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  • "Start from scratch" -- craigslist ad. And I responded.....

    Yep, the old revolving door

    Going to jail for 6 months tends to have that effect. But I gotta get back to playing music, so I went ahead and responded to the ad by sending some samples of my playing.

    Guy responded and wants to get together.

    Hmm. So what i've got to do is communicate and feel this dude out. What I bring to the table: 90% of a PA, drum mics, a few vocal mics, a good effects professor, etc... + full keys/synth/bass rig and ability to use it.

    I really want to "run" this band in terms of arranging and getting gigs. Just want to make sure this is the right dude(s) to do that with.

    Ever had this situation? My goal is to invest more money before years end to have a complete PA and a few more mics, etc. I figure that counts for something, right

    Here's the thing: my old band has slipped backwards musically but they get consistent good gigs. So I want to take their business approach but mate it with better, mistake free and confident performances. The market is there in other words....

    (Modulusman: Yeah, I do have a sub. Planning on getting another one before too long. )
    Kickin' it in the sticks...

  • #2
    Only thing I got to offer is that I tried to 'run' a band with someone else once, which might have been the turning point where I changed my mind about anything democratic and band related. Only dictatorships work. Two captains is worse than an even democracy, IMO. YMMV
    Sig Fail

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, I think you probably know most of my thoughts on all this stuff by now, but let me re-cap in as abbreviated a form as I can muster....

      The #1 over-riding concept is having EVERYONE ON THE SAME PAGE. So the trick here is going to be FIRST--feel this guy out and if you two click at all, come up with your PAGE together. You don't have enough to offer right now for this to be the Wades Keys Project and you just hire the players you want, so you're going to need to have at least one other dude who is on the same page as you. So if you guys click in terms of the musical direction and the general business plan---then you're good to go. Then set off and find others that fit in with what you need to do.

      Obviously, as with any business/personal relationship, you make adjustments for others' desires, talents and personalities. Be firm and confident about what you want to do and where you want the band to go, but don't be rigid. Take charge, but don't be a dictator/tyrant. Let the band form organically, but like a tree you need to nuture and prune and pay all the necessary attention to keep it growing straight and strong and in the right direction.

      No two bands are alike and no two will or should take the same path. So again, the only thing I really keep emphasizing is SAME PAGE SAME PAGE SAME PAGE. To what degree that means you bending or the other guys bending or you need different guys...no one can decide that but you. But the #1 thing I've learned from all my years of doing this is that when people are on the same page things go great. When they aren't and some guys are either pretending it's better for them than it is, or hoping it's going to get better later on, or biting their lip and just putting up with it for the money, or fighting about things constantly, it's NEVER going to work.
      _________________________________________________
      band websites:
      http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
      https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
      https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
      http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you considered talking to all the gigging musicians in town and asking who's available? Not to ask if they're available. Cause... even when nobody's available and you know it... people can make themselves available for the right situation. And you never know who's unhappy in their current gig. So just asking who's free is a way to not ask "...are you free?"
        __________
        Your god doesn't exist but my god does and he is all loving. If you disagree with me I'll kill you. - Prince Ea

        Comment


        • #5
          I hear ya. I want jobs and people doing those jobs. I want to be band director, musically. I think I can do it. Hell, I did that a little in my last gigging band: the proof is in the pudding since I left - sloppy arrangements and more mistakes than ever before (I have this on VERY good un-biased authority).

          So what I want to do is herd cats. Make charts. Listen critically. Run the PA. Be a helpful guide with arrangements. Resolve "misunderstandings" through application of chord theory. Work with the rhythm section to create a solid foundation. Help keep rehearsals on track, focused on "watching film" and eliminating mistakes.
          Kickin' it in the sticks...

          Comment


          • #6
            Have you considered talking to all the gigging musicians in town and asking who's available? Not to ask if they're available. Cause... even when nobody's available and you know it... people can make themselves available for the right situation. And you never know who's unhappy in their current gig. So just asking who's free is a way to not ask "...are you free?"

            Yes I have and I have a couple of feelers out along those lines. Chris Jackson, the drummer from Black Mudd, is free and I'd LOVE to play with that guy. That band just broke up because the singer wanted more family time. They were with Triangle talent and had a great following and reputation. So yeah, I need to keep on top of Chris because unless he was a master bull****************ter, he was very complimentary of my short time playing with him and the crew.
            Kickin' it in the sticks...

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah, it seems like there's always somebody established looking. I'm not knocking CL, you never know... but man, what a freaking crap shoot! I'll take proven goods any day.
              __________
              Your god doesn't exist but my god does and he is all loving. If you disagree with me I'll kill you. - Prince Ea

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, I think you probably know most of my thoughts on all this stuff by now, but let me re-cap in as abbreviated a form as I can muster....

