Talented = Dysfunctional ?

[Outkaster]

This is going to sound odd but it had been on mind lately. I have played in a bunch of bands in my musical career, but there has always been some underlying constant that reoccurs with these groups. Sometimes to me it seems the more talented vocally and musically people are the more dysfunctional they are. I know that seems odd to say and a blanket statement but it

[MikeyParent]

So as a guy at the other end of the spectrum, I ask, which do you prefer?

[Outkaster]

It

[Vito Corleone]

Honestly, I don't find that much of a corelation. But I think when someone is very talented and a bit odd/dysfunctional it stands out more. And we're inclined to give him/her a pass because of his/her talent.

 

Untalented people that are dysfunctional we simply are just less willing to put up with, but trust me---they are out there! They just don't stay in the band/business that long because they aren't bringing ANYTHING of value to the table.

[FitchFY]

Someone once said, in reference to women, "Pretty, smart, and sane -- choose two."

 

I think the same goes for musicians: "Talented, smart, and sane -- choose two."

[Vito Corleone]

I'm the only musician I know who is talented, smart and sane. The rest are all a bunch of crazy idiots.

[authoreyes]

I would have to say, in my experience...there is truth to this (Although, as guido61 mentioned, maybe it is a bit of a confirmation bias)

 

By trade, I am software engineer. In the last decade I have worked with some really brilliant minds at various startups, and there is an apparent correlation between some level of, let's say eccentricity, with the the truly talented. Likewise, since music is mathematical and flows in the same area of the brain, many are musicians...And I would say the more creative, daring ones usually have some severe functioning issues in what the majority would call the real world.

 

But, I may just be full of {censored}...Please be aware that always has a high probability of being the issue...

[nchangin]

 

No transportation - usually bass players Difficult or dysfunctional home life - normally guitar player Addiction problems - normally any player Money problems - always the guitar player (but has 18 amps, 25 geetars, 5 wireless and 88 foot controller thingamabobs on the floor) Lack of good instrumentation - always the bass player Communication problems - normally geetar players

 

 

I'm a drummer so I have a right to be biased about all the above haha

 

Ok seriously: Seen it all really I have and put many wasted hours in trying to understand, negotiate and compromise to alleviate those shortfalls with no success, hence I will not do any drum work unless there are relationships established because in the end I am out time energy and money in a feeble wasted attempt to play for my music addiction.

 

I can satisfy that addiction at home without dealing with some asshole with Communication problems, Lack of good instrumentation, No transportation, Difficult or dysfunctional home life, Addiction problems (mental or physical) and lack of financial stability.

[toddkuen]

"Dysfunctional" depends on your perspective. If someone thinks great mathematical thoughts they may just not be interested driving. I am also in software and I find that when I am "on to" something requiring serious mental horsepower other things may fade away into the background noise.

 

Now I don't lose my driving skills but they can distract my social skills.

 

I think dysfunctional mostly equals doing things in a way "normal" people don't understand.

[authoreyes]

"Dysfunctional" depends on your perspective. If someone thinks great mathematical thoughts they may just not be interested driving. I am also in software and I find that when I am "on to" something requiring serious mental horsepower other things may fade away into the background noise. Now I don't lose my driving skills but they can distract my social skills. I think dysfunctional mostly equals doing things in a way "normal" people don't understand.

 

Well said, and nice to meet another musical dev

[stratotastic]

I'm the only musician I know who is talented, smart and sane. The rest are all a bunch of crazy idiots.

 

Haha, nice. Would smart and half-talented + half-sane work? If so, that's me.

[Lee Knight]

 

"Dysfunctional" depends on your perspective. If someone thinks great mathematical thoughts they may just not be interested driving. I am also in software and I find that when I am "on to" something requiring serious mental horsepower other things may fade away into the background noise. Now I don't lose my driving skills but they can distract my social skills. I think dysfunctional mostly equals doing things in a way "normal" people don't understand.

 

 

nice...

 

I think the word "talented" is often confused with creative. The musicians, or software engineers, novelists or scientists... that we really respond to, tend to be the ones who "go there" whenever the need arises.

 

It is one thing to see a technician blast off 16th notes and make your jaw drop, and it's another thing to see someone blast off those 16ths and build and recede and build and take you almost there then make you wanna cry then get angry and then you burst!

 

That's creativity. It provokes, reacts... it is. And that is going to that place inside yourself that isn't hampered be rational thought. And to go there at will.

 

Yeah, that can be seen as dysfunctional in everyday life.

[toddkuen]

To the OP: I think its easy for the creative and talented people to be undisciplined or maybe "under disciplined."

 

People say, "hey, Joe's got some talent" so Joe figures he's all done, does nothing with his talent and acts like a prick because "he's so talented."

 

I think there's a "glass ceiling" for Joe's type which keeps them out of a lot of serious musical activity - basically no one can stand them.

 

What they need is to learn self discipline...

[Lee Knight]

 

To the OP: I think its easy for the creative and talented people to be undisciplined or maybe "under disciplined." People say, "hey, Joe's got some talent" so Joe figures he's all done, does nothing with his talent and acts like a prick because "he's so talented." I think there's a "glass ceiling" for Joe's type which keeps them out of a lot of serious musical activity - basically no one can stand them. What they need is to learn self discipline...

