First set song? Third set song? - What's the difference?

[9-Pin-Phoenix]

Lately we have been starting with the lighter stuff, and then getting heavier as the night goes on, but then I feel that our dance tunes are out of the way too early in the night. So, I'm working on refreshing our set list for an upcoming gig, and I see it referenced her that a particular song is a "First set song" or a "Third set song". What's the difference in your mind? How do you determine which songs go in which set?

Thanks!

[Chicken Monkey]

Depends on the venue. If it's a dinner-crowd thing, we'll put songs we want to try out but need to work on in the 3rd set. If it's a stay-to-the-bitter-end, type place, we put a lot of ravers at the end, and then close with a slow tune or two.

[martyr40]

We usually play from 9 pm to 1:30 (three hour + sets) and tI determine the pace of the set list like this;

Set 1 - first two or three songs are for us to warm up and work out sound issues (don't take this the wrong way, we give our all - all night long, but at the start of the evening there's usually only the regular bar flies in attendance and our hardcore fans) Once we get past that, it's time to start grabbing the incoming patrons attention so that by the end of the first set, they want more.

Set 2 - We pick up from the end of set 1 and deliver all the tunes the audience wants to hear along with the tunes we think they should be listening to - this set is usually our longest and has the highest concentration of crowd-pleasers.

Set 3 - We pick up from set 2, but now it's time to wind things down and, but also don't forget - the folks staying till closing are your professional party animals and you need to cater to them too. So we always like to send them off with a big bang at the end.

Since we've been doing this for a few years now, we have a higher concentration of crowd-pleasers to choose from and can rotate things between sets more freely. Another thing that we do to keep things fresh is we have three set-lists to choose from - they're all the same songs, but organized differently from set to set. Keeps things from getting stale since we only add new material to our set from October to May. From May through September we're usually swamped with gigs so we kind of forgo rehearsal unless we're writing new material of our own.

Kind of vague, but hopefully you get the point

[flanc]

It depends on the crowd. We often find audiences are just ordering their drinks and settling-in during the first set. We don't want to hit them with our harder stuff or our dancier stuff when they are not in the spirits to enjoy either...so, we do "first set" material. For us, it's up-tempo but not necessarily "dancie". For us, it's stuff by Adele (Someone Like You, Rumor Has It) U2 - Streets Have No Name, Filter - Take a Picture, Gotye - somebody that I used to know, etc

[9-Pin-Phoenix]

Thanks guys. This is helpful. Keep the tips coming.

I should have mentioned that we are a rock band that focuses on 90's and newer music. We generally play small bars, say 100 or less people. Very rarely are we playing to a "dinner crowd". Though the one time we did was a great gig!

[mstreck]

I think it's all going to depend on your band and your typical crowd, but here is what we do...

First set - 90's, head bopping stuff that lets people get settled in - some classic rock, some mild 80's, and we end the set with some current pop that Amy vocally knocks out of the park.

Second set - people are relaxing and letting down their guards, so we open with current dance/pop and transition into 80's hair metal and sing-along stuff.

Third set is full-blown party material, topped off with harder stuff from RATM, Metallica, Audioslave, etc. It's a drunken party at this point.

Here's an example:

SET ONE
1. VOLCANO GIRLS
2. JUST A GIRL
3. 1985
4. HIT ME
5. WALK THIS WAY
6. TUSH
7. I LOVE ROCK N ROLL
8. YOUR LOVE
9. 867-5309
10. ANY WAY YOU WANT IT
11. BOYS OF SUMMER
12. KEEP YOUR HANDS TO YOURSELF
13. HARD TO HANDLE
14. GRENADE
15. RAISE YOUR GLASS
16. ROLLIN THE DEEP/CRAZY

SET TWO
1. EVERYBODY TALKS
2. DOMINO/I GOTTA FEELIN'
3. HOT & COLD
4. CALL ME MAYBE
5. PERFECT
6. 99 RED BALLOONS
7. ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANE
8. REBEL YELL
9. YOU SHOOK ME
10. I WANT YOU TO WANT ME
11. SWEET CHILD
12. DON'T STOP BELIEVIN'

