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Adapting To No Bassist - Ideas for creating a huge sound and interesting ideas


leftajarandy

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Hi everyone

Long time since I've posted here - mainly because we've been very busy :lol:

 

However, after a long string of situation changes, we are now a 3 piece with no bassist (1 drum/vocal, guitars and lead singer).

 

We have traditionally been a heavy rock/funk outfit (sound clips here if you want more detail: http://soundcloud.com/leftajar/sets/one/).

 

We now have to adapt to having no bassist - I'd like to bounce ideas around for creating a big soundscape and I'm open to anything.

 

What I am currently trialing:

     

    I'm also very into keeping it simple (a la White Stripes) but I'd like to combine a few different ideas.

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One possible way would be for the guitarist that is more rhythm-oriented to switch to an 8-string guitar, with the lowest strings tuned to E and A. Getting a speaker cabinet that could handle the lower frequencies (perhaps a powered PA speaker) would help too. That way, you could have the best of both worlds. The low end would be there as well as the stuff you normally do on guitar.

 

The octave pedal is probably the cheaper bet, but you would still need to get an amp/cab that can handle the low bass frequencies or you'll blow a speaker.

 

Ultimately, if you can only afford to change one thing, buy a used bass amp and have the guitarist that will serve as the 'lower guitarist' play through that. Playing a lot more on the lower strings and changing the EQ would probably fill in most of the sonic space you would otherwise be lacking. Good luck.

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Look for a guitar subwoofer like a Rivera Los Lobottom or an ISP Vector.

 

Or...

 

Also, a Line 6 Vetta can do 2 amps at once: play in stereo with one side being regular guitar tone going to a conventional cab, the other a much fatter tone going to a ported cab, which I'd recommend you load with EVM-12L's so you don't rip the stock speakers to shreds. I guess Emi Delta Pro 12s or Swamp Thangs could handle it too

 

Or...

 

Start picking up the bass and choose among countless guitar players that are always more available than bass players.

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It's been a few years since I was in a bass-less band, but the problem then was one of movement, rather than of range. We didn't miss the low end as much as we wanted the rhythm and harmonic support. With this premise, you'll get more mileage out of loops, delays, and well-conceived guitar parts than you will out of pitch shifting and bigger speakers.

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Start picking up the bass and choose among countless guitar players that are always more available than bass players.

 

 

Ultimately, this is probably the best solution from a sonic standpoint. "Well, Joe's gone...who's gonna play bass now?" is a common situation. The Beatles had that very thing happen when Stu Sutcliffe left the band. Paul McCartney had already been filling in on bass whenever he wasn't around, plus Lennon said "Oh no, I just bought a new Rickenbacker, I couldn't" (lol) and Harrison said something similar, so it just kind of worked out that way. Paul was still one of the main singers, so he just adapted it as another rhythmic instrument. If anything, with his switch to bass, it removed the extra rhythm guitar (redundant) and his creativity on the bass improved the band sound.

 

However, if the OP's band doesn't want to adapt like that, then other methods will have to be explored.

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I think we deffo need to move away from funk (for obvious reasons) and we don't want another "member".

 

I did consider getting a bass amp but how would this work when I'm playing chords etc? (Or would I have to avoid them).

 

I already used some octave pedal on a few of our tracks, but I'm thinking that I don't want to become to over-reliant on it - ie our whole set is based on the pedal.

 

I might consider doing some pre-recorded stuff? (Guitar and bass)

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No kidding. It would sound like dogs ass.
:lol:

 

Well........

 

Listen to the sound cloud link. The guitarist kicks ass! As does the drummer. I love the idea of a guitar/drums/vox funk band. When you hear White Stripes/Black Keys/Little Hurricane live there's a common trait among the guitarists. They tend to use fat fingerings/voicings. And they tend use pedals that exaggerate the low end distortion/modulation. I sometimes go for a similar sound for recording (even when using a bass), by stacking distortion types. By either driving my OCD pedal by a nice clean boost (boss CS-2) first, then letting the output of the OCD drive the input of a tube amp, or by using fuzz pedals to drive the OCD then input stage.

 

Then rolling back the guitar tone knob and using the bass pickup.

 

The point is, as much as I love the guitar sound on your tune One, it has no girth. Girth comes from that murky intermodulation of tubes and pedals and bass pickups and rolled off guitar tone. And the player learning to alter his style a little to incorporate some low string downbeats to push that fuzz along with his mid and high syncopation that he is already doing so well.

 

This sounds like an awesome idea to me. Have fun with it.

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Bottom line for the Big Bottom, that is. But look at it this way: Does someone sitting on a stool playing an acoustic and singing, suck because they don't have a bass player? How about if they add a percussionist? Now add a few decibals and what's the big diff between that and the OP's current lineup? Is the method that big bands settled on in the 30's or so, the only viable way of making entertaining music? Good for the White Stripes and others for thinking outside the box (bass).

 

But the OP might give thought to a tuba, or a B3 player, if he is open to adding someone and no bass players are available.

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... Does someone sitting on a stool playing an acoustic and singing, suck because they don't have a bass player? ... But the OP might give thought to a tuba, or a B3 player, if he is open to adding someone and no bass players are available.

 

 

You could add bass on a electronic drum pad the drummer hits or with a keyboard of some kind.

 

The hard part is imaging the arrangement change.

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Bottom line for the Big Bottom, that is. But look at it this way: Does someone sitting on a stool playing an acoustic and singing, suck because they don't have a bass player? How about if they add a percussionist? Now add a few decibals and what's the big diff between that and the OP's current lineup? Is the method that big bands settled on in the 30's or so, the only viable way of making entertaining music? Good for the White Stripes and others for thinking outside the box (bass).


