How Many Of You...

[Nick*]

I'm not really too familiar with this section. I don't really post or read much around here.

 

But I'm curious...how many of you are holding out for stardom?

 

I'm going to be turning 21 in a couple weeks, and so I've been thinking back to when I first starting playing/writing music (last year of high school). Since I'm still kind of young, I understand the whole thing about imagining making a career out of music- everybody can live the fantasy out through their heads at least.

 

But to be honest, I'm wondering how much harm this can all be. I may have thought or dreamed of the idea of making a career out of music, but I slapped myself in the face and woke up to the real world. Unfortunately, I know so many people who aren't willing to do that. Some people get hope from somewhere and think that they can make their fantasy a reality.

 

I wouldn't mind being a rockstar. I wouldn't mind being a millionaire. And I also wouldn't mind growing wings and flying...but it ain't going to happen.

 

Maybe I'm a bit ignorant about the music business. Maybe I'm ignorant in general. And maybe my post seems a bit depressing or pessimistic...and I'm sorry about that. But I find it to be sooo depressing to meet with people who are sold on the idea of living off of music.

 

Like I said, I would love to make a living off of music. I'd love to jam and collaborate with some of my favorite musicians. I love the idea of it all. But I don't like trying to convince myself of it. Whatever...maybe I shouldn't have posted this here...Sorry...I'm off to jam.

[richardmac]

Wow. Your post was depressing, and... totally correct.

 

I think, though, if I may comment, that this is really putting a negative spin on a positive thing. I'm thrilled to be a musician and a singer/songwriter. I have zero expectations of making it a career, and I don't want to make it a career. I love music. Have my whole life. I'm lucky to have such a thing... I know guys who jump from hobby to hobby, dumping each one when they get bored, looking for something and never finding it.

 

Not me. I play a gig and I get in the zone and really feel it, and someone gives me a compliment or buys a CD, and I feel awesome. I think it's great when a little kid comes up shyly and puts money into the tip jar. They're seeing live music! Maybe it'll have an influence on them. Maybe they'll want to play an instrument, if they see it enough themselves. I thought it was cooler than hell when I was a kid and we saw someone play live music.

 

To me, those who are have some musical talent and love playing music are very fortunate. And even though you love it, there's no reason to not make a little money doing it. We all need money. So long as the money doesn't become the major thing... unless of course you're trying for a career in music.

 

I just got a Telecaster and I joined a Telecaster forum. Those people are nuts. They're totally in love with the Tele. Me too. But you read some of the threads and it just jumps out at you, what these instruments mean to these people. It's awesome. No one is talking about making it. They're talking about what the best pickups are and such.

 

But... soooo many people are, as you say, holding out for stardom. They want to become a superstar and anything else won't do. This can be dangerous and destructive, and in some cases, can end up actually killing the person's love of music. They put so much pressure on themselves and when they fail, they feel like they've failed in life. Nonsense. The Music BUSINESS is a business. A lot of things have to click to be a superstar and the odds are that it won't happen for any of us. There's nothing depressing about that. Music is supposed to be fun, to enrich your life. If you can make a living at it, in any way shape or form, and that's what you want to do, great. If it's a hobby that you love, great. Whatever the case, just enjoy it. That's my take.

[theboywho]

I think if you are holding out for stardom then you are being too optimistic. Even though loads of stars say they knew they were going to make it there must be much more who get nowhere who think the same.

 

I'm pretty much sure that I'll never make it to a level of stardom where I'll make it to being a millionaire, my ideal situation with this would be to get to the level where we don't have to pay ourselves to put out records or to go on tours, but I doubt there is any chance my music will ever pay enough for me to live of it for the smallest amount of time.

[Nick*]

Once again, I'm sorry for the depressing post. I'm not trying to bring anybody down. I think it is more of a personal issue. I love writing music. And to be honest, I would love to write an entire album, make copies and just give them out for free- for fun. And I think I will set that as a goal for me in the future. However, when I hang around with people who think so far beyond this, it depresses me. I don't like the idea of thinking about being "famous." And everywhere I turn I feel like people are talking about me, them or someone they know making it huge in the music business. Whether they talk about me, them, or the person they know, it depresses me. I really can't stand hearing it anymore.

 

I'm really sorry I posted this. For some reason turning 21 and facing my final time in college has really got me down. I always thought it would be the opposite....

 

Like I said..I'm really sorry....

[richardmac]

Then what you're really talking about is tolerance. You need to tolerate those people. Our society pumps us full of this nonsense - that all you need is a dream and hard work. It's not true. But people buy into it. They read the interview with Joe Superstar who says "You have to believe in yourself. If you believe, it can happen." Well, mathematically, it can... just like someone will win the lottery - it just won't be you.