SET THREE
1. FORGET YOU
2. PRETTY FLY (FOR A WHITE GUY)
3. SMALL THINGS
4. FIGHT FOR RIGHT
5. SONG 2
6. THE JEFFERSONS
7. SHE HATES ME
8. ZOMBIE
9. YOU OUGHTA KNOW
10. SUPER BASS
11. ENTER SANDMAN
12. BULLS ON PARADE
13. COCHISE
14. HIGHER GROUND
15. ROCK AND ROLL

[WynnD]

Originally Posted by 9-Pin-Phoenix

Lately we have been starting with the lighter stuff, and then getting heavier as the night goes on, but then I feel that our dance tunes are out of the way too early in the night. So, I'm working on refreshing our set list for an upcoming gig, and I see it referenced her that a particular song is a "First set song" or a "Third set song". What's the difference in your mind? How do you determine which songs go in which set?

Thanks!

I have a few trumpet songs that can't be in the first set and can't be the first trumpet piece I play. Understand that I only play 20 songs on trumpet. (About 1/5 th of the material.) I just need a good warmup to get ready for the high notes on that instrument.

[9-Pin-Phoenix]

 

Originally Posted by WynnD

I have a few trumpet songs that can't be in the first set and can't be the first trumpet piece I play. Understand that I only play 20 songs on trumpet. (About 1/5 th of the material.) I just need a good warmup to get ready for the high notes on that instrument.

 

I can understand that. I played trumpet in high school. There are also a few songs that our singer prefers to be in the set earlier (You Oughta Know - Alannis Morisette) or later (The Pretender - Foo Fighters). We have been doing the Alannis in the first set, but I think we get too good of a reaction for it to be wasted there.

[Vito Corleone]

Depends on the venue, the gig, and the crowd.

When playing clubs, unless the venue/gig/crowd specifically calls for a lighter/softer first set (i.e. people still eating dinner) then I see no reason to not rock 'em as hard in the first set as in the third. If fact, it sometimes better to do so if you're going to have a good-sized crowd early on and you're trying to keep people in the venue.

The first set/third set stuff comes from the idea that there aren't going to be many people around early in the night so you can use the first set to blow through some weaker tunes or more "listening" type material as opposed to hard rockers or dance-floor fillers.

But a weak song is a weak song. If you're looking for spots in your set to play certain songs so that they cause the least amount of damage to the flow of the set, then it's probably best to just find a better song.

[guitarguy19]

 

Originally Posted by guido61

a weak song is a weak song. If you're looking for spots in your set to play certain songs so that they cause the least amount of damage to the flow of the set, then it's probably best to just find a better song.

 

^^ THIS. We're FINALLY getting to the point where there are very few songs we can only play in certain places. The ones that are "stuck" somewhere...like if we play them in the middle of our danceist set they'll clear the floor...are slowly but surely going buh bye.

[mrcpro]

Originally Posted by 9-Pin-Phoenix

How do you determine which songs go in which set?

Put the ones with the "F" bombs later in the night

Seriously if you're finding yourself running out of good material too early in the evening you just need more good material. If your set list is spanning two decades (1990s to present) there's a ton of stuff out there.

[9-Pin-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by mrcpro

Put the ones with the "F" bombs later in the night

Seriously if you're finding yourself running out of good material too early in the evening you just need more good material. If your set list is spanning two decades (1990s to present) there's a ton of stuff out there.

I'm not sure that we are running out of good material, I just want to make sure that we have the good material in the right spot.

I think as a band we waffle a little bit regarding dancing. We play a show where we get some good dancing and then we want to focus on that, but then the singer, and or bass player tend to want to only play the songs they want to play. We are trying to find a nice balance of songs that they like, are danceable, and can be covered with our instrumentation.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Originally Posted by 9-Pin-Phoenix

. . . but then the singer, and or bass player tend to want to only play the songs they want to play.

 

Ah . . . NOW we've got a thread!

