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  • #16






    Quote Originally Posted by wades_keys
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    So ya never know. Call it artistic license. I'm not opposed to that. The Crue reference fits in that category too I think. Just sounds better: simpler. Easier to understand. And still sensible.




    I disagree. I don't think it was a purposeful change. I think it was simply Vince Neil hearing the words wrong and singing what he thought they were. Because no, the new line isn't better and it isn't sensible. If anything, it just dumbs down the song. But it IS probably what most people thought the words were.
    _________________________________________________
    Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

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    • #17






      Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
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      Well sometimes your ears are wrong too. In the rock band i play with we have been doing La Grange by ZZ Top. I first sang that song about 30 years ago when you had to try and pick the words by dropping the needle onto the album. Anyway the guitar player got the words off the internet and I Was singing at least apart of 3 lines wrong.




      Oh no doubt. There were countless songs we did back then that I KNEW we were singing the wrong words to. But there was no easy way to understand what was being sung or find out what the right words were. Had we ever officially recorded one of those songs, though, I almost certainly would have insisted we call up whoever-it-is-you-gotta-call-up (you have to get the permission to record and release the song anyway) and make sure we had the right words so we wouldn't be forever enshrined on a recording as dumb-asses.



      The most memorable one for me was singing "We're An American Band" and I didn't find out until years later (after looking it up on the internet....) that the line I knew I was singing wrong went "Up all night with Freddie King. I got to tell you, poker is his game."



      The closest I could get it was "Lowell Knight and Freddie King. I got to tell you, Focus even sang."
      _________________________________________________
      Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

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      • #18






        Quote Originally Posted by guido61
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        I disagree. I don't think it was a purposeful change. I think it was simply Vince Neil hearing the words wrong and singing what he thought they were. Because no, the new line isn't better and it isn't sensible. If anything, it just dumbs down the song. But it IS probably what most people thought the words were.




        Why would you think that? They WERE in the studio, with a producer. Recording a cover song intended for airplay. I kinda doubt it went down the way you think.



        Hell, they even brought in Willie Nelson's long time harp player to cover the solo. Can't see Tom Werman letting Vince fly so loose on the track that would become Motley's first top 40 hit. In fact: I'd bet it was Werman's idea to change the words up. That's kind of what producers do, ya know.



        I disagree with your take too. The original line is a jumbled mess. Looks good on paper, doesn't come off so well vocally. Dumbing down? Yeah maybe but I still think the meaning comes across and it's easier to understand too. I don't interpret it the same way you do either. "not fooling around with" can mean you've got "nothing to do with": that's the way I've always understood it.
        Kickin' it in the sticks...

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        • #19






          Quote Originally Posted by wades_keys
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          Why would you think that? They WERE in the studio, with a producer. Recording a cover song intended for airplay. I kinda doubt it went down the way you think.



          Hell, they even brought in Willie Nelson's long time harp player to cover the solo. Can't see Tom Werman letting Vince fly so loose on the track that would become Motley's first top 40 hit. In fact: I'd bet it was Werman's idea to change the words up. That's kind of what producers do, ya know.




          I wasn't there. I don't know anything for CERTAIN about what went down any more than you do. But I THINK A) they probably didn't really give a **************** if they got the words to a tag-line at the end of the song right or not. B) probably thought it WAS right.



          And since the new line is dumb and doesn't really make sense with the lyrics of the song (using the original line, the singer acknowledges that he knows he's breaking the rules and is doing so anyway. Using the new line, the singer is saying he ISN'T breaking the rules after just singing for the last 3 minutes that he was???? Huh??) that is enough to make me believe they didn't know and/or didn't care. Because only a complete dumb-ass would PURPOSELY change the lyric? For WHAT purpose?



          Then again, we ARE talking about Motley Crue, so maybe you're right and they DID do a dumbass thing on purpose.
          _________________________________________________
          Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

          Comment


          • #20
            So you would have me believe that Tom Werman, in spite of bringing in a top notch harp player, sat back and let Vince change the words around in a stupid way?



            That don't don't hunt Guido, but whatever.
            Kickin' it in the sticks...

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            • #21
              So you would have me believe that Tom Werman, in spite of bringing in a top notch harp player, sat back and let Vince change the words around in a stupid way?


              No, I'm saying they probably didn't notice it was wrong and/or didn't care.

              What else better explains the fact that they DID change them around in a stupid way? They changed them in a stupid way on PURPOSE? Talk about dogs that don't hunt!
              _________________________________________________
              Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

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              • #22
                Those sites exist only to get advertising income. I suspect that they deliberately alter the lyrics in order to avoid copyright infringement.
                "There is no best in music."
                -- Neil Young, 1987

                My music pages

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                • #23
                  No, I'm saying they probably didn't notice it was wrong and/or didn't care.

                  What else better explains the fact that they DID change them around in a stupid way? They changed them in a stupid way on PURPOSE? Talk about dogs that don't hunt!