 

It's not depressing at all. I like to run, and I like to play catch with a football. I'm not depressed that I'm not a wide receiver for an NFL team. You can get depressed when you don't accept yourself for who you ARE.

 

Writing an entire album and making a CD is a good goal. It's totally possible. It's a fun experience. You'll learn a lot. Giving it away for free is a personal choice. If you do that, do it online. Giving away CD's will literally cost you money. But if your music ends up being really good, some people might want a CD of it. Not a burned CD, but a real one. If your music is good, it deserves to be sold on CD. That's just my opinion.

 

I was you, by the way. I was in my senior year of college, coming to the realization that I wasn't going to be a rock star. I was writing music that I thought was pretty good. Looking back, the music that I write now is far, far superior. You have a whole lifetime to write music. I got a little too hung up on not making it when I was younger and it depressed me to the point of putting down my instrument. Please don't ever make that mistake. Music is supposed to enrich our lives, not depress us. It's all about having fun and enjoying music. You have a knowledge that the other guys around you seem to lack. You just need to show some tolerance for them. They'll eventually figure it out on their own.

[Synonym Music]

It's not depressing at all. I like to run, and I like to play catch with a football. I'm not depressed that I'm not a wide receiver for an NFL team. You can get depressed when you don't accept yourself for who you ARE.

It can get even more depressing when you find out it's something in the music industry. The rabbit hole can get incredibly deep... Honestly I did not develop a talent for mixing. It was there forever. The innate attraction was off the charts.

 

Performance, OTOH... Now there's something I really hated.

[Nick*]

I suppose you are right. Tolerance is the issue. It just annoys me that when I talk realistic, then I become the bad guy.

 

And writing a complete CD is a very exciting goal of mine. Hopefully when I can come along a little further with my home studio I will get that done- and I know I can do it because I've come a long way already. I'm not at all pessimistic about writing a CD. To be honest, I am extremely confident about it...maybe too confident. I know it would cost me money, but I don't care. I want to write something great, whether one person hears it, or 1 million people hear it....but I guess that isn't everyone's goal.

 

I don't know. I wish people cared more about writing for themselves than for anyone else. And starting projects with people now, me being the singer/songwriter, I feel like I have to please them in a certain way. I feel like a weird pressure on me to keep their hopes high, both in and out of the music.

[richardmac]

 

I don't know. I wish people cared more about writing for themselves than for anyone else. And starting projects with people now, me being the singer/songwriter, I feel like I have to please them in a certain way. I feel like a weird pressure on me to keep their hopes high, both in and out of the music.

 

 

Songs are interesting things. The thing I like about being totally solo is that I make all the decisions for all the parts. The reality is this - if I could go into the studio for 5 months with some insanely talented musicians, I would give them my parts as a starting point and then let them do their thing, because they'd come up with something much better than I could. But I don't have that kind of money. And the players that I can get for free are no better at bass or drums or whatever than I am.

 

But technology has helped out a lot. Drums on Demand, for example, sound better than any amateur drummer you're going to get into the studio. Bass samples have come a long way. I got "Bass Track of the Day" on garageband.com on a song where I played the bass on keyboard. Go figure.

 

Bands are great because the sum of the whole can be greater, and all that stuff. But bands for the most part don't last.

[Nick*]

 

But technology has helped out a lot. Drums on Demand, for example, sound better than any amateur drummer you're going to get into the studio. Bass samples have come a long way. I got "Bass Track of the Day" on garageband.com on a song where I played the bass on keyboard. Go figure.

 

 

 

I don't mind playing all the instruments. My biggest problem is drums though since I don't have a drum set. What is that Drums on Demand exactly?

[richardmac]

 

What is that Drums on Demand exactly?

 

 

It's a company that makes drum loops in every style of music. They record a real drummer, and from that create 4 or 8 (or whatever) bar samples. They'll give you verse samples, chorus samples, various fills, etc. You put the loops together to form your drum track.

 

They sound like real drums because they are real drums. Truthfully, they sound like a top notch drummer playing it safe. But that's still better than a mediocre amateur drummer.

[Nick*]

 

It's a company that makes drum loops in every style of music. They record a real drummer, and from that create 4 or 8 (or whatever) bar samples. They'll give you verse samples, chorus samples, various fills, etc. You put the loops together to form your drum track. They sound like real drums because they are real drums. Truthfully, they sound like a top notch drummer playing it safe. But that's still better than a mediocre amateur drummer.

 

 

 

That sounds amazing. How do you fit the drum patterns to your tempos and time signatures though? And how much does this cost? I'm very interested in this.

