Members AidyCM Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 I'm sick of saying this to my drummer. He's pretty much the only drummer I can find (trust me, I've tried) and we're a post-rock/shoegaze band. I know he loves his metal but I'm so sick of hearing dddddddddddddddddddd in every song. I've tried asking him politely, but no dice. How do I put a stop to his arhythmic double-kick bukkake in every song? What is it with young drummers and double kicks? I know he's 17, but geez! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 tell him to use it where iyou both think it fits, just to add a little dynamic. I don't know. Come to an agreement somewhere in the middle of what you both want. I love my metal and I do add double kick stuff here and there with my band. Not much as I used to (cuz it doesn't work) but some. We play a lot of 80s and modern pop. One that comes to mind is Poker Face. At the end of the last chorus of our rocked up version of pokerface (the puh-puh-puh- poker face puh-puh poker face) I do some double bass 16th note stuff. but it's more for dynamics than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 30, 2010 Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2010 I was producing a roots rock band. The drummer was great. At rehearsals though, he'd dive into these double pedal detours. Totally wrong for the project at hand. I pulled him aside and talked it out. "You got to play the gig. Play what's appropriate to the style or be branded a hack. In this case, cut and dried. NO DOUBLE PEDAL WORK!" Please. He nailed the sessions and was up to the challenge of focusing on the genre and style and not diluting or polluting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 there is a big difference between someone who knows how to use double kick and someone who just thinks its for playing the basic speed metal/thrash metal beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 If you're going to take it away from him, best to give him SOME place to do it just to find a bit of 'compromise'. At the end of a song with a big concert ending or something. Nothing ruins a good song or good band quicker than overplaying, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnMCA72 Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 Like anything else, using it all the time completely ruins the effect when you do use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 How do I put a stop to his arhythmic double-kick bukkake in every song? Put the band on hold for 2-3 years and then resume with him once he's got a bit more musical maturity. He's 17; if it isn't obvious to him already that it doesn't fit, you're most likely in a no-win situation as far as getting him to accept that it has no place in the music you're playing NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khem1cal Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 Gotta yell at him or something, even the heaviest, most satanic, blastbeats a million miles an hour, know when to utilize a good steady single bass groove, in fact the single bass is usually what gives the guitar rhythm the most balls. Teach him to play real metal or get him to listen to other genres, jazz & funk for example use lots of syncopation, odd time signatures, etc very cool for metal! I knew a drummer just like him, he REFUSED to play single bass, said it was lame, gay, etc, etc. Fired him as he was a hopeless cause, and I've seen him recently still playing the same tired ass beats & bandless because no one wants a one dimensional player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 Drummers have double bass pedals. Guitarists have wah pedals. It's really the same thing. As my girlfriend would call it, "boys with their toys." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AidyCM Posted August 30, 2010 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 I've told him (and showed him) that I can do the whole Joe Satriani/Paul Gilbert thing but I don't because it doesn't fit. I also reminded him of when we played with another local band and he said how the guitarist was overplaying and it sucked. He still doesn't get the message but I don't want to have to let him go because he's the only drummer I've been able to find who'll even give this kind of music a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 I've told him (and showed him) that I can do the whole Joe Satriani/Paul Gilbert thing but I don't because it doesn't fit. I also reminded him of when we played with another local band and he said how the guitarist was overplaying and it sucked.He still doesn't get the message but I don't want to have to let him go because he's the only drummer I've been able to find who'll even give this kind of music a go. Based on what you're saying, it's not that he 'doesn't get the message'; clearly it's that he doesn't care/want to change his playing style.Again based on what you've posted, he's clearly not the right drummer for what you want to do. You have two logical options:1) Change the kind of music you want to play to some sort of middle-ground between what you/he want.2) Boot him. And one not-so logical:Continue to beat your head against a wall trying to make him into something that he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 If you're going to take it away from him, best to give him SOME place to do it just to find a bit of 'compromise'. At the end of a song with a big concert ending or something. Nothing ruins a good song or good band quicker than overplaying, IMO. He probably won't listen to you. He thinks you won't fire him cause you can't replace him. He's looking to shine as a drummer not as part of a good band. Give him 20 minute solos and insist on double pedal throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted August 30, 2010 Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2010 This is funny. I had a dream the other night (true) that I was in The Police. And as much as I love Stewart Copeland, I was playing bass and singing, I guess I was Sting Knight, and Copeland was just going off. I was trying to put the song over and... dude. Stew... Coffee? Imagine him with double pedal!