Members 992gnt Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 So, can a good (great?) band sell any song to a crowd? Or does the song have to be saleable first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Did you wake up today and say "I'm going to come up with a thread concept that is guaranteed to go at least three pages?" My take is the right band can sell the right song. The catch is you have to be the right band. Katy Perry can not sell "Enter Sandman," but could Tom Waits sell it? Maybe. As usual, it's about the band picking the right song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toober Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 You need a good band, or a good song, or a drunk crowd, or a combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2012 Katy Perry can not sell "Enter Sandman," I think you're wrong. For the same reasons that a lot of people failed to see the connection between Def Leopard and Shania Twain. Both produced by Mutt Lange. And when you really listen to both you realize there is a underlying factor that ties the two together. So... ...yes, I do believe Katy Perry could do a smash up job with Enter Sandman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members snoggin Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Most people can appreciate a great performance.. Within reason of course . Some folks just don't like certain genre's. I like anything with good instrumental and vocal performance. But I'm old and the newer paradigm of choreographed stage moves and huge crowds of dancers leaves me flat.. But I do like Lady gaga.. Haven't heard much from her lately though. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2012 So, can a good (great?) band sell any song to a crowd? Or does the song have to be saleable first? My question. Why would you want ot to sell any song? Why not make it a great song? And a great band. Not necessarily a universally known song, but a great one? Absolutely. One the audience has never heard before? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Theoretically, yes. A great band can sell any song. But matching song with performer is part of the game and is part of what makes a great band great. Done right, Katy Perry could sell Enter Sandman, but there might be 1,000 songs that would work better for her, so that might not be the BEST choice. Or maybe it would Especially for a cover band, song choice is part of what you use to connect to the audience. Having the right song can do a LOT of the work for you, so why NOT let it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 I believe that the right band can sell any song...but I'm also willing to admit that my band needs well known songs to get the best possible reaction from the crowd. I'm fine with that, and I actually enjoy trying to figure out which songs are going to get the best possible audience response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 A band can sell a song all they want.....that doesn't mean every audience wants to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted May 22, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 We are struggling a little bit. I think we have some good songs (not 3 sets worth), but we aren't getting the consistent reaction we are looking for (ie. dancing, interaction). Some of it is definitely our delivery - I don't think as a band we are "grooving" all the time and that seems to be bringing our energy down. On the other hand, I don't think we aren't completely missing the mark either. I saw a seasoned top area band play a big festival show friday night. They didn't have much crowd participation, but they kept at it. Finally, half way through the second of two sets they hit paydirt. With Talk Dirty to Me. A big crowd dancing the rest of the set, begging for encores when they finished. They weren't playing any differently, or acting any differently on stage - maybe the crowd was just ready then? I'm just trying to take what I observed and put my band in that context - what they do differently than us and how it affects the crowd. We play a few of the same songs, but songs I thought would kill for them fell flat - songs we were contemplating adding (moves like jagger for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Who's doing the selling? The frontman? Guitarist? Hopefully not the bass player lol. Serious question. How is "the band" going to sell a song? What can "the band" do? More banter? Better sound? More eye contact? More audience interaction? What is THE SELL anyway? And yeah, just because you don't get a reaction doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. Best to just stick to the script I guess and play through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toober Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'm just trying to take what I observed and put my band in that context - what they do differently than us and how it affects the crowd. We play a few of the same songs, but songs I thought would kill for them fell flat - songs we were contemplating adding (moves like jagger for example). You said not 3 sets worth of music...so were you opening for another band that the crowd was there to hear? If so, do both bands do similar music, tempo? Did the band after you get the crowd dancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Fart Rocker Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 So, can a good (great?) band sell any song to a crowd? Or does the song have to be saleable first? I'm not 100% sure how I feel about this. I think it has to start with the band. A great band can cover a wider spectrum of songs and make them sound good and ultimately sell it to the crowd. The great bands are going to "own" the song and not simply go through the motions. A lesser band probably needs to be more strategic in their song selection and pick songs that fit their capabilities and are going to have a broader appeal to the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 ...yes, I do believe Katy Perry could do a smash up job with Enter Sandman. I don't know if I buy that exactly/definitively for that artist, that song, but the principle behind it, that an artist can sell any song, no matter how much of a disconnect there is between the two on first blush...depending, of course, on the artist...yeah, I agree 100%. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRQtldkHT3E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 992gnt Posted May 22, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 You said not 3 sets worth of music...so were you opening for another band that the crowd was there to hear? If so, do both bands do similar music, tempo? Did the band after you get the crowd dancing? We have 3+ sets worth of music, just not all killer songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Who's doing the selling? The frontman? Guitarist? Hopefully not the bass player lol.Serious question. How is "the band" going to sell a song? What can "the band" do? More banter? Better sound? More eye contact? More audience interaction?What is THE SELL anyway? THE SELL is the performance. Could Katy Perry sell "Enter Sandman"? Perhaps. But one thing she'd WOULDN'T do would be a note-for-note cover the Metallica version. She'd make it her own and sell to her audience in her style. The more any band relies on just playing note-for-note covers, the more it IS about the song, because the band is little more than a live jukebox in that instance. If that's all you're doing, then yes---just stick to the hits and the "easy sell" songs. Same way radio stations do it. A GREAT band is one that has its own image and persona and the songs are chosen to fit all of that. If Katy were to chose to do "Sandman" it would be because she felt that song highlighted a certain aspect of her image and persona and would choose it in the same way she chooses which outfit or hairstyle to wear. GREAT cover bands need to look at each song in their setlist in a similar manner: what does this song do for us and for our entire set? How are we reaching the audience with this song and what aspect of ourselves are we selling with this particular song choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Why would you want ot to sell any song? Because it's a topic on a message board. Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 We have 3+ sets worth of music, just not all killer songs. My take is why aren't they all killer songs? What's three sets like 45 tunes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Because it's a topic on a message board. Just sayin... It's a symbiotic relationship between performer and song. A great song can make a good performer great and a great performer can make a good song great. The performer sells the song and song sells the performer. When you reach that pinnacle, then you've established that nirvana. Now, just repeat it 45 times a night.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 We have 3+ sets worth of music, just not all killer songs. I think it just takes time to develop a feel for what's going to work for you as a band. When I made the commitment to playing crowd friendly songs, I had a bunch of misses that I thought should have worked, but now I'm getting to the point where the bulk of what we add go over great and I'm getting a better feel for when to put them in the set depending on the venue we're playing. One interesting thing you'll find over time is that songs that go over great now suddenly won't go over as well because they're surrounded by songs that fit your band even better. Going back to the original premise, while I think the right band can sell any song, I think you (and I) need to concentrate on what songs give our respective bands the best chance for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 One interesting thing you'll find over time is that songs that go over great now suddenly won't go over as well because they're surrounded by songs that fit your band even better. Yep. We defiinately went through that period and I often wonder about it when I see someone here talk about a song that "goes over great" that was one we dumped years ago because so many 'better' songs pushed that one to the back-of-the-pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wardjames Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yep. We defiinately went through that period and I often wonder about it when I see someone here talk about a song that "goes over great" that was one we dumped years ago because so many 'better' songs pushed that one to the back-of-the-pack. Yeah, when we have these conversations about what new songs everybody's adding...it's tough to tell what will work taken out of the context of what the rest of the setlist looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 The band i play in does a ton of stuff, many in the crowd have never heard. The reason this stuff works is that on any typical night the crowd contains fans that are already sold on the front man and the band. By the end of the night, a good many of the new people in the crowd are also sold on the front man and the band. We play a house gig and are exclusive to one venue. The off property stuff is either pvt events or festivals/ street fair type stuff. The whole thing is driven by a fan base of people who are sold on the front man and the band. This seems to be how things work down here. Fan base tend to drive the most popular acts. For many bands ,, they make it work by having a set list that the people, who are mostly strangers are sold on ,, and a solid performance and look on stage goes on to sell them on the band. For a pvt event type band ,, this seems to be the best model. Its all good ,, you just have to do what works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 We are struggling a little bit. I think we have some good songs (not 3 sets worth), but we aren't getting the consistent reaction we are looking for (ie. dancing, interaction). Some of it is definitely our delivery - I don't think as a band we are "grooving" all the time and that seems to be bringing our energy down. On the other hand, I don't think we aren't completely missing the mark either. I saw a seasoned top area band play a big festival show friday night. They didn't have much crowd participation, but they kept at it. Finally, half way through the second of two sets they hit paydirt. With Talk Dirty to Me. A big crowd dancing the rest of the set, begging for encores when they finished. They weren't playing any differently, or acting any differently on stage - maybe the crowd was just ready then? Being able to read the crowd is important in many instances. We played a private event (annual dinner/dance for a golf club) that we played last year as well. Mostly 40-60 age group. Last year we had the crowd jumping and hopping for the first set, and then all but maybe a dozen people hung around for the 2nd set. So we figured it would be basically the same deal this year. Last year, they also responded really well to some of the more current stuff, so we had some of that in the first set as well. This year---total opposite response even though I recognized many of the same faces from the year before. Not much response at all during the first set--only so-so response to dancing and most of the newer songs fell flat. But looking out at the crowd during the break I see that not many people have left--they're all just gathered outside drinking and chatting after dinner. (It was a hot night and the room was hot inside.) So I decide to re-write the 2nd set with mostly older classics and we let-her-rip and we had the place jumping and rocking for the rest of the night. Two encores. Go figure? My take on it is it was much hotter this year than last, and as such they were less ready to jump out of their seats right after dinner and start dancing. But who would know that in advance? And the lesser response to the newer material this year than last? Could have been any number of reasons for that. The point being, you need to be willing and able to react on the fly sometimes and let the crowd take the band where you need to go to make the gig a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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