[nchangin]

Originally Posted by 9-Pin-Phoenix

I think as a band we waffle a little bit regarding dancing. We play a show where we get some good dancing and then we want to focus on that, but then the singer, and or bass player tend to want to only play the songs they want to play. We are trying to find a nice balance of songs that they like, are danceable, and can be covered with our instrumentation.

Are these the songs that are clearing the dance floor by chance? What song titles do you speak of specifically?

[SpaceNorman]

Unless you're getting hired strictly to play your show (which I'm guessing is where Grant's NIAB band is at...) - you need to have the ability to tailor your set list a bit. If everything is drop dead killer dance stuff - you're going to overpower rooms that have you playing during the dinner transition. If you're light on crunchy rock stuff ... and you find yourself playing to a roomfull of guys ... all that Katy Perry stuff that killed with last night's dance crowd simply goes "poof". If all you've got is crunchy rock stuff ... well, all you got is crunchy rock stuff. If you're an event band playing "all ages" crowds - you need to be able to assess the room and have depth and breadth of playlist to go in any direction for at least a set or two.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Originally Posted by SpaceNorman

If you're an event band playing "all ages" crowds - you need to be able to assess the room and have depth and breadth of playlist to go in any direction for at least a set or two.

 

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but I keep asking band leaders on this forum exactly what it is they are "reading" which prompts them to feel the need to change their set list. No one has ever tried to break this down.

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but I keep asking band leaders on this forum exactly what it is they are "reading" which prompts them to feel the need to change their set list. No one has ever tried to break this down.

I don't think there's any "science" to it - but rather a gut feel. Things that jump out at me when I'm looking at what the set list says and deciding whether or not changes are needed include the following:

• Ratio of available seats to seats already filled
• Percentage of tables with food on them
• Age of the room
• Gender makeup of the room
• Nature of the conversation

The start of the ngiht for a room full of 40-50 somethings gets pitched differently than a room full of 20-30 somethings. A room full of folks who are still eating sees a different pitch than a room that's primary drinking. A room that's predominantly guys drinking gets a different opening than a room full of couples ... and both of those get a different opening from a room full of with "guys" tables and "ladies" tables.

Once we get past the first couple of songs - it's sorta like fishing .... you keep showing 'em different lures until you figure out what they're biting on today ... and then keep casting with what they respond to.

[SusieP]

Hit them with some of your most awesome stuff early on to make 'em sit up take notice and know that you are fabulous.
Opening number has to get their attention. Has to make 'em think.....wow!

At the very end of the night, hopefully they will have had such a good time and drunk enough alcohol to lose their artistic criticism ability and will be so blootered that as long as they hear a beat they can dance to it doesn't matter what you play!

Then in the middle, give 'em a nice mix of stuff.

I'd only do the slow, ease them into the show kind of music to open with if they are having dinner when you start.
No dinner, no need to ease them in slowly.

[jeff42]

we have certain medleys that are usually 2nd or early 3rd set medleys. They are the ones that have (or could have) crowd participation. The main thing is to get your show to have NO filler-ALL killer!

[9-Pin-Phoenix]

Ok, so without learning any new tunes, here is what I came up for our setlist next week. I'd be interested in your thoughts overall.

Set 1
Banditos - The Refreshments
Hey Jealousy - The Gin Blossoms
Little Miss Can't Be Wrong - The Spin Dr's
Good - Better Than Ezra
Creep - Radiohead
Interstate Love Song - STP
Comedown - Bush
Saving Grace - Tom Petty
Hemorrhage - Fuel
Santa Monica - Everclear
Low - Cracker
Mekong - The Refreshments
Crossraods - Cream/John Mayer

Set 2
Are you Gonna Be My Girl - Jet
Ain't No REst for the Wicked - Cage the Elephant
Bitch - Meredith Brooks
Bring Me Some Water - Melissa Ethridge
Mary Jane's Last Dance - Tom Petty
3 AM - Matchbox 20
Jeremy - Pearl Jam
Kryptonite - 3 Doors Down
Harder to Breathe - Maroon 5
If You Could Only See - Tonic
You Wreck Me - Tom Petty
Say It Ain't So - Weezer
Strage Face of Love - Tito and Tarantula