 

 

Boy... that's for sure.

 

I have a friend who went from a very shy, together, solid musician in the 80's. He started using. He started laying around all day and listening to Coltrane and Monk. His head was in the clouds, doing coke and exploring the nether regions mentally. On the surface it appeared he was living the life of an artist. He was living the life of an addict.

 

And what an amazing, yet completely inconsistent player he is at 55. Take Coltrane, Jeff Beck, Muddy Waters and Monk piano chords on guitar, and blend them together. now put that spirit into the distressed and handicapped body and mind of the long term addict. He's made my cry... his playing, it's so wonderful. He's made me want to to kick him in the face too for being so bad at times, so... disrespectful of what he has. All gitched out and afraid of hios own shadow. Next night he's the devil on fire.

 

Discipline is a good thing.

[toddkuen]

 

... Discipline is a good thing.

 

 

Ha Ha Ha - isn't that for sure, especially these days... I figure 90% of the problems you read about here just "go away" when the band and is members are "disciplined."

 

What I find interesting is that virtually all people think that creativity comes from have the "life of an artist" - basically doing nothing but "creating."

 

Personally I think this is backward and wrong - I am more creative with I have tons of other {censored} to do and can only grab short "bursts" to do music or whatever.

[rangefinder]

A interesting question to ask is: How does one GET to be extraordinarily talented?

 

Leaving out the one-in-a-billion "true" geniuses, the answer appears to be to combine some basic level of aptitude with what "normal" society would consider an unnatural, unhealthy obsession for the activity in question.

 

Is it any wonder that those people are not quite balanced?

[toddkuen]

Normal is decided by what the majority like or agree on - outliers of any kind always stand out.

 

I think the extremely talented are just majorities of one...

 

Almost everyone has aptitude in one area or another but it requires discipline to make use of it: 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.

 

Think of it this way: if you live in your own world and spend 16-18 hours a day on something you'll have 10K hours in less than two years. Now spend a decade of serious dedication and you seem like a genius...

[Outkaster]

SO being creative and talented or whatever you call it entitles you to keep a band at ransom. Thats BS.

[Old Fart Rocker]

I'm the only musician I know who is talented, smart and sane. The rest are all a bunch of crazy idiots.

 

Hey, I resemble that remark

[John Bartus]

I've known some incredibly talented players (mostly keyboardists -- go figure) who were so good at what they did, absolutely brilliant and so talented. They were also inconsistent and had (have) their own demons and issues that will ensure I'll never call them for a gig ever again. A couple actually need treatment (and probably medication) for mental illness. That being said, I've seen more than my share of talentless hacks with demons, issues, huge egos, and their heads so far up their asses that they haven't a clue (and never will) as to how bad they really are. I don't know if Talent = Dysfunction so much as Being a Dysfunctional Asshat = Dysfunction. Adding alcohol and drugs always compounds the problem.

 

Another reason why I tend to work solo more often than not...

[Thy God]

I'm sure I'm closer to the talented side than the sane/functional side.

[theAntihero]

 

That's creativity. It provokes, reacts... it is. And that is going to that place inside yourself that isn't hampered be rational thought. And to go there at will. Yeah, that can be seen as dysfunctional in everyday life.

 

 

I agree with this, ive always thought to be creative is to be irrationally insane. It takes a certain mindset to pull a tangible thing out of the ether and 90% of people cant do it.

[WynnD]

I know a guy just like that out here in Denver. Great performer with a very nice voice but totally impossible to work with. (At least off-stage and at rehearsal.) Always travels around with an entourage. My Bassist also had the unfortunate experience of trying to work with him and the same results. (So I'm guessing that it's not me that's crazy here.)

[wades_keys]

 

"Dysfunctional" depends on your perspective. If someone thinks great mathematical thoughts they may just not be interested driving. I am also in software and I find that when I am "on to" something requiring serious mental horsepower other things may fade away into the background noise. Now I don't lose my driving skills but they can distract my social skills. I think dysfunctional mostly equals doing things in a way "normal" people don't understand.

 

Yeah. Eccentric doesn't happen over night either. I definitely get "carried away" mentally: lost in thought. I've done my best work in software and musically while basically being in what could beat be described as a trance.

 

As someone who is diagnosed bipolar believe me, I understand how "boring" people can and will justify not working with me. I'm okay with that. Most of the time the feeling is mutual: I've yet to be inspired in any way by a player with that type of dis affected, corporate attitude.

 

{censored} man, my dad was a gangster basically who has been in several books! Boring ain't been a part of my life ever. Ya get what you see with me but I keep my gear in top shape and most times my transpo is up to speed.

[bassred]

I'm in a pretty good spot when it comes to 'not being a flake'. I tend to be the one who actually reads the emails advancing our shows, and I know the details (or have the email handy when a question comes up). I have a good career with a great company, so I'm not lacking in the money/car/equipment categories.

 

I am, however, only marginally talented, so I think i know where I made up for it all... Either way, I'm not 'bad', so no one is going to run and scream when I play, and I'm always ready to start on time... not too shabby if you ask me.

 

To the OP, I get what you are saying. There are a higher percent of flakes in our world, it would seem (simply because I can't say that I've payed attention to flakes in other worlds...)