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Questions regarding micing amps


VinylMan

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Looking to improve our live sound so I'd like to know what others are doing here to help in that regard. So here goes:

 

1) What brand/model/type of mic are you using to mic your guitar amps?

2) What type of mic holder do you use?

3) Where do you position the mic on the amp?

4) Any other tips that would be helpful?

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Another vote for the Sennheiser e609. It's right in the same price range as SM57, but the sound is noticeably warmer, without that characteristic harsh edge that 57's tend to have.

 

And as others have mentioned, the 609's are literally designed so that you can just lay the mic cable over the top of the cabinet with the mic hanging in front of the speaker. No mic stand needed.

 

In terms of live situations, just about everyone I've seen aims the mic toward the seam where the dust cap is glued to the cone. Seems pretty universal.

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I use a good ol' SM57 in one channel and a line out on another and blend the two. I mounted a mic plate on the front of the amp and screw a clip to it for the mic. Aim the mic at 45 degrees to the cone, not the voice coil, of the speaker.

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And as others have mentioned, the 609's are literally designed so that you can just lay the mic cable over the top of the cabinet with the mic hanging in front of the speaker. No mic stand needed.

 

I use the E609 too, my favorite mic for guitar cabs.

 

But, there are two issues you have to watch for:

 

(1) The cable twisting and the mic rotating so that it's sideways to the cab, and

 

(2) Amp cabs with metal grills. The 609 tends to bounce slightly if the amp is loud and you can hear the contact noise.

 

Bogner.jpg

 

Terry D.

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I use the E609 too, my favorite mic for guitar cabs.


But, there are two issues you have to watch for:


(1) The cable twisting and the mic rotating so that it's sideways to the cab, and


(2) Amp cabs with metal grills. The 609 tends to bounce slightly if the amp is loud and you can hear the contact noise.


Bogner.jpg

Terry D.

 

it also helps if you have the right side facing the amp.:lol: When my guitar players first got them they actually had them facing the wrong direction the first couple of times they used them:facepalm:

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it also helps if you have the right side facing the amp.
:lol:
When my guitar players first got them they actually had them facing the wrong direction the first couple of times they used them:facepalm:

gotta admit, I tapped on mine a couple times the first time I used it just to make sure.

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it also helps if you have the right side facing the amp.
:lol:
When my guitar players first got them they actually had them facing the wrong direction the first couple of times they used them:facepalm:

 

The Royer ribbon mic in that pic actually sounds BETTER if you point the rear at the amp. :freak:

 

Haven't tried that with the 609, though. :)

 

Terry D.

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Looking to improve our live sound so I'd like to know what others are doing here to help in that regard. So here goes:


1) What brand/model/type of mic are you using to mic your guitar amps?

2) What type of mic holder do you use?

3) Where do you position the mic on the amp?

4) Any other tips that would be helpful?

 

 

#3 is really more important than many people realize. A couple inches difference either way can make a dramatic difference in the sound. A good learning source is youtube, which has a lot of videos where you can hear the differences in sound depending on placement. Some bands look at me funny when I am using my flashlight thru the amp grill looking for the right spot to place the mic, lol. I also factor in what type of guitar is being used when placing the mic. (Single coils are brighter, humbuckers not so much). As to #1, I usually use Sennheiser E609s and drape them over the amp as others have mentioned. I also have a lot of SM57s, and those are fine as well.

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And as others have mentioned, the 609's are literally designed so that you can just lay the mic cable over the top of the cabinet with the mic hanging in front of the speaker. No mic stand needed.

That actually works OK with an SM57 - we were doing that 30 years ago :D .

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I use a EV N/D478 and I like it a lot.

 

To hold the mic I use an old clamp that is normally used to hold drum mics to the rim of the drum and a piece of metal that I took from an old keyboard stand.

I've twisted the metal piece (bar) to fit under the amp head and bend down to the speaker.

It's sheap, works great, fast, and easy to carry around.

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Most of the better sound guys I work with use the 609 as well. I always have a 57 I carry just in case. I made a small mic holder out of a goose neck and a drum clamp that attaches to most combos and cabs that I carry as well.

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In a live rig, it's very unlikely you'd hear the difference between a 609 and a 57. There is, usually, such a large amount of the sound coming right offstage. So in club setups, the mic is there to fill in. 609 is very convenient. But 57s are everywhere. Use either.

 

Some basic placement parameters: The center of the cone is bright. The edge is warm. A good place to start is right between the edge and the cone's cap. Remember the cone is actually at a slant, right? So start with the diaphragm of the mic parallel to the slanted cone. That puts it at an angle to the eye. Meaning, the grill hides the fact that the cone actual is at an angle. So you start there. Not bright enough? Move to the center. To bright? Move to the edge. But like I said, You probably won't hear any difference in a club setting anyway, which is why the 609 is a nobrainer. Drape it over the amp and you're done.

 

Now... in the studio... it matters a LOT!

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Now... in the studio... it matters a LOT!

 

 

Boy howdy it does. I usually put two different mics near the speaker, one about 8-10' put in front of the amp, and one behind it (open back combo) and blend them in the mix, after figuring out which one sounds best to make it prominent.

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The Royer ribbon mic in that pic actually sounds BETTER if you point the rear at the amp.
:freak:


Terry D.