                  All I got to say is: scoreboard. That song hit pay dirt for Motley Crue. Even had a movie tie in. And a big production video to boot. C'mon man, guys like Tom Werman didn't make their bones by not noticing what the guy in the booth is singing.
                  Kickin' it in the sticks...

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                  • #24
                    All I got to say is: scoreboard. That song hit pay dirt for Motley Crue. Even had a movie tie in. And a big production video to boot. C'mon man, guys like Tom Werman didn't make their bones by not noticing what the guy in the booth is singing.


                    Obviously the lyric change didn't affect the popularity of the track. Since most of their fans were probably just vaguely familiar with the original at best, how would they even know it was changed!

                    Maybe the wonderful, awesome, God-like Tom Werman knew they were changed or maybe he didn't. Who knows? Who cares? Maybe he's so smart he knew it wouldn't matter to the success of the record. When did I ever say it would have? Maybe he didn't notice at all. Maybe he noticed after the fact but didn't think it a big enough deal to go back and fix. Maybe he noticed it and liked it. Who knows? Who cares? Certainly it didn't ADD to the success of the record, so saying it didn't HURT it is kinda dumb. Obviously a small lyric change isn't going to affect the success of most ANY record.

                    All I said is it's a dumb lyric change and it bothers ME. If it doesn't bother you or Tom Werman, so what? Man...you can sure make a big deal out of nothing sometimes, Wades.
                    _________________________________________________
                    Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I'm not the one resorting to name calling ("wonderful, awesome, God like"). Just playin the odds the way I see em. Hell, why even have a producer if you're just gonna go in the booth and make **************** up as you go along? And why bring Willie's harp player into the mix. But like I said: whatever. Gotta go.
                      Kickin' it in the sticks...

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                      • #26
                        I'm not the one resorting to name calling ("wonderful, awesome, God like"). Just playin the odds the way I see em. Hell, why even have a producer if you're just gonna go in the booth and make **************** up as you go along? And why bring Willie's harp player into the mix. But like I said: whatever. Gotta go.


                        Not calling anyone names. Just shootin' down your obvious belief that just because someone has the success of Tom Werman that they are immune from mistakes or might simply just not see something to be important that other people might. It's not a big deal.

                        Just sayin' that it's an (what always seemed to me to be) obvious error that always bugged the **************** out of me. I may be the only person in the world who ever noticed or cared. So what? But the first time I heard it my thought was "****************, he just sang what he THOUGHT that lyric was without really knowing it", and my opinion on that has never changed.

                        Bugged me probably because I sang the stupid song a lot back in the day. So, just for laughs, here's me from many years ago, doing my best Vince Neil impersonation---sloppy as hell, and way too fast---but singing the CORRECT lyric at the end of the song!

                        http://www.fileswap.com/dl/6Oz8wNQWZ/Little_Sister_-_Smokin'_In_The_Boys'_Room.mp3.html
                        _________________________________________________
                        Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Here's a good interview with Tom Werman on his production style. He was pretty hands on in the studio, suggesting arrangement and such. Had a huge run of success in the 70's and 80's; definitely one of the better hard rock producers of the time.

                          http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/tom_werman_the_rule_is_sign_hit_acts_or_lose_your_ job.html?no_takeover

                          Not too shabby David! You do/did sound a lot like Vince; More than Vince does these days.
                          Kickin' it in the sticks...

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                          • #28
                            Here's a good interview with Tom Werman on his production style. He was pretty hands on in the studio, suggesting arrangement and such. Had a huge run of success in the 70's and 80's; definitely one of the better hard rock producers of the time.


                            Well, that settles it then. He must be completely incapable of ever missing a small lyric change or of not caring about one that guido61 cares about.
                            _________________________________________________
                            Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Well, that settles it then. He must be completely incapable of ever missing a small lyric change or of not caring about one that guido61 cares about.

                              I'll go with that. After all, that's what producers DO. Hell, even the rinky dink producer I worked with a while back heard things in the mix that the rest of us didn't, ringing on the snare for example. So yeah....I'd expect a producer of the caliber of Mr. Werman to be paying attention to obvious details such as choice of lyrics.
                              Kickin' it in the sticks...

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                              • #30
                                I'll go with that. After all, that's what producers DO.


                                If that were the case, then there would never be ANY errors on records and we all know that's not true.

                                But I only see 3 things that could possibly account for the changed lyric:

                                1) Werman didn't notice.

                                2) He noticed but didn't care.

                                3) He noticed and liked it or even instructed Neil to change the lyric.

                                I say it can only be #1 or #2 because #3 makes no sense to me because the new lyric is, at best, pointless and at worst, dumb. There's no REASON to change it on purpose so, in my mind it can only be #1 or #2. Neither of which make Werman an idiot or a bad producer. It's just something that happened while recording an album many years ago.

                                YMMV, but that's my opinion.

                                But whatever. Quite possibly the dumbest dragged-out argument you and I have ever had, and that's saying quite a bit.
                                _________________________________________________
                                Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

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