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The "dont want to play what everyone else is playing" Circular logic


Kramerguy

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So...

you ever have the 'new songs' discussion, where everyone tosses out what songs they want to do?

 

I have to admit, I used to have the exact same disposition I'm going to complain about now..

 

I didn't want to play SWA, or Jesse's Girl.. I begrudgely played them at gigs, and soon realized, that for instance SWA is probably one of the best reactions we get all night no matter where we play. I stuck to pushing the "different" songs, something to set us apart from all the other bands.. Some Sponge here, some Tool there.. Even duran duran and the go-go's... We've prided ourselves on being different.. not like every other band.

 

So, I've been paying more and more attention to ourselves and other local bands in our respective class.. and guess what?

 

ALL bands take that exact same approach. I cant find a single band around here that does not add obscure songs in an effort to be different, so in the end, they are all the SAME.. and it's funny how we all do the same obscure songs, too!

 

So I was thinking, why not go against the current, drop the smug purist attitude, totally sell out (since that's against the status quo, right?) and just play what works all night? Not saying to guess at what new hot song might catch or not, but sticking with only the best of the best, the cheesiest of the cheese.. Stuff like pride & joy, Billie Jean, BEG, etc... and yes, even mustang sally.. .. and why does everyone hate MS? Not cause it does poorly, but because it does well damn near every time any band plays it.

 

I'm kind of tired of no dance floor and crickets after the same "obscure" songs every time. I'd rather play SWA and BEG all night and have people dance than play a perfect rendition of an obscure one-hit-wonder and get crickets and atta-boys only from the family & friends section..

 

I'm sure I could come up with 40 songs that are winners.. I'm sure we all could.

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I've found that the toughest thing to do is actually get the other band members on board. We have 4 of 5 band members on board with playing 100% songs that everybody likes. The 5th has a bad attitude, and will constantly try to put down songs that do really well. For isntance, we'll play Chattahoochie, and he'll always talk about how poorly we play it, or say "The crowds not into it", even though everyone in the audience is singing along.

 

So yeah, I'm in the same boat, but all band members have to he on baord to make it work.

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All I can say is we gave up the goat along time ago. In fact this band was put together purely NOT to play anything obscure. Sure over the years we've had debates on adding in a personal favorite here or there. But the rule with those songs are the same as any other... we decide what to play, but the audience decides what will stay. Three performances and no reaction and the song is tossed... as simple as that.

 

I liken our setlist as serving hamburgers.... but they are the best damn hamburgers you've tasted in a long time. If you're looking to attract a following don't try to define your band by delivering an obscure setlist. That's reaching the 10% and turning off the remaining 90%. When it comes to standing apart from other bands playing accessible music, don't over think it... just outplay them. Make your performance memorable and people will return.

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One thing the 4 of us agree on is not to play some of the "standards" when there are other suitable choices to fill the same demographic. We dont do SWA, we play Gimme 3 Steps, as an example. We may be falling into the line of thinking you are talking about OP as far as trying to be a tad different than other bands. Our "obscure" songs are all dancable which we all agree should be the case. If you play an obscure song that wont get people dancing, whats the point of playing it when we are there to entertain?

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I've found that the toughest thing to do is actually get the other band members on board. We have 4 of 5 band members on board with playing 100% songs that everybody likes. The 5th has a bad attitude, and will constantly try to put down songs that do really well. For isntance, we'll play Chattahoochie, and he'll always talk about how poorly we play it, or say "The crowds not into it", even though everyone in the audience is singing along.


So yeah, I'm in the same boat, but all band members have to he on baord to make it work.

 

 

This

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I'm kind of tired of no dance floor and crickets after the same "obscure" songs every time.

 

 

I'm firmly in the camp that crickets=death, and several working bands on here seem to be the same way.

 

Rule 1: Either make it work for the crowd, or drop it. I'm really not sure how bands get caught up in all sorts of other reasons ahead of Rule 1. Actually, I DO know why, but they shouldn't.