[Synonym Music]

 

But technology has helped out a lot. Drums on Demand, for example, sound better than any amateur drummer you're going to get into the studio. Bass samples have come a long way. I got "Bass Track of the Day" on garageband.com on a song where I played the bass on keyboard. Go figure.

 

Anyone who charges a dime for musicianship needs to be at least good. Otherwise they're worth nothing.

 

If you're getting people to play for free then there's no room to complain, but once the billing hours start, there better damn well be some talent.

[richardmac]

 

That sounds amazing. How do you fit the drum patterns to your tempos and time signatures though? And how much does this cost? I'm very interested in this.

 

 

They give you a bunch of different loop "songs," from 60 bpm up to like 160 bpm. For each "song," you get verse, chorus, intro, fills, and so on. They sell in various different formats... I get the Apple Loops format, which works with Logic and GarageBand.

 

Here's the link to them:

http://www.drumsondemand.com

 

Here's a rough mix of a track of mine where I used Drums on Demand:

 

http://www.myspace.com/richardmaclemale

[Nick*]

 

They give you a bunch of different loop "songs," from 60 bpm up to like 160 bpm. For each "song," you get verse, chorus, intro, fills, and so on. They sell in various different formats... I get the Apple Loops format, which works with Logic and GarageBand. Here's the link to them: http://www.drumsondemand.com Here's a rough mix of a track of mine where I used Drums on Demand: http://www.myspace.com/richardmaclemale

 

 

 

Wow, drums sound amazing. I'm very interested. However, you cannot alter the bpm? You would have to write your song around the bpm available? I definitely like the idea of this. I'm going to have to look into this. From what I see on the the "Solid Rock" it has 23 deep Song Sets, which translates to 1200 loops? I don't completely understand it quite yet. I'm going to have to sit down and figure this out. But I REALLY love the idea of this.

[mertaux5]

I'm interested too. Can you please post more details?

 

 

 

 

That sounds amazing. How do you fit the drum patterns to your tempos and time signatures though? And how much does this cost? I'm very interested in this.

 

[bcolburn]

When you buy a disc from DOD, you can choose from different song speeds. There'll be (just tossing out a number here), 10 folders of songs, and you can choose from:

 

55 BPM

70 BPM

85 BPM

97 BPM

110 BPM

125 BPM

141 BPM

160 BPM

175 BPM

190 BPM

 

Mind you, I just made those BPM's up -- each and every disc has different ones. For the more advanced users, they have the multitrack editions, which you can actually lay out each and every drum on a different channel. The drums are recorded dry -- so you can compress / eq / mix them to your liking.

 

The only *down* sides to DOD:

- You can only work with what's given

- Tempo changes aren't the easiest (if you have songs that require that)

- You only have *so* many fills to choose from (if you get lazy, the song can sound very 'scripted'

 

However, I will say that I have worked with, and think they sound great. Since my music is more light and acoustic -- some of the sets are a little "heavier" then I would normally work with -- but that's just me.

[John Bartus]

In regards to the drum loop question, most modern DAWs allow the user to change tempo on loops without altering pitch.

 

In regards to the original topic, a person can make a living at music without being a rock star. I've been playing and recording music professionally for nearly 30 years. I gig 4-5 nights a week (1-2 with my band, the rest solo), I've put out a vinyl LP, a cassette, and three CDs (mostly all original), I have my own studio where I produce my stuff as well as other musicians and outside projects, and I live in a place where I don't have to go on the road to make it all happen (although I did the road for 3+ years way back in the early 80s).

 

It really depends upon what you define your success to be. That, and if you offer something that people will pay for, be that live gigs, CDs, downloads, or a combination of all the above.

 

You're 21 -- there are a lot of years ahead of you. Don't waste your 20s. Get out there and make something happen. Become part of your local music scene. Create one if one doesn't exist. Now more than ever is the time when a musician has the tools to create his own success. (You already have your own studio -- see?) But it's not easy. Then again, nothing worthwhile ever is.

 

Sorry for the long (and long in the tooth) post. Good luck and kick some ass.

[Nick*]

 

In regards to the drum loop question, most modern DAWs allow the user to change tempo on loops without altering pitch. In regards to the original topic, a person can make a living at music without being a rock star. I've been playing and recording music professionally for nearly 30 years. I gig 4-5 nights a week (1-2 with my band, the rest solo), I've put out a vinyl LP, a cassette, and three CDs (mostly all original), I have my own studio where I produce my stuff as well as other musicians and outside projects, and I live in a place where I don't have to go on the road to make it all happen (although I did the road for 3+ years way back in the early 80s). It really depends upon what you define your success to be. That, and if you offer something that people will pay for, be that live gigs, CDs, downloads, or a combination of all the above. You're 21 -- there are a lot of years ahead of you. Don't waste your 20s. Get out there and make something happen. Become part of your local music scene. Create one if one doesn't exist. Now more than ever is the time when a musician has the tools to create his own success. (You already have your own studio -- see?) But it's not easy. Then again, nothing worthwhile ever is. Sorry for the long (and long in the tooth) post. Good luck and kick some ass.

