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Need to vent.. the most unprofessional thing in my 10 years in this...

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  • #16
    Damn the Man!!



    *raises fist salute*
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally Posted by MattACaster : *Runs 2 blocks down the street to Guitar Center, grabs detuned Schecter off the wall, plugs into Line6 Spider and proceeds to bring teh brootalz*

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    • #17
      When you let a guy tell you to call him at a certain time, not once, but twice, you have given up all leverage in the situation. At that point, he is likely to treat you like his bitch, which he did. I know how some people in the bar business treat musicians, and there are plenty of people like this jackoff who play the game that somehow they are way more important than you. Your job is to elevate your band, and your demeanor, to a level where you don't let pricks like this fool bend you over.









      Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird 13
      View Post

      I also get a message from the venue's Facebook page, from a guy we'll call "John". John says to call him at 6:30 (on a Friday, when I'm gigging at 9:30 and have to drive and set up, but okay). I call him at 6:30.. his phone is off. Again three more times between 6:30 and 7:30.. no answer. Fine. Play our gig, on break at 12:30, I call him. He answers, but says he's busy and wants me to call tomorrow at noon. Fine. I call tomorrow at noon.. and if you don't know that he doesn't answer, than you haven't been following the story!



      At this point, I'm fairly done with the whole thing. Jenn's moved her party to a competing venue with *Z-BAND* (who is one of her two favorites, with us), and we're all gonna go out there and celebrate her 30th, as well as party with some friends. HOWEVER, I get a message a few days ago from that member of *Y-BAND*, saying that they have Nov. 17th on the schedule, and he wants me to know he wasn't involved in any of the shadiness. I believe him 100 percent, dude's straight up and honest.. and this particular venue loves *Y-BAND*, it makes sense that they'd try to book them if they felt they had a spot. This does tell me all I need to know about the venue's shadiness, however.



      I texted John last night at like 2 AM as I was leaving our gig. "Never got a call from you.. I assume we aren't playing?", knowing the answer, but having yet to actually speak to ANYONE from this venue. He texts me this morning, said he tried to call and it went straight to voicemail (I rarely turn my phone off, but it's possible I suppose). Said we weren't on the schedule for tomorrow and he was trying to contact us for another date. I replied with "So you guys screwed up our last three dates there, that we booked directly with the owner, and that I watched him write down in the book... and then had no band booked for tonight until like a week ago?" No answer back. Whatever.

      .




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      • #18
        I'd say you handled everything as well as you could -- sounds like they were really looking for an excuse to drop the band but didn't have the cajones to step it up, mixed with their poor management style.



        These are the kind of things that have inspired me in the past to step up the game on all aspects of my band to make said person really regret it four months later.
        Music, music, I hear music
        Fitch Drums - The Blog for the Aspiring Non-Professional Drummer

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        • #19
          Actually when you send a personal message to someone, it tells you if its been "seen" or not...and the time, unless someone else is reading theyre messages......






          Quote Originally Posted by kmart
          View Post

          From your description above, it appears our primary modes of communication with this venue is FB and text messages.



          I'm not saying the way the venue treated you is right, but if your default communication medium is something as passive as FB (ie, you send the message but have zero way of knowing it was looked at, much less received)...that may be part of the reason the situations are able to happen as well...




          Jack of all trades....Master of none...

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          • #20






            Quote Originally Posted by tim_7string
            View Post

            Sorry to hear about this happening to you. It does sound like you handled it very professionally, despite being incensed by the situation (as I would be as well).



            Regarding booking and communication, it's still SOP to book by phone or in-person around here in NoDak. I have not ever booked a gig by Facebook, although I'm currently working on our first Facebook booking at the moment (still pending on the response after I told her our fee). I have also never booked one by e-mail. I guess I prefer that because although e-mail and Facebook messages leave a paper trail, I get a better feel for a person over the phone and face-to-face. From one gig I played a few weeks back, some nagging suspicions were confirmed from the tone of their voice and the way they said things (kind of a stickler over the phone, even more so once we met at the gig). I doubt I would have had the same feeling if we had a text-only conversation.




            This forum always reminds me how different it is in different places and scenes. I think I've booked one gig by phone in the last decade, I think around 2004 or so.

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            • #21
              Bottom line: How many people did you bring when you played there? If the answer is "Not too many" you have no leverage with the owners. Did he handle it in an unprofessional way? Yup. He could've been more upfront with you: "Yeah, you guys don't draw well so we're not interested..." but again, it's his business and if you don't draw he'll find someone who will.

              BTW +1 to those who are against communications via Facebook only.

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              • #22
                When you let a guy tell you to call him at a certain time, not once, but twice, you have given up all leverage in the situation. At that point, he is likely to treat you like his bitch, which he did. I know how some people in the bar business treat musicians, and there are plenty of people like this jackoff who play the game that somehow they are way more important than you. Your job is to elevate your band, and your demeanor, to a level where you don't let pricks like this fool bend you over.


                A thousand times yes... I totally agree. What I don't know is what I could have done any differently?

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                • #23
                  So give the business 10 more years and unfortunately you'll probably run into something to top this.
                  Don Boomer

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                  • #24
                    When he asked you to call him at 6:30 and you did, you could have just left a message and not called him three more times. When you did that, you gave up any leverage you had. In the message you tell him there is some confusion about the date, and you have another inquiry for the same date so you need to hear from him by X or you'll have to take the other gig. Whichever way it ends up, you have communicated to him that you have other options and aren't going to let him string you along.





                    A thousand times yes... I totally agree. What I don't know is what I could have done any differently?