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 Cut off his left leg at the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 This is funny. I had a dream the other night (true) that I was in The Police. And as much as I love Stewart Copeland, I was playing bass and singing, I guess I was Sting Knight, and Copeland was just going off. I was trying to put the song over and... dude. Stew... Coffee? Wait...in your dream, Stew was trying to outshine/overplay to be seen/heard over Sting/you? And that's different from the real-life Police HOW, exactly? :poke: Wait...maybe that means you REALLY ARE Sting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 What's worse than a drummer who can play double kick and uses it way too much? Oooh! I know that one! A drummer who CAN NOT play double kick yet still insists on doing it. I played with a drummer (or two) who sounded like someone pushed a fat girl down the stairs any time they attempted to bring the second pedal into play. Nothing even vaguely rhythymic about it. Fortuantely we were given plenty of other reasons to let him go without bringing his lack of playing skills into it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 Like anything else, using it all the time completely ruins the effect when you do use it. Yep. This is how I'd put it to him. Our drummer owns a double kick pedal. He doesn't really use it, in our band, but when he does, it's never annoying - it's always because it actually adds something to the song that is cool. He knows how to make it fit our style and he doesn't use it if it doesn't fit. Of course, he's a lot older than your drummer. Quite possibly when he was 17 he didn't have a clue about these things. But he's learned, and he's a drum teacher now so he tries to teach these snot nosed kids a thing or two before they make those kinds of lame mistakes. I think it's a pretty common mistake for someone your drummer's age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 I was SOOOOO happy when Guns and Roses came out and made it cool again to only have a single bass drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr3lions Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 Like anything else, using it all the time completely ruins the effect when you do use it. Exactly. As my friend used to say "If you use it all the time it's not an effect. It's a crutch" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 I was SOOOOO happy when Guns and Roses came out and made it cool again to only have a single bass drum. ??? 1) Aside from Moon and Ginger Baker and maybe a small handfull of others, nobody ever made it cool to have 2 (or more) kicks in the first place IMO... 2) Every drummer in GnR has used double-pedals, quite obviously/apparently. They aren't chugging 16ths through songs, but they're definitely there. You really don't think Steven Adler played those parts at the end of Paradise City with one foot, do you? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 ??? 1) Aside from Moon and Ginger Baker and maybe a small handfull of others, nobody ever made it cool to have 2 (or more) kicks in the first place IMO... 2) Every drummer in GnR has used double-pedals, quite obviously/apparently. They aren't chugging 16ths through songs, but they're definitely there. You really don't think Steven Adler played those parts at the end of Paradise City with one foot, do you? :poke: IDK, I just remember every one was SO into Anthrax and Metallica and Megadeth, etc. etc. in 88, 89 and it seemed like every drummer wanted speed up everything so they could machine gun the bass drum through the entire song. Sweet Child was so refreshing because it was so much more of a laid back groove. Back to what I really like. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted August 31, 2010 Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 Nicko McBrain, Iron Maiden's drummer has played almost everything with a single kick drum, and he has done some amazing things! He did play a double kick on one tune off of Dance of Death but said he wouldn't be using it again or at least all the time. I think it was an experimental thingie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted August 31, 2010 Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 there is a big difference between someone who knows how to use double kick and someone who just thinks its for playing the basic speed metal/thrash metal beat. This is very true, you really dont have to do 16th machine gun kicks thru an entire song all the time, tasteful double kick stuff can be great,look at Ginger Baker. Our drummer plays double kicks and they can be a handy another dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted August 31, 2010 Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 IDK, I just remember every one was SO into Anthrax and Metallica and Megadeth, etc. etc. in 88, 89 and it seemed like every drummer wanted speed up everything so they could machine gun the bass drum through the entire song. Sweet Child was so refreshing because it was so much more of a laid back groove. Back to what I really like. YMMV I get what you're saying...I just wasn't at all into those particular bands then, and frankly, they and the other frequent double kick-using bands of that general era (Poison and their glam ilk) were the polar opposite of what I was into... So either all those bands weren't cool back then, or I wasn't. Good chance of being right either way, I guess... Or extra bonus points for being right on both accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted August 31, 2010 Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 I'm sick of saying this to my drummer. He's pretty much the only drummer I can find (trust me, I've tried) and we're a post-rock/shoegaze band. I know he loves his metal but I'm so sick of hearing dddddddddddddddddddd in every song. I've tried asking him politely, but no dice. How do I put a stop to his arhythmic double-kick bukkake in every song? What is it with young drummers and double kicks? I know he's 17, but geez! Why on Earth would you "ask" a 17-year-old male "nicely"??? Grab him by the shirt, shove him against a wall, and growl "Stop using the {censored}ing double-kick, you {censored}ing useless wanker." Otherwise he'll just filter you out completely as white noise. Because that's what 17-year-olds do. (Yes, studies have been done on the topic.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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