 

My favorite way to use a royer is to turn it around backwards. They are expensive mics ... but therr is nothing better at any price for micing a guitar ca

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#3 is really more important than many people realize. A couple inches difference either way can make a dramatic difference in the sound. A good learning source is youtube, which has a lot of videos where you can hear the differences in sound depending on placement. Some bands look at me funny when I am using my flashlight thru the amp grill looking for the right spot to place the mic, lol. I also factor in what type of guitar is being used when placing the mic. (Single coils are brighter, humbuckers not so much). As to #1, I usually use Sennheiser E609s and drape them over the amp as others have mentioned. I also have a lot of SM57s, and those are fine as well.

 

 

When you find a good spot, tape a square around it so you know for next time. Takes some of the variability out of it.

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Like most, I've done 57's and 609's, heck, I even have an old Shure 515 that sounds surprisingly good on guitar cabs for live and recording.

 

I go for straight-on to the grill (not the cone) and about half-way between the dustcap and the edge.. never had any complaints. I've even draped a 57 from the handle (used to do this at every show and it worked fine, even recordings from the night sounded really good!)

 

Recording, I let the engineer do whatever he/she wants, as long as the tone is captured. The latest sessions had a Neumann (someone painted it black) - 424025_298538203535376_273270286062168_7

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Also, FWIW.....I've always understood the importance of mic placement, but this really underscored it for me:

 

A few weeks ago we were playing a local club, and one of our area's most prominent sound guys happened to stop by. (FWIW, this guy has toured with countless big-name hard rock/metal bands, and has spent the past several years running the monitor mix for Motorhead.) As we sat there talking gear (yay!), he mentioned that my guitar was a bit muffled in the FOH mix, and suggested moving the mic in just a hair closer to the center of the speaker, toward the voice coil.

 

I asked whether it might not be easier to just bump up the treble or presence a bit, and he replied, "No, man.....don't mess with the tone at all. Your tone is awesome. The mistake a lot of guys make is they'll start with a great tone, but then they screw it up by using too much EQ, and it sounds squishy and unnatural.

 

"First, you want to get the best tone possible straight out of the amp.

 

"Once you've got your tone dialed in, instead of fiddling with the EQ knobs on the console, you want to leave them almost flat, and use mic placement for all your EQ'ing. If you need more high end, move the mic closer to the middle. If you need more low end, move it out toward the edge.

 

"And a little goes a long way. Moving the mic an inch or two in any direction will make a bigger difference than anything you can do with the EQ knobs on the console.....and it'll sound a hell of a lot more natural."

 

Words to live by.

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I'll use this thread to make a question:

 

In small pubs do you pan the miced guitar sound to be louder on the PA speaker farther way from the guitar amp?

 

Some people say that if you just use center pan on the PA the physical position of the guitar amp will create a natural pan that is nice and natural...

Some people say that if you balance that with the pan on the PA so that the guitar sounds the closest to center as possible, the guitar sound will be more evenly distributed through the room...

 

thoughts?

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I'll use this thread to make a question:


In small pubs do you pan the miced guitar sound to be louder on the PA speaker farther way from the guitar amp?


Some people say that if you just use center pan on the PA the physical position of the guitar amp will create a natural pan that is nice and natural...

Some people say that if you balance that with the pan on the PA so that the guitar sounds the closest to center as possible, the guitar sound will be more evenly distributed through the room...


thoughts?

 

 

We just keep the panning neutral in the mix, never really thought about it.. but it seems the simplest method, and simplicity sells!

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Also, FWIW.....I've always understood the importance of mic placement, but this really underscored it for me:


A few weeks ago we were playing a local club, and one of our area's most prominent sound guys happened to stop by. (FWIW, this guy has toured with countless big-name hard rock/metal bands, and has spent the past several years running the monitor mix for Motorhead.) As we sat there talking gear (yay!), he mentioned that my guitar was a bit muffled in the FOH mix, and suggested moving the mic in just a hair closer to the center of the speaker, toward the voice coil.


I asked whether it might not be easier to just bump up the treble or presence a bit, and he replied, "No, man.....don't mess with the tone at all. Your tone is awesome. The mistake a lot of guys make is they'll start with a great tone, but then they screw it up by using too much EQ, and it sounds squishy and unnatural.


"First, you want to get the best tone possible straight out of the amp.


"Once you've got your tone dialed in, instead of fiddling with the EQ knobs on the console, you want to leave them almost flat, and use mic placement for all your EQ'ing. If you need more high end, move the mic closer to the middle. If you need more low end, move it out toward the edge.


"And a little goes a long way. Moving the mic an inch or two in any direction will make a bigger difference than anything you can do with the EQ knobs on the console.....and it'll sound a hell of a lot more natural."


Words to live by.

 

 

Great post!!!!! Absolutely. Moving a mic for eq is way more effective than choosing a 609 over a 57. Of course it all has an effect. But the most effective changes (assuming the PA portion of your tone is contributing much to the room) the most effective changes are mic to speaker area placement. As I said earlier, the dust cap, the center is bright. the outer edge is warmer. You just slide it along that scale to optimize what the mic is hearing. Use eq as a last resort.

 

Look at any sound guy who reaches for eq before he moves the mic and I bet he has a fat ass.

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