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  • Quote Originally Posted by toddkuen
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    Obviously "Obama phones" benefit the carriers, etc. at what I am sure special "government" rates.




    You know those "Obama phones" came from Ronald Reagan, don't you? (And then the program was expanded upon under the Clinton and GWBush administrations. Obama had nothing to do with it.)



    http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp



    See, this is the stuff that simultaneously both irks me and cracks me up. People like you and Timkeys so desperately want to believe that Obama is responsible for everything you think is wrong with the government that all somebody has to do is send out an email talking about "Obamaphones" and you just simply HAVE to believe it. Such an easy target for the people selling this crap it's embarassing. You're like a teenage girl lapping up the latest Justin Bieber single and thinking it's the greatest song ever written.








    You're changing the argument again.



    I'm not changing any argument. I'm simply responding to the incorrect cannards you haphazardly toss out as part of your regular conversation.








    TIMKEYS started with the argument Obama is spending disproportionally more (trillions) than in the past - irrespective of "automatic increases" tied to entitlements.



    It's not just increases tied to "entitlements". The whole budget operates in that manner. Putting it all on Obama in the manner TIMKEYS does is just political nonsense. I was simply calling him out on it.



    ______________

    Comment








    • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
      View Post

      ...







      These charts are hilarious.



      "Savings" relative to exactly what? Letting people die in more terrorist attacks?



      Then there's the "Medicare drug benefit" - but wait, I don't see "ObamaCare" listed on the right side - oh, I forgot, that's doesn't kick in until "later."



      And there's the cost of Obama's "Stimulus Plan" listed under "Bush"



      Given this level of argument and understanding all I can do is leave you with this...



      Just-Got-Lucky
      ----------------
      My blogs: http://lwgat.blogspot.com/
      My Music: http://www.fall-to-earth.com

      Comment








      • Quote Originally Posted by toddkuen
        View Post

        These charts are hilarious.



        "Savings" relative to exactly what? Letting people die in more terrorist attacks?




        Yes. Let's increase defense spending as much as possible. So we can save lives and all....



        Seriously? You REALLY believe that there would be tens or hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans dead due to terrorist attacks if not for trillions spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?








        Then there's the "Medicare drug benefit" -



        Yeah, that was a pretty big expenditure that wasn't paid for. And continues to rise every year. Still without being paid for. What's so hilarious about that?








        but wait, I don't see "ObamaCare" listed on the right side - oh, I forgot, that's doesn't kick in until "later."



        Oh, I see. Is that way you keep the books? You not only want to charge Obama with all the spending he didn't authorize that accumulated under his watch, but for all that in the future that doesn't accumulate under his watch (or at least hasn't yet) or may not even at all? No wonder your math is so messed up.








        And there's the cost of Obama's "Stimulus Plan" listed under "Bush"



        No, it's not. Obama's stimulus plan is listed under Obama. Bush's stimulus plans are listed under Bush. Different plans. The Economic Stimulus Plan of 2008 was passed in February 2008, a full year before Obama took office.



        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economi...us_Act_of_2008








        Given this level of argument and understanding



        Again, turn off the radio and stop believing nonsense like "Obamaphones." Once more people can do that, maybe we can actually get something meaningful done in this country regarding the deficit and debt.
        ______________

        Comment








        • Quote Originally Posted by chemikool
          View Post

          Bored on Saturday...trolling HC...



          So the guys in CA and NY (huge liberal places) are arguing with the TX guys (huge republican place) and they aren't seeing eye to eye? Say it isn't so!!!



          --My question for the "democratic-leaning" people = At what point do we worry about the debt, and how the debt affects our future?

          --My question for the "republican-leaning" people = At what point do we acknowledge that the US has one of, if not the LOWEST tax rates in the world?



          And finally, my question for all === who THE EFF do I get to be mad at for the state of our great nation? My own mother doesn't have an answer. The boomer generation has screwed it up for everyone, and they aren't taking the blame for it. I didn't vote myself into this crap. I wasn't eligible to vote until 1990, but I'll have to clean up the mess, and deal with repercussions regardless of who caused it.



          Who do I get to be mad at? Don't you DARE say Dem or Rep...

          ...




          You shouldn't be worried about getting "mad." Its your generation or the next that will have to do something about it.



          To do that you will need to learn as much as you can about what's actually going on in the US and world- which has nothing per se to do with DEM or REP.



          When I was young I was taught to think for myself and to do my own research. That was to a large degree lost on your generation which instead was given information in terms of "sound bites."



          Learn what you can on your own - learn to use Google the right way, study, read books, question authority, and don't be afraid to get out there and talk to others (whether they agree or disagree with you). Join forums and post, don't be afraid to take a beating, learn from the results...



          No one else will do it.



          There's a story I read to my kids about a Grandpa and a kid walking in the woods. They see an old wagon sunk in the muck up to its axles in the middle of a swamp.



          The kid says "Grandpa, how'd that wagon get stuck like that?"



          Grandpa, shaking his head, says "well, son, it took a lot of work..."



          The boomers have to a large degree frittered away and/or ruined your future.



          You need to figure out how to take it back.



          Don't be afraid to throw them and their ideas over the side in the process.



          Follow my blog link at the bottom of my post for some bread crumbs...
          Just-Got-Lucky
          ----------------
          My blogs: http://lwgat.blogspot.com/
          My Music: http://www.fall-to-earth.com

          Comment


          • I've enjoyed reading this. Good back and forth with alot of interesting information and facts and resources without the usual ad hominem attacks.



            Bravo boys.

            Comment


            • guido pwning the competition tho :P
              Epihpone LP and Dot.
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              • Quote Originally Posted by guido61
                View Post

                Yes. Let's increase defense spending as much as possible. So we can save lives and all....



