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  • The other guitarist of my band just

    quit on me out of the blue. We practiced and got a lot done (normally don't). But I noticed he was pretty bummed out didn't know why till he called and gave me the news he wanted to quit later in the after-noon. We were a three guitar lineup with a bass and drums and me and the other guitarist sang. The worst part of it is he was a great guitarist and he had the best place to practice and a PA. Don't know what we are gonna do now. Is there any problem running a mike into an amp for vocals (sence we don't have access to a PA now)?
    Gear: Fender Stage 1600 160watt amp
    Vox Cambridge 15 watt amp
    Epiphone G-400 vintage
    Fender Squire Stratocaster
    Squire Acoustic

  • #2
    Originally posted by TNT
    Is there any problem running a mike into an amp for vocals (sence we don't have access to a PA now)?


    Yes, and that problem would be it's going to sound like ass.

    Can you other band mates divvy up the cash for a small PA? They're really not that expensive for something that will at least sound better than you singing through a guitar amp.

    - Jeff
    Music, thoughts, stuff, and... I guess that's all

    Comment


    • #3
      id beat his ass!!! jkjkjk buy a small P.A.

      Comment


      • #4
        Pony up for a Mackie 450 or JBL EON. Plug the mic into directly and use it as a monitor. Put the band behind you for rehersals. Adjust volume *carefully*.

        Quick and dirty. Works great. Less filling.

        Comment


        • #5
          Can you other band mates divvy up the cash for a small PA?


          Well I don't really want to split up the ownership like that because when we get out of High School (2yrs left) we will probably go our seperate ways. I was thinking that I might buy a 100 watt 4 dual channel PA for like ~180 dollars for my self and using it with the band. There are two on Musiciansfriend.com like that, different brands. But how far would that 100 watts and 4 dual channels get me? Thanks for the replies so far.
          Gear: Fender Stage 1600 160watt amp
          Vox Cambridge 15 watt amp
          Epiphone G-400 vintage
          Fender Squire Stratocaster
          Squire Acoustic

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TNT


            Well I don't really want to split up the ownership like that because when we get out of High School (2yrs left) we will probably go our seperate ways. I was thinking that I might buy a 100 watt 4 dual channel PA for like ~180 dollars for my self and using it with the band. There are two on Musiciansfriend.com like that, different brands. But how far would that 100 watts and 4 dual channels get me? Thanks for the replies so far.


            Owning the PA outright all by yourself is DEFINITELY the way to go, but one of those tiny 4-channels won't get it for a rock band. You need a minimum of 400 watts, realistically...in fact, you'll need this set-up to play gigs:

            Minimum of 8 channels on the board...more is preferable. Ideally, one for each voice, one for each amp, at least 3 for drums - 1 for bass drum and two over/in front of the set, left and right, to get cymbals and toms/snare.

            Minimum of 400 watts @ 4 ohms (figure about 2-3 watts per audience member)...again, more is preferable.

            Minimum of a pair of 12" + horn cabs on stands, but 15" + horn'll be better. 2 X 15" + horn is better, yet.

            Minimum of 4 monitors...two out front for vocalists, and one on each side of your drummer. In addition, you'll need to power these with at least a 200 watt power amp.

            Quality mics...the Shure Sm-58 (vocals) and Sm-57 (instruments/amps) are excellent and cost effective.

            Yup, this sounds expensive...and it is, but if you are careful, you can get a lot of this stuff used. And it's a lot cheaper to buy what you need up front than to buy inadequate gear and keep upgrading...

            Hope this helps.
            God(s) bless the rest of the world(s), too

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall


              Owning the PA outright all by yourself is DEFINITELY the way to go, but one of those tiny 4-channels won't get it for a rock band. You need a minimum of 400 watts, realistically...in fact, you'll need this set-up to play gigs:

              Minimum of 8 channels on the board...more is preferable. Ideally, one for each voice, one for each amp, at least 3 for drums - 1 for bass drum and two over/in front of the set, left and right, to get cymbals and toms/snare.

              Minimum of 400 watts @ 4 ohms (figure about 2-3 watts per audience member)...again, more is preferable.

              Minimum of a pair of 12" + horn cabs on stands, but 15" + horn'll be better. 2 X 15" + horn is better, yet.

              Minimum of 4 monitors...two out front for vocalists, and one on each side of your drummer. In addition, you'll need to power these with at least a 200 watt power amp.

              Quality mics...the Shure Sm-58 (vocals) and Sm-57 (instruments/amps) are excellent and cost effective.

              Yup, this sounds expensive...and it is, but if you are careful, you can get a lot of this stuff used. And it's a lot cheaper to buy what you need up front than to buy inadequate gear and keep upgrading...

              Hope this helps.


              Don't know if it helped the original poster, but I need a PA system and it was sure useful to me . Thanks for the informed response.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall


                Owning the PA outright all by yourself is DEFINITELY the way to go, but one of those tiny 4-channels won't get it for a rock band. You need a minimum of 400 watts, realistically...in fact, you'll need this set-up to play gigs:

                Minimum of 8 channels on the board...more is preferable. Ideally, one for each voice, one for each amp, at least 3 for drums - 1 for bass drum and two over/in front of the set, left and right, to get cymbals and toms/snare.

                Minimum of 400 watts @ 4 ohms (figure about 2-3 watts per audience member)...again, more is preferable.

                Minimum of a pair of 12" + horn cabs on stands, but 15" + horn'll be better. 2 X 15" + horn is better, yet.

                Minimum of 4 monitors...two out front for vocalists, and one on each side of your drummer. In addition, you'll need to power these with at least a 200 watt power amp.

                Quality mics...the Shure Sm-58 (vocals) and Sm-57 (instruments/amps) are excellent and cost effective.