                The #1 over-riding concept is having EVERYONE ON THE SAME PAGE. So the trick here is going to be FIRST--feel this guy out and if you two click at all, come up with your PAGE together. You don't have enough to offer right now for this to be the Wades Keys Project and you just hire the players you want, so you're going to need to have at least one other dude who is on the same page as you. So if you guys click in terms of the musical direction and the general business plan---then you're good to go. Then set off and find others that fit in with what you need to do.

                Obviously, as with any business/personal relationship, you make adjustments for others' desires, talents and personalities. Be firm and confident about what you want to do and where you want the band to go, but don't be rigid. Take charge, but don't be a dictator/tyrant. Let the band form organically, but like a tree you need to nuture and prune and pay all the necessary attention to keep it growing straight and strong and in the right direction.

                No two bands are alike and no two will or should take the same path. So again, the only thing I really keep emphasizing is SAME PAGE SAME PAGE SAME PAGE. To what degree that means you bending or the other guys bending or you need different guys...no one can decide that but you. But the #1 thing I've learned from all my years of doing this is that when people are on the same page things go great. When they aren't and some guys are either pretending it's better for them than it is, or hoping it's going to get better later on, or biting their lip and just putting up with it for the money, or fighting about things constantly, it's NEVER going to work.

                But that's the thing. I don't want to have THAT much "power". I'm not a front guy. I would rather be more like Alan Parsons, controlling or having final say over sound issues and arrangements. Most of those things the other guys don't REALLY want to deal with anyway. They just want to play and get paid, and have some say in their parts and in song selection. All that would be the case. I just want to bring what I feel are my talents to the arrangement table to get things TIGHT and mistake-rree. Mistakes and lack of confidence are what I see holding a lot of good players back. I'd like to help those type of guys (and myself) reach their potential through repetition and charted, confident musical arrangements. My knowledge of theory and composition would and I think SHOULD be an asset in allowing this to happen. Not to wave dick or shut out other players, but to resolve, edify, and really guide everyone down a mistake free path.
                Kickin' it in the sticks...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Only thing I got to offer is that I tried to 'run' a band with someone else once, which might have been the turning point where I changed my mind about anything democratic and band related. Only dictatorships work. Two captains is worse than an even democracy, IMO. YMMV


                  Partly because I have a bit bigger project going on, so I'm more able to do this more than some other bands might, but I run my band in the manner I've learned from running successful retail operations: I take on the role of "general manager" and I have various "assistants" who handle different "departments". I organize the general game-plan--with input from everyone, of course--and, depending on their strengths, different people handle different operations. My bass player handles booking the gigs because he's the "salesman". My drummer is the "musical director" and he and I work together on the song choices and arrangements. One of the singers takes control of the gig after it is booked and she is the contact person who handles all the details. The other two don't really want to do much more than just show and up and play, so that's what they do. Everyone is as involved as they want to be, but it all flows through me and I set the overriding agenda. MY main job ends up being making sure they understand what they need to do, why they need to do it, and making sure it gets done.

                  So it's neither a democracy nor a dictatorship really. More of top-down corporate board-of-directors type operation.
                  _________________________________________________
                  band websites:
                  http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
                  https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
                  https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
                  http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    But that's the thing. I don't want to have THAT much "power". I'm not a front guy. I would rather be more like Alan Parsons, controlling or having final say over sound issues and arrangements. Most of those things the other guys don't REALLY want to deal with anyway. They just want to play and get paid, and have some say in their parts and in song selection. All that would be the case. I just want to bring what I feel are my talents to the arrangement table to get things TIGHT and mistake-rree. Mistakes and lack of confidence are what I see holding a lot of good players back. I'd like to help those type of guys (and myself) reach their potential through repetition and charted, confident musical arrangements. My knowledge of theory and composition would and I think SHOULD be an asset in allowing this to happen. Not to wave dick or shut out other players, but to resolve, edify, and really guide everyone down a mistake free path.


                    Hmmm....

                    I can only relate from my own experiences, but I'd really advise to back off the musical end of it. People don't want to be taught or dictated to on how to play their parts. Musically, a band is about everyone coming together and seeing what the soup tastes like. I've never been in a situation that worked out well where somebody was telling everyone else what and how to play. Sure...arrangements have to be built and everyone has to play stuff that works. And when somebody is playing something that doesn't work, that needs to be addressed. But getting nitpicky about every note or beat? I wouldn't do that. I let my guys pretty much have free reign over what they play (we're playing covers---90% of it is "play what's on the record" anyway...) and as long as we're all playing the same chords and the rhythms match properly, I'm not going to get into "that drum beat goes like this" or "I think the bass player hits a C# in the middle of the lick" too much. Unless it's something that's just really crucial to the song.

