Members Vito Corleone Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 This may be a question more for the recording or keyboard forums as it's not necessarily a 'live performance' issue, but many current pop songs use the same beat/pattern found on the chorus of this tune. What, most specifically, is giving it that "pulsing" feel in the choruses? Is it a separate keyboard part played on the 'up' beats? Is it something in the way the the drum/rhythm part is constructed? A bit of both? Something more than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted November 23, 2012 Members Share Posted November 23, 2012 Damn that chick is freaking hot. Was that the question? LOL in all seriousness, it's something about the beat, the keys bing in front of the mix instead of behind, and yes, the KB pulsing on the beats of the chorus is a relatively new thing. Dubstep is also very prominent for being prominent on the 1st and 3rd beats, which I'm hearing a bit of in the verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MusicalSchizo Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 I think it's a combination of factors. I think the biggest one is the fact that the bass drum is on every beat and everything else kind of flies around that. THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP. I've noticed that being a big thing in a LOT of current pop songs, to the point that I had to harass our drummer into playing the songs four-on-the-floor because he was cheesing out and not doing it and the songs just sounded completely wrong. They need that THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP throughout to work. So maybe that helps. That's what I'm hearing. Brian V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Yeah, the thump-thump-thump thing has been around for awhile. What this song, and others like it is doing, is giving the chorus a "pulsing" feel by pushing notes on the "and" beats between the kicks during the chorus. I'm just having a hard time hearing exactly how they are doing that. It sounds to me mostly like there's a keyboard patch (very similar to the one holding the chords out through underneath) that playing on those up beats. The fact that they sound so similar makes it hard for me to tell if it's something playing that part, or if they are just pumping a bit of extra volume on it or what, and if there are other instruments accenting those beats. A lot of these recordings start to just sound like a "wash" to my old ears after awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 I'm not hearing anything particularly "new" or "special" here... it's an upbeat pop song, so you build on a basic four-on-the-floor, throw in some fills, and keep the chord progressions moving... somebody could probably throw a bunch of roman numerals at us, but with my songwriter hat on, it's something you just have to feel/hear IMO. Or maybe I'm just missing the "pulse" thing... honestly, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at... if you broke it down and everyone just played their parts "straight" I'm not sure that it would be missing some "magic" somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeeU 22 Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 The four on the floor is part of it, but in addition there is a reverse reverb effect the proceeds every snare hit. It almost sucks you into the snare. How to recreate that live is tricky. You could track the part if you use tracks. We have tried it on a different song and could never get the reverse verb part and the actual snare to sound natural together. The other and more effective option would be to create sound in a DAW which is fairly easy to do and sample into a sample pad of some type. Problem with this method is the drummer can't strike the snare on the 2 and 4 he has to play the snare sample on the 1 &, and 3 &. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Originally Posted by rangefinder Or maybe I'm just missing the "pulse" thing... honestly, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at... if you broke it down and everyone just played their parts "straight" I'm not sure that it would be missing some "magic" somehow. I don't know that it's magic--and maybe I'm just hearing something that I'm mostly imagining (wouldn't be the first time THAT'S happened...) but what I hear is when it gets to the "woah-oh-oh-oh" bit, the rhythm changes up a bit to a feel similar to what disco drummers used to create by opening up the hi-hat on the up beats. I'm not just exactly sure how they are creating that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Originally Posted by SeeU 22 The four on the floor is part of it, but in addition there is a reverse reverb effect the proceeds every snare hit. It almost sucks you into the snare.Neil Maybe THAT'S what I'm hearing! Or at least part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeeU 22 Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 The verses in this song use a similar effect in more of a rock context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_f_c_99 Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Its the reverse snare thing that slides into the snare. I use to play with a drummer that did that pretty well with the high hat when we would do disco stuff, it took him a bit to get the hang of if but once he got it it was pretty slick. A simple thing to do in the studio but without tracks hard to do live unless you got a keyboard player that wants to hit a patch that does that inbetween the beats. The open high hat is probably as close as you can get live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nousername Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Originally Posted by SeeU 22 The verses in this song use a similar effect in more of a rock context. Jesus. Did someone tell the drummer to play "With more energy"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sarricola_Sauce Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Vengeance soundpacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Another thing I've noticed with a lot of songs with this feel: while there's a very strong four-on-the-floor feel, it sounds to me like they're alternating between two different drums....one hits on 1 & 3, while the other hits 2 & 4. (To my ear, it sounds like it's either two differently tuned bass drums, or perhaps the bass drum and a floor tom.) They're similar enough to give the music that driving, repetitive feel, but there's just enough tonal variation to avoid that artificial-sounding monotone vibe you get when you hear the same exact sample played over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jamesp Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 My money's on it being sidechain compression. Apparently I'm doing camping all wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nousername Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Originally Posted by jamesp My money's on it being sidechain compression. Apparently I'm doing camping all wrong. And in a major stroke of irony, the VO needs compression... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Originally Posted by jamesp My money's on it being sidechain compression. Apparently I'm doing camping all wrong. I was going to say most of the modern songs that have that pulse seem to have the {censored} compressed out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 The reverse snare is interesting, I could *not* figure out that out. The "pumping" sound, I too think it may be caused by compression -- I think you could do it live by compressing the heck out of the kick drum in its own channel, and then compressing the whole band, including the compressed kick. You would need a fast attack and pretty fast release on your compressor. What will happen is that the whole band's level will drop so that the kick drum doesn't push into the clip threshold, so it will drop out on the beat and get louder between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldGuitarPlayer Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 It's called 120 bpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Originally Posted by dan88z I was going to say most of the modern songs that have that pulse seem to have the {censored} compressed out of them. Well, they've all got that for sure. Which is one reason why trying to figure just what is going on is so difficult sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pdiddy Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 I agree with the sidechaining theory - aka ducking. The kick is sent to enable a compressor or limiter attached to other elements in the mix so they are reduce during the kick attack then released to full volume on the off beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 24, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Reverse snare and compression both sound like interesting theories. Yeah, I thought this might be more a question for the recording forum. I'm not particularly interested in trying to figure out how to recreate it live (unless it were very simple to do) nor do I think it's necessary. Nor am I even considering learning this particular song. I just heard this one on the radio yesterday morning and was wondering "how the {censored} are they doing that?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 I think the compression thing is replicable live, you need at least two compressors, one can be pretty simple like the one in the new Behringer mixers, but the other one will need to be able to set the thresholds. That said, compressing live music maybe wind up sounding very fatiguing to the listener. You would certainly want to pull down the mains a bit for any tunes you are compressing, because it will sound louder.. but that could make the music not reach as far if you are playing in a big hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted November 24, 2012 Members Share Posted November 24, 2012 Originally Posted by MusicalSchizo I think it's a combination of factors. I think the biggest one is the fact that the bass drum is on every beat and everything else kind of flies around that. THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP. I've noticed that being a big thing in a LOT of current pop songs, to the point that I had to harass our drummer into playing the songs four-on-the-floor because he was cheesing out and not doing it and the songs just sounded completely wrong. They need that THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP throughout to work. So maybe that helps. That's what I'm hearing.Brian V. Yes, me too. Originally Posted by guido61 Yeah, the thump-thump-thump thing has been around for awhile. What this song, and others like it is doing, is giving the chorus a "pulsing" feel by pushing notes on the "and" beats between the kicks during the chorus..... Originally Posted by b_f_c_99 Its the reverse snare thing that slides into the snare...... I think there are some handclaps (or a patch that SOUNDS like handclaps) on the chorus as well, that hit on the downbeat after the reverse reverb sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_f_c_99 Posted November 25, 2012 Members Share Posted November 25, 2012 Another thing that is done in the studio is you aren't hearing 1 drum track ESPECIALLY the snare, almost all modern pop is layers of drums and virtually all of them are programmed. Example, I'll track up a song using something simple like EZ drummer or Superior drummer. I'll then copy that MIDI info to another track and drop a layer of Nepheton or some other TS-9 or early drum machine, then mix those together, usually making the TS9 a bit louder in the kick. Pull out most of the real sounding high hat and your start getting close. THEN layer in another snare sample or maybe some cheesy sounding thing from M Audio or dropzone. Jerk out most of the 'room' reverb and now you're cookin'. But wait theres more, add some super low end thud with the 4 on the floor kick, not a bunch just enough to make you say Lady Gaga BOOM, BOOM. Next take your snare hits on the chorus (you can do this the whole song but it gets annoying) new set of tracks for this, and every other hit either do a reverse snare slide in, or add a really subtle clap, or BOTH. Now we're grooving pretty good but not there yet. There are some pretty slick sound modules that actually do what David originally asked about, PULSE along with the beat like bew bew bew bew most synth vst's have them. Slide one of those onto another set of tracks and mix it in really low, almost where you don't hear it at all. Figure 5-6 midi tracks just for drums. Thats the basics, it can be alot of fun to 'produce' music like this, but its a little ridiculous as well. And this is why famous bands, DJ's ect all have to run tracks if they want to be even close to the recorded sound. Frankly I find acts like P!NK and some of the Rhianna I've seen live to be much more enjoyable when they just play instruments and create a live band sound, not really go after the recorded sound. Its different, I've heard the recording, if I wanted that live I'd just yell at them to play the CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LittleWiggler Posted November 25, 2012 Members Share Posted November 25, 2012 Originally Posted by jamesp My money's on it being sidechain compression. Yup - side chaining is big in pop stuff right now. I have had to track lines like that because trying to do it live is 'interesting'.Basically you take the entire synth submix and sidechain it off of the kick drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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