But the OP might give thought to a tuba, or a B3 player, if he is open to adding someone and no bass players are available.

 

 

It sounded like this band had a drummer, and electric guitar players. Its gonna need a bass to really have much of a market. Solo and duos are a different deal. Usually a lead singer with guitar and a side man. The side man can come in different forms. The best duo I have heard on a local scene had a side man who played conga , harp and steel drums and sang harmony. The lead singer and guitar player used a 12 string. Those guys rock. The op sounds like he is in an electric rock type band. I think that format needs a bass. Its gonna be pretty hard to not have a bass in that band and make is sound like much. Whats easier to find? a key guy or another bass player? we do trio gigs with keys , acoustic and bass. We do them with a lead guitar , bass and acoustic. the best duo format for us is acoustic and bass. Its pretty hard to find a key player thats got a good left hand because most band key guys end up with a lazy left hand from staying out of the way of the bass player. Key guys with great left hands many times have a hard time workin with a band because they walk all over the mix. I laughed my ass off this last week when a record producer said the best piano players in a country band have a beer in their left hand and make the money with their right hand. For sure there are exceptions.

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Some great suggestions coming in - thank you to everyone who is adding to the conversation.

 

For those who are, with respect, please stop suggesting "add a bassist" - that's not what we want to do (long story). There's plenty of bands without a bassist, I'd like to explore what they do and techniques to fill the sound. If the discussion was "ideas to add members to my band" then a bassist is a great suggestion :)

 

The suggestion to switch to the bass pickup is a great idea - I'll start with this tomorrow in rehearsal. I normally like that attacky/cutting guitar tone, but I think I'm going to have to make a compromise.

 

Maybe I could try switching between the 2 pup's and combining it with a channel change (i.e switch from OD to DIST and also lead to rhythm PUP), that could give a big "effect" into a chorus!?

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Maybe I could try switching between the 2 pup's and combining it with a channel change (i.e switch from OD to DIST and also lead to rhythm PUP), that could give a big "effect" into a chorus!?

 

 

If you wanted to go deep, you could wire your two pickups to come out of your guitar in stereo, and run each pickup into its own amp (and through its own effects path). Definitely opportunities for HUGE there.

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when I was playing guitar and leading music at church if the bassist didn't show I would put down the guitar and play bass to complement the pianist. It makes for a more listenable sound.... on some rock or jazz songs I think vocals, bass, and drums can work as good as having guitar.

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Some great suggestions coming in - thank you to everyone who is adding to the conversation.


For those who are, with respect, please stop suggesting "add a bassist" - that's not what we want to do (long story). There's plenty of bands without a bassist, I'd like to explore what they do and techniques to fill the sound. If the discussion was "ideas to add members to my band" then a bassist is a great suggestion
:)

The suggestion to switch to the bass pickup is a great idea - I'll start with this tomorrow in rehearsal. I normally like that attacky/cutting guitar tone, but I think I'm going to have to make a compromise.


Maybe I could try switching between the 2 pup's and combining it with a channel change (i.e switch from OD to DIST and also lead to rhythm PUP), that could give a big "effect" into a chorus!?

 

I read your comment and I respect what you are saying , and I actually took the time to listen to your band on your myspace page. I cant see your music workin without some real bottom end. Tracks, keybass or somthing. Its pretty hard to build a house without a foundation. your music needs low tones to be effective from my point of view. Try some things , do some recordings and post them. Guys are pretty good on here about letting you know if they think it works.

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The problem isnt the fact that there isnt as much low end as there isnt another instrument playing grooves, counterpoints etc....

 

If you dont want to add a bassist i would recommend someone in the band pickup the bass. Funk without bass is like metal without guitars, im sure it could be done but why put yourself thru it?

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The problem isnt the fact that there isnt as much low end as there isnt another instrument playing grooves, counterpoints etc....


If you dont want to add a bassist i would recommend someone in the band pickup the bass. Funk without bass is like metal without guitars, im sure it could be done but why put yourself thru it?

 

 

Good point. We aren't fixed to being funk though, we can try anything really, it's more about how we get there.

 

I'm more interested in exploring new sounds/genres than saying "well we started as a funk band so we have to stay like this now". We have a decent following in our local area but we aren't at a point where we would "lose" anything by going back to the drawing board.

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Get a Micro Pog. Send the effected out (an octave lower than your guitar) to a direct box and then to the PA. Keep the settings on the conservative side or it can end up sounding piano-like and not in a good way. If you do a guitar solo, turn it off.

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My group has never had a bass player and we are celebrating 20 years of doing gigs this year. The key for us is the type of guitar sound and the style of rhythm guitar playing. We are three guys, two guitars and congas. Sometimes the other guitarist plays electric and he lays down some bass lines on his guitar when not playing lead, but we can do our thing without bass lines. He does a lot of muting when playing bass lines so it sounds a lot like a salsa style bass approach.

 

My guitar sound has tons of low end, mids, and overtones-it fills up a lot of space. I use a flamenco guitar and my style is based on flamenco techniques. Rasquedos, rumba and tango rhythm patterns, arpeggios, alzapua, those sounds are able to create a satifying listening experience and support without bass. For several years we had a fourth member-we could have added bass, but we went for the best player, who happened to be a violinist. We have done all kinds of gigs-dinner joints to concerts. The violinist recently moved away so we are three again. I have no plans to add a fourth player at this point. We aren't a dance band, we are more a sit down and listen band, but that has never stopped people from dancing.

 

I don't know if any of this would work for the op, but my point is you can rock the house without a bass player-there is no doubt of that.

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