                    Especially in the early days of the band. Get it up and running first. Make sure you've got the right bunch of guys for what you want to do. If your players need rudimentary lessons on playing without mistakes and basic theory....maybe you need better players to start with.
                    _________________________________________________
                    band websites:
                    http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
                    https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
                    https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
                    http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Partly because I have a bit bigger project going on, so I'm more able to do this more than some other bands might, but I run my band in the manner I've learned from running successful retail operations: I take on the role of "general manager" and I have various "assistants" who handle different "departments". I organize the general game-plan--with input from everyone, of course--and, depending on their strengths, different people handle different operations. My bass player handles booking the gigs because he's the "salesman". My drummer is the "musical director" and he and I work together on the song choices and arrangements. One of the singers takes control of the gig after it is booked and she is the contact person who handles all the details. The other two don't really want to do much more than just show and up and play, so that's what they do. Everyone is as involved as they want to be, but it all flows through me and I set the overriding agenda. MY main job ends up being making sure they understand what they need to do, why they need to do it, and making sure it gets done.

                      So it's neither a democracy nor a dictatorship really. More of top-down corporate board-of-directors type operation.

                      YEah, like THAT.

                      That's what I want!

                      Everybody doing the job that best suits their talents!
                      Kickin' it in the sticks...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes I have and I have a couple of feelers out along those lines. Chris Jackson, the drummer from Black Mudd, is free and I'd LOVE to play with that guy. That band just broke up because the singer wanted more family time. They were with Triangle talent and had a great following and reputation. So yeah, I need to keep on top of Chris because unless he was a master bull****************ter, he was very complimentary of my short time playing with him and the crew.


                        A good bass player is hard to find. a good bass player drummer combo is gold. Add a lead player and you have a turn key backing band.
                        "you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hmmm....

                          I can only relate from my own experiences, but I'd really advise to back off the musical end of it. People don't want to be taught or dictated to on how to play their parts.

                          I know they don't.

                          But sour notes and bad time are what they are. Mistakes. Needing correction. I was given this role at age 19, even when I made mistakes as a player. The pastor saw in me the ability to understand music on a more deep level than the rest of the cats, and he appointed me in that role. It worked. Diplomacy is needed. And I take correction too. It's all about serving the MUSIC, not ME or some concept of "I'm right". See, I'm the guy with the reference mp3 player. So let's listen. See? Let other people hear the mistakes and make comments. I've gotten drummers involved in chord discussions.....yeah. And that's cool. It's not about dictating. It's freedom to speak. See, that doesn't sound right, and I'm not a guitarist and I don't know chords but that doesn't sound right. ME: "Try playing a Bm7 there instead". Drummer: "That sounds better.". Actual incident. That's how I try to roll. Get everyone involved. Serve the music.

                          And on that incident: I had tried to coerce the guitarist to playing the right note. But he bucked me. So I backed off. Dropped a pointer to the drummer so he'd listen for it. He heard it. He brought it up. Then I stepped in with the the right chord: easy.

                          Another time, I was playing the "wrong" chord. It clashed with the guitar. On superstition. Before we got the interplay down. Those flat and sharp five's can cause hell when you've got SRV over there and you're trying to do Stevie Wonder over here. Took a little bit of compromise. I changed my voicing to be more "open" and that note didn't sound so "off". But he was playing straight fifths. No bueno. Finally got him to do the flat/sharp fives where needed. BUt I compromised until he changed his "tune".
                          Kickin' it in the sticks...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A good bass player is hard to find. a good bass player drummer combo is gold. Add a lead player and you have a turn key backing band.



                            This is true. Back in the 80's I hooked up with the "the best drummer in town". Mark Spriggs, RIP. Love you Mark. Anyway... we climbed the ladder together. Approached by band after band till the eventual signing with MCA. We were a team. They called us "the rhythm section". Finding a partner can really increase the value of your stock.
                            __________
                            Your god doesn't exist but my god does and he is all loving. If you disagree with me I'll kill you. - Prince Ea

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Only thing I got to offer is that I tried to 'run' a band with someone else once, which might have been the turning point where I changed my mind about anything democratic and band related. Only dictatorships work. Two captains is worse than an even democracy, IMO. YMMV


                              No leadership? You're not going anywhere but staying in the basement forever. Two people (or three, like my last band!) trying to run the show? It's always going to be a problem.

                              Find out if this guy ever ran a band before. If he has, tread carefully. It seems like most people that have been a bandleader in the past can't easily adapt to being a bandmember. I can do it for short periods of time, but eventually, I'm going to want to do things my way.

                              If you want to be the boss, just let him know that you will be the bandleader outright.

                              The reason my band works right now is because both the bass player and the drummer don't want to lead it. They'd rather let me make the bandleader decisions and just play (and help with equipment setup and teardown). But all the other crap, like booking, negotiating, firing/hiring, promo, etc.? They are perfectly happy not dealing with it. I've met far too many people that don't fit this profile and it's always been a struggle because of it. One leader or a very strong team where everyone does actually pull their weight is the way to go.
                              (This is my Non-Signature.)

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