourself. Unless you have a rich spouse or the like. You are creating something and sharing it with others. The people who enjoy your music are willing to support your effort to continue creating it. This is not evil any more than the farmer selling food because people like to eat.

 

 

Yeah and you should be promoting the songs, not yourself. It is the work that should speak for itself. But we all know that the "music" industry is all about "image", hence the cesspool of leeches that are lurking around every corner of the music industry.

 

The farmer grows food for people to eat because the food he produces is his work that is sold. He's not promoting himself at all, his product speaks for itself. If you are a musician, the songs you produce are your product. Why is it so hard for a musician to understand that if you want to sell "yourself", then you'll get what you asked for. Who cares who Bob Dylan and John Lennon and all the famous musicians are, it's about the songs they wrote. They say "Here's what I'm selling, take it or leave it". Do people care who Picasso was? No, they care about his works. Do people care who Mozart was? No, they care about his works.

 

You go to a job interview, you are selling your education, experience, and skills. No one cares who you are, only what you produce. If you feel that promoting yourself is more important than promoting the songs, then you might as well become a prostitute because that is what the music industry is.

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Yeah and you should be promoting the
songs
, not
yourself
. It is the work that should speak for itself. But we all know that the "music" industry is all about "image", hence the cesspool of leeches that are lurking around every corner of the music industry.


The farmer grows food for people to eat because the food he produces is his work that is sold. He's not promoting
himself
at all, his product speaks for itself. If you are a musician, the songs you produce are your product. Why is it so hard for a musician to understand that if you want to sell "yourself", then you'll get what you asked for. Who cares who Bob Dylan and John Lennon and all the famous musicians are, it's about the songs they wrote. They say "Here's what I'm selling, take it or leave it". Do people care who Picasso was? No, they care about his
works
. Do people care who Mozart was? No, they care about his
works
.


You go to a job interview, you are selling your education, experience, and skills.
No one cares who you are
, only what you produce. If you feel that promoting yourself is more important than promoting the songs, then you might as well become a prostitute because that is what the music industry is.

 

 

 

What a crock. My songs are a reflection of who I am, pure and simple. You hear one of my songs, you are learning something about me. Maybe YOU don't care who an artist is, but lots of people do. And like it or not, the personality of the artist goes a long way to getting the song heard, especially by unknowns.

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What a crock. My songs are a reflection of who I am, pure and simple. You hear one of my songs, you are learning something about me. Maybe YOU don't care who an artist is, but lots of people do. And like it or not, the personality of the artist goes a long way to getting the song heard, especially by unknowns.

 

 

This is pretty much the way I feel too. I find it insulting when people say things like "I can't relate to your songs" (one guy said that to me, but he was a severe alcoholic/womanizer so maybe he wasn't my target audience). I may not be the best lyricist in the world, but my heart and soul goes into every song I create. A piece of me is shared with everyone. Some have been moved by them, others go "I'll pass, thanks." Nobody is going to like everything that is presented to them. That doesn't mean it isn't a personal experience.

 

If what espec10001 is saying was true, why would anyone care to learn all about an artist by reading their every Twitter thought, their blog, their posts on message boards (such as this one), their photos shot while at premieres of things, unflattering photos in tabloids, etc.? Eh, I don't buy it. And I don't think it's because people are whoring themselves out in every case.

 

Maybe as a kid, I didn't care who wrote the songs. I just enjoyed them. But I also appreciated that there was a person or persons who wrote them. I tried to find out who did create the songs I liked, not just be satisfied with "oh there's a song, nice...next."

 

There may have been love put into the creation of a farmer's food, but I seriously doubt people are going to want to learn what that farmer's favorite color is, where he lives, what kind of clothes he likes to wear, what his thoughts on the economy are, his political thoughts, his religious beliefs, etc. In THAT case, what he creates is his work and that's that. Not so with an artist.

 

I don't see anything evil about a person selling music he created. It's that person's choice to choose to sell it or give it away as they see fit. It's up to everyone else to decide whether or not they want to buy it.

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It would be interesting to get this thread back on topic, even at the risk of offending "01" and his muse. It's pretty easy to bitch about things. Some of us are here to talk about music and business and find answers.

 

I think people want music that is honest, different, and make them feel something. I think you can earn money doing live shows, and you can sell CD's at live shows, and you can sell music online. I think that even if you're only selling one CD a month, you're still accomplishing something. You're having fun, you're getting listeners. Better than sitting on the couch complaining about the big bad music industry and how unfair life is.

 

I'm not sure how merch can be applied to the little guys, though - the guys who don't tour. I think we have too narrow a definition of "merch." One interesting idea I read about was selling sheet music (or tabs) for your songs. I think that's pretty cool - I could do that with one of my songs, maybe.