                Yup, this sounds expensive...and it is, but if you are careful, you can get a lot of this stuff used. And it's a lot cheaper to buy what you need up front than to buy inadequate gear and keep upgrading...

                Hope this helps.


                I agree with most of what Terry says here, but I think he's talking a bit more power than a bunch of high school kids actually need. My band is a four piece with three of us singing and we use a 600 watt, 6 channel powered mixer, with an additional 200 watt amp to push to 12" monitors. Mains are 15"ers with a horn.

                Drums are going to be loud enough that you usually won't need anything but a little extra kick in the main, but you gotta be careful with that because that's when everyone else gets carried away and wants to turn up. Same goes for bass guitar - neither really need to be in the P.A. for most rooms a high school band is going to play.

                We've been doing this for a long time individually and about a year and a half as a band, and between us (even though we usually use my stuff) we have 3 or 4 complete P.A.'s of varying size. Trust me, most rooms you are going to be playing locally don't require much P.A. before you're too ****************ing loud.

                **************************
                www.taylorharveyband.com

                HCGB Trooper #120

                Tom Waits for no one!

                - daddymack


                '98 Godin Artisan TC for sale. PM me....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TNT
                  The worst part of it is he was a great guitarist and he had the best place to practice and a PA. Don't know what we are gonna do now. Is there any problem running a mike into an amp for vocals (sence we don't have access to a PA now)?


                  maybe he got tired of you guys mooching off him?

                  and I've done the vocals in an amp before. I think I died a little inside after hearing the results. (the guy wouldn't sing unless he had a mic and some sort of amplification.)






                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So what gear would you guys recommend - i'm on a budget but not a massively tight one. I guess I'm looking at mid-range stuff.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by THB


                      I agree with most of what Terry says here, but I think he's talking a bit more power than a bunch of high school kids actually need. My band is a four piece with three of us singing and we use a 600 watt, 6 channel powered mixer, with an additional 200 watt amp to push to 12" monitors. Mains are 15"ers with a horn.

                      Drums are going to be loud enough that you usually won't need anything but a little extra kick in the main, but you gotta be careful with that because that's when everyone else gets carried away and wants to turn up. Same goes for bass guitar - neither really need to be in the P.A. for most rooms a high school band is going to play.

                      We've been doing this for a long time individually and about a year and a half as a band, and between us (even though we usually use my stuff) we have 3 or 4 complete P.A.'s of varying size. Trust me, most rooms you are going to be playing locally don't require much P.A. before you're too ****************ing loud.



                      Well, you can never have too much wattage/channels, and I'm assuming that the bassist's rig probably isn't in the same ball-park as TNT's 160 watt lead amp (400 watts or better)...it's more cost-effective to own as "pro-level" a PA as possible, because then it doesn't matter what the wattage of the individual instrument amps are, right?

                      Plus, I'm going on the assumption that TNT is serious about performing, so buying a small PA now just to have to replace it later is poor planning, if he can scrounge up the $$$ for something decent (probably used) right now.

                      Originally posted by Knottyhed
                      So what gear would you guys recommend - i'm on a budget but not a massively tight one. I guess I'm looking at mid-range stuff.


                      http://carvin.com

                      A lot of people stick their nose up about Carvin gear, but it's helped me earn a decent living for almost 30 years. Sounds great, it's dependable and it's got a lot of bang-for-your-buck.

                      Definitely worth considering!
                      God(s) bless the rest of the world(s), too

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Our band has used an 8 channel Carvin for over 9 years, must be pretty good stuff!
                        *TGFKAS*

                        HC Geezer Brigade Trooper #240

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          While I think the advice about getting good PA gear is perfectly valid, I also agree with the previous poster that what has been described is probably overkill.

                          My HS band barely knew what eq was, and we certainly didn't have any idea about micing drums, let alone having the time/cash/knowledge to properly set up and use all that gear.

                          Plus, if this band is gonna split up in 2 years when everyone goes to college (or whatever), then I don't think it's necessary. TAH: I'm not saying you're wrong - you certainly have more knowledge than me - but I think in practical terms, it's overkill for what TNT really needs at this point.

                          If you look at used gear and start with a good minimal setup, you'll at the very least have stuff that you can keep and have for future use, ie if you get a good (and maybe bigger than you need) powered mixer now, that's something you can use and have for all the other bands you'll have down the road, and won't have your PA quit the band ever again.

                          I'd only say don't get sidetracked with "needing" a ton of gear just so that you guys can hear yourself sing at rehearsal or play house parties. You can start with the bare minimum, then add stuff as you can.

                          and +1 on Carvin.
                          We need to talk about your flair.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by THB
                            ...Trust me, most rooms you are going to be playing locally don't require much P.A. before you're too ****************ing loud.

                            Ain't that the truth!
                            "Born to Play" MP3 album at iTunes & Amazon.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You don't *need* a PA for a high school band. You can get by with singing through a guitar amp for practice, if you play clubs they will almost certainly have a PA and if you play parties you can always rent a PA for the gig. That's what my band did during high school and look where it got me.

                              Um, well...

                              Anyway...naturally having a PA is better than not having one, but if you can't afford it it shouldn't be the end of the world. I wouldn't break the bank to get a "big" PA, regardless...unless you have somebody to mix the band for all your gigs (not bloody likely), it's not really going to sound any better or worse depending on the PA, because your mix is going to suck.

                              Without a mixer you're probably better off just running vocals through the PA and "mixing" the guitar amps on stage by ear, because if you send the guitar amps through the PA, when each guitarist secretly turns his amp up "just a little" after the second song, then again after the fourth song, and then after every third song thereafter (so he can 'hear better'! ), pretty soon what's coming out of the PA speakers will be a wall of guitars and no vocals and you're right back where you started.

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