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                    • #25
                      This strikes a very personal note with me, as I've been on the victim side of double bookings a couple of times in the last two years. I fail to understand exactly how someone can mis-manage a physical calendar. Do they make these same mistakes with booking beer reps on promotions? Do they make booking errors when 'shot-girls' are sent in from the alcohol vendors? I've never seen THOSE dates get screwed up or under-promoted.

                      To share my own two rants (will keep it short):

                      Have a gig booked at a place an hour and a half away. We FedEx'd the posters a little over two weeks in advance, as we did with any place not in the immediate vicinity. Arrive at the venue to set up, there's another band setting up. manager who books isn't there and isn't available. They basically told us they double booked, and to discuss it with the manager on Monday. No apology, no offer for dinner or anything for our wasted 3 hours of driving to and from the venue. We tried to take a professional approach and contact the manager on Monday, who dodged our calls and never called us back. Spineless coward. Never spoke with them again, by their choice.

                      Another place, I booked several months in advance with the girl who said she did all the bookings. Go in to put up posters and they tell me that we aren't booked, aren't in the calendar, and that they booked a solo acoustic act. They tell me one of the managers will call me later. He did. Told me that the girl who booked us wasn't supposed to be booking bands, blah blah... So I tell him that we had been promoting it and a LOT of people had indicated they were coming.. and that we would bring a lot more people than an unknown solo act (which was true, it was a guy fresh out of the garage). I told him to do the right thing an honor the booking, as we made it well in advance and that it was too late for us to book elsewhere, so it's lost revenue. He said he talk to the general manager and call me back. He never called back. We cancelled the event and sent out facebook messages. This was on Tuesday before the gig. Come Saturday night, my bandmate gets a call at 9PM saying that we're on the marquee as the band that night. Then a few friends text us saying that they were there, where were we? Apparently they saw our name on the marquee earlier in the week and came out to see us (without checking our web site or FB page). We call the manager and he says he left me a message saying that we were booked. I never got a call, missed call, or message. what a mess. Now they won't book us cause they think we screwed them. Idiots can't realize that it was their own fault any of that happened.

                      And more recently.. we played a place that offered us $350+the door. We hesitantly accepted the offer, but originally wanted $600, because it was an event- Well, the place was packed and we retained 90%+ of the crowd right up to 2am. We knew the guy working the door (and paid him by agreeing to buy his drinks .. $50 roughly), he told us they made over $300 at the door, yet- we only got $410 for the night. Got told to deal with it (don't remember the exact words, but that was the sentiment) when we questioned the fuzzy math. Told them next time we play there, it will be accompanied by a signed, enforceable contract. Probably won't ever play there again.
                      All Epihpone LP, SG, Dot, Batwing
                      Blackstar Stage-100 Head, 2x12 Blackstar Cab
                      Marshall 4x10 Cab
                      various pedals and FX

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                      • #26
                        And more recently.. we played a place that offered us $350+the door. We hesitantly accepted the offer, but originally wanted $600, because it was an event- Well, the place was packed and we retained 90%+ of the crowd right up to 2am. We knew the guy working the door (and paid him by agreeing to buy his drinks .. $50 roughly), he told us they made over $300 at the door, yet- we only got $410 for the night. Got told to deal with it (don't remember the exact words, but that was the sentiment) when we questioned the fuzzy math. Told them next time we play there, it will be accompanied by a signed, enforceable contract. Probably won't ever play there again.


                        Sorry to hear this, been my experience if they say you get part of the cover charge, might as well bend over, about all your going to get out of the deal. Signed contract is a different deal but every show I've done that promised that it never happened in my personal experience.

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                        • #27
                          Have a gig booked at a place an hour and a half away. We FedEx'd the posters a little over two weeks in advance, as we did with any place not in the immediate vicinity. Arrive at the venue to set up, there's another band setting up. manager who books isn't there and isn't available. They basically told us they double booked, and to discuss it with the manager on Monday. No apology, no offer for dinner or anything for our wasted 3 hours of driving to and from the venue. We tried to take a professional approach and contact the manager on Monday, who dodged our calls and never called us back. Spineless coward. Never spoke with them again, by their choice.


                          I prevent this sort of thing by calling the place the day before the gig. When I call, I do it under the guise that I wanted to confirm what time we start at tomorrow night (90 or 9:30?) but I am really calling to see if they forgot we are booked or booked someone else by accident (or on purpose) so that my band and myself don't waste several hours of prep time and on-the-road travel time. If they forgot, sure, I'd be pissed, but at least I'm not pissed showing up at the gig and finding out another band is there (or worse, they weren't expecting us at all). So far, it's working out well. I haven't had a double booking happen yet (but there's always a first time).
                          (This is my Non-Signature.)

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                          • #28
                            been my experience if they say you get part of the cover charge, might as well bend over

                            Unless it's your guy working the door... so if you were "paying" the guy working the door how did the money not go directly to you? Did I miss something?
                            Vocal Gear: Audix OM3xb, Boss VE-20 | Synth Gear: Muse Receptor V1.0 | Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Roland AX7

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                            • #29
                              Do you bring a band wife to your gigs? If so, and you are collecting from the door, sit her by the door guy with one of those clicker things. Assuming she has the temperament required for the task!

                              http://www.amazon.com/GOGO-Counter-Handheld-Clicker-Mechanical/dp/B001KX1VW2
                              Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

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                              • #30
                                Lesson learned: When playing a bar, have everything in writing.
                                - ChadEndorsing Artist: Cave Passive Pedals

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