 

The other question is "royalties." Was he talking performance royalties, like radio play, or more like getting your music in a commercial? I think that getting your music on a show on TV is cool, but since people have figured out that it's one of the last places you can earn money, the competition is huge. You have to wonder if it makes sense to put a ton of energy and effort into it. It's like the whole Taxi thing. You know the one thing that prevents me from joining Taxi? The fact that you have to pay money each time you submit a song. If the whole thing cost $300 per year and you could submit up to 5 songs a month, I would have tried it already. It just seems like you put your $300 up, and then if you're not constantly spending MORE money, you're wasting your membership. I don't like the idea of throwing all that money out there. It's almost like "Here's a talent show, send in your song with $5, and oh by the way, it's totally possible that no one will win." Swell.

 

Small time artists have limited time and very limited budgets. It's hard to know where to spend your time. I spend too much time on HC, that's for sure. I need to spend more time practicing and writing new songs.

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I'm not sure how merch can be applied to the little guys, though - the guys who don't tour. I think we have too narrow a definition of "merch." One interesting idea I read about was selling sheet music (or tabs) for your songs. I think that's pretty cool - I could do that with one of my songs, maybe.

 

 

 

If they do get merch, it's an investment that can take awhile to get a return. Without buying in quantity, you'll lose the ability to generate a good profit.

 

I say come up with something unique. I myself am working on a series of unique posters that people can collect.

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It's interesting really... and I don't mean to veer back off topic but I do somewhat relate with what Espec says. I think it is very sad that we live in a time where I read much more about an artist's marketing than their music itself- but it is what is happening. Honestly I don't really understand it- there are only 12 notes one can play- could we have run out of interesting words to describe said notes? Not sure.

 

Sadly "dude releases album" just isn't newsworthy anymore so we wind up hearing about the way Imogene Heap and Amanda Palmer use twitter to make money... I don't think I've heard any of Amanda Palmer's music since the first Dresden Dolls record but I her about HER all the time and that press brings her a following not only of her music but of her lifestyle... it's weird but it seems she makes a great living.

 

So for better or for worse- it has become self promotion... we do know every time Courtney Love takes a dump (literally or figuratively take your pick).

 

Musicians are a funny bunch we spend so much of our time marketing to other musicians (deliberately? I don't know- maybe it's just what is comfortable) rather than seeking out rising film makers, software and web designers- hell even painters could probably use someone with an acoustic to keep people starring at their next exhibit...

 

I'm in New York - I love walking out of the music buildings there and overhearing the total BS between band guys. (side note: black zildjian tee-shirt... roughly one in eight people wearing this...God forbid I was at a drum clinic) "Totally have label interest man, they were checking us out...bla bla bla" It's always one of those conversations where the person not speaking isn't listening but just waiting to tell his story of how great they are doing. Point being I guess they might do better telling a banker who spends 70 hours a week at a soul crushing job and wonders what it's like to have a musician's life- he might care.

 

Back on point... $$$

 

It is all about the live show... I always say this but your single is your business card and your album is your resume (God knows people aren't buying them like they used to). The product for most developing artists I know is their live show and merch. There are those who make some money on licensing but that (as you all know) is a super crowded space. If you have a draw live you can start to talk local businesses into parting with free goods or a bit of cash to expose their products to your crowd. The mailing list is everything these days...

 

If you aren't at that stage where you've got a few markets to play to and a dedicated fan base then (in my experience) it's covers, session work, voice-overs or the ever popular waiting tables until you've built something up. I've done all four actually. I probably made the most waiting tables :(

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I think there is some merit in what espec10001 is saying in that one typically does need to make some sacrifice in their craft in order to market themselves effectively. Either the business end of your craft takes your time or you even write music that you are not fully invested in such as jingles (although I would add that I believe that writing jingles makes you a tradesman and there is nothing wrong with that).

 

This is a decision that all artists find themselves faced with at some point. To sell or not to sell. There is, IMO, a strong argument to keep your passion as your hobby and it sounds to me like espec10001 would like to do just that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and it enables one to remain a purist. So, rock on man.

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espec10001, You don't want people to know who you are. Mission accomplished. You don't want your music to be heard online. Done. This forum is not the right place for you - you've already arrived at your goal

 

+1

And please stop with the bold print every few words

 

 

I dont think the percentages are correct concerning the solo singer songwriter.

Seems to me there are more cd sales because its a more up close and personal experience between the listener and musician, and the listener wants to purchase to support that musician. I've been watching my Idols do this for several years. Going to a Smither show next week and I bet he sells a ton of the new CD.

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