 

 

 

I don't know if I would call it a "studio" since it is quite low-end in my opinion. But it is a start.

 

I kind of understand what you are saying though. Since I live in New York there is always a music scene around and places to gig, but I haven't quite taken that leap yet. I feel this is a more who you know, rather than what you know business.

 

The idea of me making a career in music is nice....just not practical. Like I said, I would really like to put together a CD, and then just give them out online or at gigs. It would be nice to maybe break even, but I'm not really in it for the money.

[Roy Brooks]

Making a living with music doesn't always have anything at all to do with being a star or being famous. Mostly it is about finding ways to make a halfway decent living out of it.

[Synonym Music]

 

I kind of understand what you are saying though. Since I live in New York there is always a music scene around and places to gig, but I haven't quite taken that leap yet. I feel this is a more who you know , rather than what you know business.

 

That's why there are so many hacks in music. Still, a network should come before anything you know. It's incredibly important, but you really need both. Sounding difficult enough yet?

[richardmac]

 

Making a living with music doesn't always have anything at all to do with being a star or being famous. Mostly it is about finding ways to make a halfway decent living out of it.

 

 

+1

 

This is the most basic common point that lots of people don't get. If you want a CAREER in music, meaning something that can pay bills and last a long time, then you have to come up with ways of making money. There are many ways, including giving lessons, selling instruments, fixing instruments, playing in cover bands, playing in wedding bands, selling instruments, doing audio production for people, writing songs for TV and/or advertising, writing and selling songs, performing as a sideman for hire for recording and live performances, teaching people how to use their audio recording program for their computer, and on and on. Some musicians find one of these things and that's their career, such as a band director at a school. If you're good at these things and not afraid to rattle doorknobs, you can make a living. If you're REALLY good at one of these things, you may be able to focus in on that.

 

This is reality for the vast majority of musicians. People really ought to go into a career in music with their eyes totally open. If you're looking at that list and saying "Man, I would not want to do any of those things for a living," then this is the wrong business. There are guys with hit records who end up looking at that list and picking stuff to do.

 

This is also why a lot of musicians don't do music as their career. They might happen to be good at web design or computer programming and enjoy that also. So for a career, they can either do the laundry list above, or make three times as much money doing programming. And have retirement benefits and insurance and all the other stuff.

 

I think the idea of finding one of those music related things that you're really good at and going that route would be rewarding, if you really enjoy it. I never liked any of those things, except performing cover tunes - I like doing that now. Didn't like it when I was young.

 

You probably already know everything I just said. I just like hearing myself type, sometimes.

[Nick*]

 

This is also why a lot of musicians don't do music as their career. They might happen to be good at web design or computer programming and enjoy that also. So for a career, they can either do the laundry list above, or make three times as much money doing programming. And have retirement benefits and insurance and all the other stuff.

 

 

 

Bingo! It's not that I don't want to do any of those things. It is simply that I want the benefits and the paper. It's too much of a risk to me. Maybe I'm just greedy though.

[Synonym Music]

 

Bingo! It's not that I don't want to do any of those things. It is simply that I want the benefits and the paper. It's too much of a risk to me. Maybe I'm just greedy though.

 

All I wanted was a living. It's something I have never had. Booku money is great, but... That's the part of music which isn't realistic. It would be like birthday candles on a cake - not even icing.

[drewl]

Don't want to squash your dreams but the odds are better at winning the lottery and it doesn't even seem there's a music industry left to be a part of anymore.

I was fortunate to stay in school and have a career that yields a nice standard of life that aids in my playing music (engineering/electronics).

I know too many people that dropped out of high school and have worked dead end jobs the last twenty or so years playing the same gigs i play for fun.

[Nick*]

 

Don't want to squash your dreams but the odds are better at winning the lottery and it doesn't even seem there's a music industry left to be a part of anymore. I was fortunate to stay in school and have a career that yields a nice standard of life that aids in my playing music (engineering/electronics). I know too many people that dropped out of high school and have worked dead end jobs the last twenty or so years playing the same gigs i play for fun.

 

 

 

This is pretty much exactly it. I actually have little desire to even be apart of the "music industry." I feel that there is a big indie scene going on right now that I wouldn't mind being apart of though. I don't think that I even want to be a mainstream musician. I think I would rather be more underground.

 

The problem comes in when everyone around me wants to make tons of money in music. Then I feel obligated to construct my music and myself around this.