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I just don't have time for that attitude anymore. If we're going to haul production around and go through what we go through to make $100 per guy...we're going to make sure we do material that the crowd will react to, stick around, and dance. It's no fun playing to an empty dance floor and crickets chirping.

 

We HAVE banished 'Sweet Home Alabama' (I assume that's what SWA means?), 'Brown-Eyed Girl', and 'Mustang Sally' to the "only when requested by a hot-looking woman" pile. Yes, they go over. But you can play those songs every weekend to appreciative audiences and never do anything to set yourself apart from everybody else on the circuit.

 

We're lucky to have everybody on board with song selection. The drummer and I suggest most of the material. The keys and bass had played in mostly blues bands in the past, and they were a little skeptical when we put the list together. Once they saw the reaction the songs got, they understood why we were playing them. The bass player is an entertainment lawyer, and he likes to say, "It's the music business. And without the business, there wouldn't be much music."

 

I've started having fun with the "don't play what everybody else is" thing. In the middle of the second set, I'll tell the crowd, "OK, we're going to change it up a little here...most of the night, we play the songs you want to hear and dance to. But right now, if you'll permit us, we're going to do something for ourselves...an obscure number that you've probably never heard, but we really like..."

 

By this time, people are drifting off to the bathroom or for a smoke...then the keys player goes into 'Don't Stop Believing", and every woman in the place does a 180 to the dance floor. :)

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So...

you ever have the 'new songs' discussion, where everyone tosses out what songs they want to do?


I have to admit, I used to have the exact same disposition I'm going to complain about now..


I didn't want to play SWA, or Jesse's Girl.. I begrudgely played them at gigs, and soon realized, that for instance SWA is probably one of the best reactions we get all night no matter where we play. I stuck to pushing the "different" songs, something to set us apart from all the other bands.. Some Sponge here, some Tool there.. Even duran duran and the go-go's... We've prided ourselves on being different.. not like every other band.


So, I've been paying more and more attention to ourselves and other local bands in our respective class.. and guess what?


ALL bands take that exact same approach. I cant find a single band around here that does not add obscure songs in an effort to be different, so in the end, they are all the SAME.. and it's funny how we all do the same obscure songs, too!


So I was thinking, why not go against the current, drop the smug purist attitude, totally sell out (since that's against the status quo, right?) and just play what works all night? Not saying to guess at what new hot song might catch or not, but sticking with only the best of the best, the cheesiest of the cheese.. Stuff like pride & joy, Billie Jean, BEG, etc... and yes, even mustang sally.. .. and why does everyone hate MS? Not cause it does poorly, but because it does well damn near every time any band plays it.


I'm kind of tired of no dance floor and crickets after the same "obscure" songs every time. I'd rather play SWA and BEG all night and have people dance than play a perfect rendition of an obscure one-hit-wonder and get crickets and atta-boys only from the family & friends section..


I'm sure I could come up with 40 songs that are winners.. I'm sure we all could.

 

I think you're right. I could never play in a band that played nothing but the tried-and-true hits, but if you want a packed dance floor and lots of bookings, that's the way to go about it, IMO. I always thought that if you're playing covers, you're basically whoring yourself out (and I include me there, too ) for lack of a better term, and it always struck me that cover bands would argue that one was more a sellout than another. One of the guys in the last cover band I played with mentioned that, and I told him we were like prostitutes mocking another hooker because her johns were ugly.

 

And please, fellow musicians, I'm not saying cover bands are whores- It's just an analogy. I do feel a bit whorish if I'm playing songs I hate for money, no matter how much the customer enjoys it. But I realize that's me and I'll not accuse everyone of the same thing, as we all view it differently and enjoy different aspects of it. Playing covers is legit; I'm only speaking for myself.:wave:

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I think it alls comes down to the band's mission statement.