                Seriously? You REALLY believe that there would be tens or hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans dead due to terrorist attacks if not for trillions spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?




                Last I checked US presidents "... do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."



                So what would you have done? Nothing?



                Or perhaps assign a dollar value to attacks? Okay guys, sorry, its too expensive to watch these dams (or power lines, or airplanes, or whatever), your on your own...



                The government needs to supply health care (ObamaCare), Social Security and food stamps but not protection?



                Protection is what the president is required to do for his people, he swears an oath. Not the other stuff.



                What you say always sounds wonderful until you think it through to its logical conclusion.



                Then not so much.
                Just-Got-Lucky
                ----------------
                My blogs: http://lwgat.blogspot.com/
                My Music: http://www.fall-to-earth.com

                Comment


                • toddkuen,

                  I'd say there's a strong difference between protection and aggression.. much of what I've seen in my adult life falls under the latter. The irony is that we do very little to protect the physical country, with exception to abstract notions abroad.
                  Epihpone LP and Dot.
                  Fender American Strat HSS
                  (Loaner) Viking Pillager 60w combo (best amp in the friggin world!)
                  Blackstar Stage-100 Head, 2x12 Blackstar Cab
                  Marshall 4x10 Cab
                  Pedals, pedals, and more pedals. Favs include Strymon Mobius, MXR Super Badass, Digitech Supernatural Reverb, Xotic BB, MXR Carbon Copy.-

                  Comment








                  • Quote Originally Posted by Kramerguy
                    View Post

                    toddkuen,

                    I'd say there's a strong difference between protection and aggression.. much of what I've seen in my adult life falls under the latter. The irony is that we do very little to protect the physical country, with exception to abstract notions abroad.




                    Exactly, we go bomb the **************** out of the rest of the world because we can not because we are under attack.

                    Comment








                    • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
                      View Post

                      Exactly, we go bomb the **************** out of the rest of the world because we can not because we are under attack.




                      What about the U.S. retaliation to 9.11? Do you not consider that an attack?

                      Comment


                      • Again, no one answers the question: What would you have done given you've SWORN to protect and uphold the Constitution?



                        Many people thought the US entering WWII was "aggression" as well.



                        Fewer (2,400) Americans died at Pearl Harbor than the 3,000 who died on 9/11.
                        Just-Got-Lucky
                        ----------------
                        My blogs: http://lwgat.blogspot.com/
                        My Music: http://www.fall-to-earth.com

                        Comment








                        • Quote Originally Posted by nchangin
                          View Post

                          What about the U.S. retaliation to 9.11? Do you not consider that an attack?




                          I don't know we could ask Saddam Hussain. Since Iraq had nothing to do with it but we went to war with them.

                          Comment


                          • Of course, at the time the CIA thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction (Washington Post) and that they would be used on us.
                            Just-Got-Lucky
                            ----------------
                            My blogs: http://lwgat.blogspot.com/
                            My Music: http://www.fall-to-earth.com

                            Comment








                            • Quote Originally Posted by toddkuen
                              View Post

                              Of course, at the time the CIA thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction (Washington Post) and that they would be used on us.






                              Yes, and so the logic was...

                              "Hey! SOMEONE (who is definitely NOT Saddam/Iraq) was responsible for flying two planes into the WTC, so let's go attack Saddam/Iraq in response as an excuse to eliminate those WMDs that we kinda-sorta think are there, even though we know it ultimately wasn't him/them, and aren't quite sure about those weapons, either."
                              For cripe's sake, somebody buy that kid a freaking DICTIONARY already!

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by toddkuen
                                View Post

                                Last I checked US presidents "... do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."



                                So what would you have done? Nothing?




                                No one is questioning the Constitutional obligations of the President. What IS in question is what is the most appropriate and effective response to any attack. His oath is to protect the people. That isn't a free-pass to do whatever to whoever at whatever cost all in the name of "protection".



                                So regarding the response to 9/11 I have two points:



                                1) Yes, 9/11 was a horrible tragedy. But is the proper response to a few lost buildings and a few thousand lives really to launch a WWII-scale attack against two soveriegn nations just to hunt down a few rogue terrorists scattered around the world at the cost of billions of dollars each week that is still ongoing over a decade later? We're firing at mosquitos with bazookas.



                                Part of bin Laden's STATED AGENDA was to try and lure us into such an attack and to defeat us by allowing us to spend ourselves into oblivion. His goal may still very well be realized when all is said and done. Yes, we probably should have gone into Afghanistan to "smoke him out" after the Taliban refused to give him up but the hell are we even DOING there now? Does ANYBODY actually know? And Iraq? Yes, great plan to invade a country that didn't harbor Al Qeada and served as a counter-balance to Iran in the name of hunting down terrorists. Brilliant!



                                2) I don't care WHAT plan we agree is best, it needs to be paid for. The idea that we'd launch 2 wars AND cut taxes at the same time was no only absurd, but unprecedented. But you wanna talk about "free stuff"? How about offering the people of the US "free" protection? What a deal! We'll launch two massive wars and your kids won't be drafted to fight it, you won't be taxed to pay for it, you won't be asked to buy war bonds or have your gas rationed or even be asked to do a tire drive! All YOU have to do is, at most, put a Yellow Ribbon sticker in the window of your gas-guzzling SUV and maybe go on the internet and brag about how much more patriotic you are and how much more you Support The Troops than the next guy! A win/win plan for everyone! (Except the evil terrorists, of course.) Go America!!



                                And then when the country ends up with massive debt 10 years later, you can just forget all about the spending that actually got us there and instead blame the unwashed masses who voted themselves all sorts of Free Stuff! No! It's not those new wars that cost a couple of billion a week that have run up the debt! It's that damned Food Stamps program that's been in place for 40 years....
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