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  • #61
    Originally posted by Lee Flier

    When you go to a symphony it's not a party.


    By party, I meant in the biggest sense.

    A chance for people to come together and have something in common (the music) as a focus.

    The headphone listening statement, is a valid point. But I think that is where the personal fulfillment of music is most achieved.

    Not mutually exclusive, but opposite ends of the same stick.

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    • #62
      People who have the creative impulse to put original words and music together to create something brand new do so because THEY HAVE TO. It is the creative fire. They don't care if people like it or not, they do it for themselves.

      Not everybody has this impulse. Life is probably alot easier for people who don't have it! The ycan be happy playing other peoples music which the original writer had to sweat and and do many rewrites to finally create.

      Learning to play an instrument to be good enough to be in a cover band also takes sweat and hard work but it is a different kind altogether from the work which personal creativity entails. Personal creativity and songwriting is a reflection on you as a person. you are representing your views and therefore putting yourself at risk. so it is beyond music -- songwriting is a statement of belief.

      PLaying in a cover band is NOT a reflection of your own beleif s and does NOT reflect you as a person. it only reflects the views of the original creator. its more like hero worship than anything else. playing in a cover band is not an act of creativity. not that theres anythign wrong with that.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Teddy
        People who have the creative impulse to put original words and music together to create something brand new do so because THEY HAVE TO. It is the creative fire. They don't care if people like it or not, they do it for themselves.

        Not everybody has this impulse. Life is probably alot easier for people who don't have it!


        Well said!
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        • #64
          I wouldn't say there's NO creativity in playing covers. You can always write medlies, change up the songs in different ways. Of course there's alot less creativity, but there is some.
          CT/MA Music - A Site For Connecticut & Western Mass Bands/Musicians/Fans

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Lee Flier


            Well that's just it... I don't entirely agree. It has become that way to a large degree but that doesn't mean it's inherently that way. When you go to a symphony it's not a party. Some types of music are better for partying and some require more active listening to appreciate. But active listening doesn't happen as much anymore. ...


            I will slightly disagree with your symphony observations...I worked as the FOH engineer for a state symphony for three years during their Summer concert series. There were some people at the concerts that REALLY knew the music and were there for the music, however there were a lot of folks at the shows who didn't know the difference between Bach and John Williams. (The best response that they recieved to any program was when they played "Harry Potter" soundtrack pieces and a "Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jaws") Can you say symphony cover band!

            IMO there were more people at the shows for "The Party"...it was just Wine & Cheese vs. Bud & Wings! They also were there to network...gossip...and show how superior they were to the common folk who didn't appreciate the "finer things"

            BTW: After my last season working with them they were over $750,000 in the red and the debts were climbing faster than the water di on the Titanic! Sad...I actually enjoyed mixing the shows...but not enough to do it for charity wages.
            Another Grumpy Old Soundguy/Not the one from Pro Sound Web. But still old and grumpy!

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            • #66
              Originally posted by fastplant


              This is what I'm talking about. Every original band in my area wants to be a heavier version of Mudvayne. There's no possibly way to sing along to their music, they have no melody, no hook, nothing memorable about any of it.

              If there was a wide variety of different kinds of original bands, I think there would be a bigger market for it. Most people that are into the "cookie monster" band, don't go to night clubs. So these bands will never get a good show.


              As someone in one of these "cookie monster" bands, I gotta say, you're wrong. There may not be a whole lot of melody in what we're doing, but by god, are there ever hooks...and it's quite possible for people to sing along with what we do,

              As for good shows, give me 25 kids in a basement going off to the music and knowing every word to my band's original stuff, over a couple hundred drunks in a bar who are way too excited to hear the same AC/DC song for the 6,000th time.
              Me

              Vocalist needing band. Hardcore/metal. PA/MD area. No Atreyu, no Godsmack, no girl pants or eyeliner.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by xonetruedesirex


                As someone in one of these "cookie monster" bands, I gotta say, you're wrong. There may not be a whole lot of melody in what we're doing, but by god, are there ever hooks...and it's quite possible for people to sing along with what we do,

                As for good shows, give me 25 kids in a basement going off to the music and knowing every word to my band's original stuff, over a couple hundred drunks in a bar who are way too excited to hear the same AC/DC song for the 6,000th time.


                I'm not doubting you, but I've yet to hear a "cookie monster" band have a hook. All I ever hear is "ROOOOARRRR, rarararararah, Rababahaha, ROOOOOOOAAR!!" I have no idea how that's a hook, and I consider myself pretty open-minded about music. If I can't understand a single word, I'll pass on it. I know it's popular and all, I just don't dig it.