 

 

 

-We play anything the crowd loves.

 

 

-We play danceable rock that no one else does.

 

 

-We play old r & b through a punk filter and make it danceable. no current charting songs allowed.

 

 

Choose who you want to be. It's a balance of musical satisfation and the satifaction derived frojm pleasing a crowd. Without a clear mission statement, you end up with this discussion every time. But narrow your intent and it all makes sense. "What do you mean the songs not working? Our mission statement is Disco from the era that packs the floor today? And we're talking I Will Survive, we sound great doing it, and the floor's packed. So what's the issue?"

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So I was thinking, why not go against the current, drop the smug purist attitude, totally sell out (since that's against the status quo, right?) and just play what works all night? Not saying to guess at what new hot song might catch or not, but sticking with only the best of the best, the cheesiest of the cheese.. Stuff like pride & joy, Billie Jean, BEG, etc... and yes, even mustang sally.. .. and why does everyone hate MS? Not cause it does poorly, but because it does well damn near every time any band plays it.


 

Drop the smug purist attitude? Boards like this would dry up in no time. :lol:

 

It's like walking into a McDonalds and not being able to get a Big Mac because that particular store wants to stand out from all the others that have what people expect.

 

( See what I did there? Now you can all agree to drop the attitude about music and go off about fast food instead.)

 

You're welcome.

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I...We have 4 of 5 band members on board with playing 100% songs that everybody likes. The 5th has a bad attitude, and will constantly try to put down songs that do really well. ...

 

 

 

As much as we would like to think that a band can be a democracy, it really can't because ONE member can sabotage a song he doesn't want to play in order to get it dropped.

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I never meant to imply that we are currently having any strife- if anything, we are all moving towards that position I took in the OP. We all still to some point cling to the songs we *want* to play, so there's progress to be made, of course.

 

And I agree with BS - we are already whoring ourselves out anyways, can't expect to get top pay if we won't do what pleases the customer, right?

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I know what you mean about other bands daring to be different, yet they aren't really that different after all.

 

I try to limit the obscure songs to maybe once per set, possibly twice. I'd rather keep the dance floor full and people wanting to hire us back instead of a bunch of people that sit in their seats or worse, leave for the door. Playing stuff people don't know (or want to know) is a sure way of getting a negative reaction. Whenever we have songs I have a feeling won't go over, I always sandwich them between two killer songs. That way, I grease the wheel before the obscure song, so they may be in a better mood to accept it. If it bombs, having another great crowd-pleaser will get them interested again right away.

 

For some reason, "Oh, Pretty Woman" no longer works as a song that people like to dance to for us. Must be played out in the area or something. We played it this past Saturday and I think that will be its final performance for our band, unless someone actually requests it in the future. I agree with Grant's method: if it dies three times in a row, chuck it and learn something else.

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We HAVE banished 'Sweet Home Alabama' (I assume that's what SWA means?), 'Brown-Eyed Girl', and 'Mustang Sally' to the "only when requested by a hot-looking woman" pile. Yes, they go over. But you can play those songs every weekend to appreciative audiences and never do anything to set yourself apart from everybody else on the circuit.

 

We have banished BEG and MS as well, but I am still open to playing SHA. For now. :)

 

I've started having fun with the "don't play what everybody else is" thing. In the middle of the second set, I'll tell the crowd, "OK, we're going to change it up a little here...most of the night, we play the songs you want to hear and dance to. But right now, if you'll permit us, we're going to do something for ourselves...an obscure number that you've probably never heard, but we really like..."


By this time, people are drifting off to the bathroom or for a smoke...then the keys player goes into 'Don't Stop Believing", and every woman in the place does a 180 to the dance floor.
:)

 

Hilarious! I'm going to steal this and do the same at our next gig, just to see what the reaction will be!

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So...

you ever have the 'new songs' discussion, where everyone tosses out what songs they want to do?