Set 3
You Oughta Know - Alannis
Inside Out - Eve 6
Next 2 You - Buckcherry
Hard to Handle - The Black Crowes
Give Me One Reason - Tracy Chapman
Santeria - Sublime
When I'm Gone - 3 Doors Down
Just a Girl - No Doubt
Blister in the Sun - The Violent Femmes
Smooth Criminal - Alien Ant Farm
Peaches - POTUS
7 Nation Army - The White Stripes
No One Knows - Queens of the Stone Age

Set 4
The Middle - Jimmy Eat World
My Own Worst Enemy - LIT
Flagpole Sitta -
Dammit - Blink 182
Ruby Soho - Rancid
Hitchin a Ride - Green Day
(S)He Hates Me -
Machine Head - Bush
Cumbersome - Seven Mary Three
Possum Kingdom - Toadies
Breed - Nirvana
Killing In The Name - Rage
Sober - Tool

[Vito Corleone]

 

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but I keep asking band leaders on this forum exactly what it is they are "reading" which prompts them to feel the need to change their set list. No one has ever tried to break this down.

 

 

For us, it's about age, gender and as much as it can be determined, cultural preferences. If there are a lot of 20-30 something females in the audience, we're going to play a much different setlist than we would if it's a lot of 40-50 something males.

 

And you can often tell by how people dress and other cues whether they look to be more of a 'rock' crowd than a 'dance' crowd. And if you can't judge them by how they look, you can usually suss that after a few songs.

[wades_keys]

 

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but I keep asking band leaders on this forum exactly what it is they are "reading" which prompts them to feel the need to change their set list. No one has ever tried to break this down.

 

Pretty easy in my view.

 

The guy that shows no situational awareness on stage is the last guy you want to listen to about what "works" and what "doesn't work".

 

Pretty much that simple.

 

Converseley, the guy(s)/gal(s) that ARE in tune with the crowd: the ones getting the shots brought up, the ones getting tips, the ones that talk to the patrons between sets. Those are the ones that know what's up. Pretty simple really.

 

If you're in a band that doesn't have at least one guy pulling that off, you're doomed anyway. Stop staring at your shoes and engage would be my advice. You need at least ONE person with his finger on the pulse.

 

I tell ya man: my eyes opened when I started on that road of actually making eye contact, getting to know people one by one. It's liberating. Do that and you'll know what "works" and what "doesn't", and you'll be fighting stupid dead air from the guys that are in their little bubble up there. Break the bubble.

 

Engage. Play with confidence. The questions you are asking will answer themselves in real time when you do that,. There's no formula, somethign you can concoct beforehand. This is real time {censored}. So: read your audience in real time, react in real time. Keep the beat going, in real time. Engage. Situational awareness.

[SeniorBlues]

Seems to me that the variables that have been discussed are going to be known ahead of time, right? The question wasn't whether set lists should be the same for every gig. More about why you would be unaware of who you're going to play for to the point where you'd have to change things up once you get there.

[wades_keys]

 

Seems to me that the variables that have been discussed are going to be known ahead of time, right? The question wasn't whether set lists should be the same for every gig. More about why you would be unaware of who you're going to play for to the point where you'd have to change things up once you get there.

 

Why ask why? Just be aware and be ready to change it up. Or put your head down and get in a bubble and convince yourself you're in touch.

 

It's whatever. I'm not trying to run your life, the choice is up to to you!

 

Seems to me that the best approach is to be flexible, but I'm in a place where I've got nothing to prove. Do what you want. In fact, I'd rather that other bands suck. Gives me more opportunities. So I ain't dying on a hill to convince anyone to do what's right. Hell, do what's wrong. Stink up the joint. I like to see that. Opportunity.

[kmart]

 

Seems to me that the variables that have been discussed are going to be known ahead of time, right? The question wasn't whether set lists should be the same for every gig. More about why you would be unaware of who you're going to play for to the point where you'd have to change things up once you get there.

 

So you're saying you know what the audience will be comprised of and what they will like/react to for every single show you play...ALL THE TIME?

 

I can assure you: you are in the minority on that, regardless if you're playing bars or privates.