                And it's cool if you're into it and having a good time. What I don't like is the fact that out of 100 bands in CT, 99 are gonna be this type of band, and they all complain that they have no fans/audience.
                CT/MA Music - A Site For Connecticut & Western Mass Bands/Musicians/Fans

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by fastplant


                  I'm not doubting you, but I've yet to hear a "cookie monster" band have a hook. All I ever hear is "ROOOOARRRR, rarararararah, Rababahaha, ROOOOOOOAAR!!" I have no idea how that's a hook, and I consider myself pretty open-minded about music. If I can't understand a single word, I'll pass on it. I know it's popular and all, I just don't dig it.

                  And it's cool if you're into it and having a good time. What I don't like is the fact that out of 100 bands in CT, 99 are gonna be this type of band, and they all complain that they have no fans/audience.


                  a cookie-monster (sometimes) band with big hooks: Still Remains
                  Me

                  Vocalist needing band. Hardcore/metal. PA/MD area. No Atreyu, no Godsmack, no girl pants or eyeliner.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by xonetruedesirex


                    a cookie-monster (sometimes) band with big hooks: Still Remains


                    Just listened, they're definitely NOT a cookie monster band.
                    CT/MA Music - A Site For Connecticut & Western Mass Bands/Musicians/Fans

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by fastplant


                      Just listened, they're definitely NOT a cookie monster band.


                      they have some very cookie monster moments...try this for straight cookie-monster that's easy to catch on to: Seventh Star
                      Me

                      Vocalist needing band. Hardcore/metal. PA/MD area. No Atreyu, no Godsmack, no girl pants or eyeliner.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by xonetruedesirex


                        they have some very cookie monster moments...try this for straight cookie-monster that's easy to catch on to: Seventh Star


                        When I say cookie monster band, I don't mean a band that screams for parts of the song. I mean a band that does NOTHING but grunt and groan for the entirety of their catologue.
                        CT/MA Music - A Site For Connecticut & Western Mass Bands/Musicians/Fans

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                        • #72
                          You know those underskilled hacks who look like the guys from "Office Space" and spend their weekends murdering classic rock covers for people who are too drunk to know the difference?

                          Yeah, thats me.
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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Teddy
                            PLaying in a cover band is NOT a reflection of your own beleif s and does NOT reflect you as a person. it only reflects the views of the original creator. its more like hero worship than anything else. playing in a cover band is not an act of creativity. not that theres anythign wrong with that.


                            I couldn't disagree more. For you to tell me that I can't express myself through somebody else's music indicates to me that you just haven't learned how to express yourself that way.

                            Do you feel that when Stevie played Jimi he ceased to be a creative artist?
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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by fastplant


                              I agree, it matters little how good you are. People that have a good time at your show are going to tell people you are good. Most people can't tell if you actually have talent or not. You can be awful, but put on a good show and if people like you, then that's all that matters. Problem is that most bad bands don't know how to entertain either. But I've played with some awful bands that people thought were awesome because we put on a good show.


                              I somewhat disagree with this statement. I believe that audiences have a more acute sense of musicianship than most of us musicians are aware of. A band that doesn't swing can dance around and get stupid as much as they like. They still don't swing. People know the difference.
                              I WANNA ROSK!
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                              "Or, as they say on CNN: 'Briefly now, what is the meaning of life?'"--Gore Vidal

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Lee Flier


                                Well that's just it... I don't entirely agree. It has become that way to a large degree but that doesn't mean it's inherently that way. When you go to a symphony it's not a party. Some types of music are better for partying and some require more active listening to appreciate. But active listening doesn't happen as much anymore. How many people even still turn off all the lights, put on headphones and listen to an album or two all the way through? Everybody I knew used to do that, now most people listen to the radio or iPod while cleaning house, watching TV, talking on the phone, whatever. Like I said there are a few venues left that cater to active listeners but not many. That's just the reality, it's not really the musicians' fault. Unless they suck.


                                I have a teacher who is convinced that fewer active listening environments exist because active listeners don't drink as much as buttshakers. I think there might be a fair amount of merit to this.
                                I WANNA ROSK!
                                Support research for Crohn's disease: www.ccfa.org

                                "Or, as they say on CNN: 'Briefly now, what is the meaning of life?'"--Gore Vidal

                                CHEROKEE PRIDE

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