I have to admit, I used to have the exact same disposition I'm going to complain about now..


I didn't want to play SWA, or Jesse's Girl.. I begrudgely played them at gigs, and soon realized, that for instance SWA is probably one of the best reactions we get all night no matter where we play. I stuck to pushing the "different" songs, something to set us apart from all the other bands.. Some Sponge here, some Tool there.. Even duran duran and the go-go's... We've prided ourselves on being different.. not like every other band.


So, I've been paying more and more attention to ourselves and other local bands in our respective class.. and guess what?


ALL bands take that exact same approach. I cant find a single band around here that does not add obscure songs in an effort to be different, so in the end, they are all the SAME.. and it's funny how we all do the same obscure songs, too!


So I was thinking, why not go against the current, drop the smug purist attitude, totally sell out (since that's against the status quo, right?) and just play what works all night? Not saying to guess at what new hot song might catch or not, but sticking with only the best of the best, the cheesiest of the cheese.. Stuff like pride & joy, Billie Jean, BEG, etc... and yes, even mustang sally.. .. and why does everyone hate MS? Not cause it does poorly, but because it does well damn near every time any band plays it.


I'm kind of tired of no dance floor and crickets after the same "obscure" songs every time. I'd rather play SWA and BEG all night and have people dance than play a perfect rendition of an obscure one-hit-wonder and get crickets and atta-boys only from the family & friends section..


I'm sure I could come up with 40 songs that are winners.. I'm sure we all could.

 

 

The only thing I will say is that I find that by keeping some "off-the-beaten-path" tunes in your set, it makes the "standards" pop that much more. HOWEVER, off-the-beaten-path and obscure are two very different things. Obscure means unknown to the average listener. Instead, the trick is finding songs that are still well known, but aren't played by other cover bands. I go see other bands 3-4 times a month, and I've yet to hear another band cover the Tina Turner version of "Proud Mary" or the Isley Bros "Shout". We do a medley of the two and it kills every time. We do Iko Iko every show in the middle of Blister In The Sun. Again one of our best reactions. Sure we still give them plenty of standards from I Want You To Want Me to Jesse's Girl to Your Love to Sweet Child O Mine - even SHA and BEG (one verse/chorus of each in a medley) and they all go over really well. But I think by throwing in some "curveballs" really helps our band stand out from all the "me too" cover bands in the area. YMMV

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I think I used the word "obscure" a little too loosely-

 

I don't know what to call them.. songs that were hits.. but people just don't dance to.. like Foo Fighters songs (from the other thread), or even go-go's, billy idol, duran duran, collective soul, etc.. many songs that many bands do (thinking they are being different LOL), but that crowds just don't seem to react to. One of the most obvious songs to us is Plowed by sponge.. it's a GREAT song and fun to play, but crowds ... response has never been more than "... meh". Ppl tell us they like it, but with dance floors, actions speak louder than words. I'd rather play brick house, a song I personally loathe, and see people dance.

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I've started having fun with the "don't play what everybody else is" thing. In the middle of the second set, I'll tell the crowd, "OK, we're going to change it up a little here...most of the night, we play the songs you want to hear and dance to. But right now, if you'll permit us, we're going to do something for ourselves...an obscure number that you've probably never heard, but we really like..."


By this time, people are drifting off to the bathroom or for a smoke...then the keys player goes into 'Don't Stop Believing", and every woman in the place does a 180 to the dance floor.
:)

 

I do this exact thing before we go into a medley that starts with Your Love into Jesse's Girl. Exact same reaction as what you described :D

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The only thing I will say is that I find that by keeping some "off-the-beaten-path" tunes in your set, it makes the "standards" pop that much more. HOWEVER, off-the-beaten-path and obscure are two very different things. Obscure means unknown to the average listener. Instead, the trick is finding songs that are still well known, but aren't played by other cover bands. I go see other bands 3-4 times a month, and I've yet to hear another band cover the Tina Turner version of "Proud Mary" or the Isley Bros "Shout". We do a medley of the two and it kills every time. We do Iko Iko every show in the middle of Blister In The Sun. Again one of our best reactions. Sure we still give them plenty of standards from I Want You To Want Me to Jesse's Girl to Your Love to Sweet Child O Mine - even SHA and BEG (one verse/chorus of each in a medley) and they all go over really well. But I think by throwing in some "curveballs" really helps our band stand out from all the "me too" cover bands in the area. YMMV

 

 

I think one thing that separates us out here is that there are no "me too" bands out here it seems.. everyone is trying so hard to be different that nobody is seemingly cliche. My OP was more of a pondering on taking that role and running with it.

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And please, fellow musicians, I'm not saying cover bands are whores- It's just an analogy. I do feel a bit whorish if I'm playing songs I hate for money, no matter how much the customer enjoys it. But I realize that's me and I'll not accuse everyone of the same thing, as we all view it differently and enjoy different aspects of it. Playing covers is legit; I'm only speaking for myself.
:wave:

 

I always say, "Sure beats flippin' burgers" whenever I think about a packed dance floor of hot chicks while I'm playing another song I'm tired of playing, then smile at the end of the night when I get paid in cash and know that I will get re-hired. I look at it as a part-time 2nd job. If I want to play what *I* want to play and have 100% freedom with that, I also know that I'm probably not going to get paid much (if at all) and there won't be much of a crowd either. So, what's the point, really? I'll save those moments for whenever I want to just have fun and not go any further than that. :)

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Drop the smug purist attitude? Boards like this would dry up in no time.
:lol:

It's like walking into a McDonalds and not being able to get a Big Mac because that particular store wants to stand out from all the others that have what people expect.


( See what I did there? Now you can all agree to drop the attitude about music and go off about fast food instead.)


You're welcome.

 

I just want to find that one McDonalds somewhere in the midwest that still serves the patty melt. Mmmm mmm mmm.

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I don't even care anymore. As long as the band has gigs and there's no expectation on me to somehow do anything that the leader should be doing, it's all good. In other words, I'm willing to step back and let the band form its own identity. I wish more people would do that. People are always trying to change things, to exert some kind of control over what's going on. Somebody has to do it, but the little petty-ass "power struggles" just don't cut it for me.

 

I'll be at open mic tonight playing bass with the house band. No goals direction or anything. And probably some pretty bad music too. I don't care. I'm gonna play music dammit.

 

Happy Turkey Day y'all.

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I've found that the toughest thing to do is actually get the other band members on board. We have 4 of 5 band members on board with playing 100% songs that everybody likes. The 5th has a bad attitude, and will constantly try to put down songs that do really well. For isntance, we'll play Chattahoochie, and he'll always talk about how poorly we play it, or say "The crowds not into it", even though everyone in the audience is singing along.


So yeah, I'm in the same boat, but all band members have to he on baord to make it work.

 

We've moved to an anonymous voting system. Anonymous meaning that submissions are made anonymously and without fear of ridicule or retribution. ;) Each band member submits 3 songs each (x 6 band members= 18 songs) to our manager every Wednesday. On Thursday we vote using Google Forms.... and by Friday the results are given. The 3-4 songs with the top votes gets chosen for the next rehearsal the following Wednesday. We've been doing this a year now and on average add 1-2 per rehearsal that works beyond the rehearsal space and makes it to the stage. Then it's up to the crowd to decide.

 

This way we can float some B-side tunes without the threat of the bandleader or anyone else turning it down. We have a fair share of songs not covered by other bands, and songs that I think help define us to the audinence... but as much as I think clever song choices make the difference it's really the way we approach the songs that makes an impression. It would be way too hard to stand out among the other bands playing 'Jessie's Girl', 'Pour Some Sugar On Me' or 'Summer of 69'

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