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long distance over night gigs.....how to price?


race81

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We have been asked to do a gig that is a 3hr drive for us each way. I know a overnight stay is a hand here, gas money, food money, and even extra cash for the gig itself......but how do you all price these jobs....i just dont want to leave anything out and come up on the short stick. Four in the band, one truck with trailer, one car.

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It depends on where you stay, how you divide the money, what percentage of your money you want to devote to expenses (all of it? or just part of it?), and so on.

If it costs $80/night to stay in a hotel for two beds, that's $160 for four people unless you guys sleep in the same bed (lol). Depending on how you calculate gas mileage with the truck/trailer combo (12-15 mpg perhaps?), for 180 miles one way, at the current $3.19/gallon in town, that would be around $38.28 - 47.85 one way, for just the truck/trailer and just for the cost of gasoline (diesel would be much higher).

Of course, that isn't actual mileage, which is currently calculated as $0.555/mile for business purposes. So, that would be $99.90 one way for one vehicle. Round trip with both vehicles, you're looking at around $400, more if you drive around in town a bit (which you will, for the bar and the hotel). I might be wrong, though. I think the IRS only lets you take the deduction of mileage for the trip TO the gig, not for the way back. So, that would drop it to $200 instead.

Let's look at it this way:

$400 - Two vehicles, 360 miles each (round trip instead of traveling to the gig ONLY)
$160 - Two hotel rooms, two people per room, one night's lodging
$100 - Four guys, three meals a day at around $8+/meal
$100 - Four guys, money for drinks (conservative)

That equals $760. I would save another $240 for 'whatever' emergency expenses, so I would charge $1000. If that isn't possible, $800 would be the lowest I would go, otherwise, you're going into the red.

Good luck! smile.gif

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What about the band pay? gotta add that in too!

Quote Originally Posted by tim_7string View Post
It depends on where you stay, how you divide the money, what percentage of your money you want to devote to expenses (all of it? or just part of it?), and so on.

If it costs $80/night to stay in a hotel for two beds, that's $160 for four people unless you guys sleep in the same bed (lol). Depending on how you calculate gas mileage with the truck/trailer combo (12-15 mpg perhaps?), for 180 miles one way, at the current $3.19/gallon in town, that would be around $38.28 - 47.85 one way, for just the truck/trailer and just for the cost of gasoline (diesel would be much higher).

Of course, that isn't actual mileage, which is currently calculated as $0.555/mile for business purposes. So, that would be $99.90 one way for one vehicle. Round trip with both vehicles, you're looking at around $400, more if you drive around in town a bit (which you will, for the bar and the hotel). I might be wrong, though. I think the IRS only lets you take the deduction of mileage for the trip TO the gig, not for the way back. So, that would drop it to $200 instead.

Let's look at it this way:

$400 - Two vehicles, 360 miles each (round trip instead of traveling to the gig ONLY)
$160 - Two hotel rooms, two people per room, one night's lodging
$100 - Four guys, three meals a day at around $8+/meal
$100 - Four guys, money for drinks (conservative)

That equals $760. I would save another $240 for 'whatever' emergency expenses, so I would charge $1000. If that isn't possible, $800 would be the lowest I would go, otherwise, you're going into the red.

Good luck! smile.gif
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Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS View Post
Add rooms , travel expenses plus performance fee. I dont figure food since you have to eat anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_diem

It costs me less to eat at home than to eat out.

. . . but all of this is moot if the person or group hiring you doesn't have an understanding or appreciation of travel costs. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.
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Quote Originally Posted by race81

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We have been asked to do a gig that is a 3hr drive for us each way. I know a overnight stay is a hand here, gas money, food money, and even extra cash for the gig itself......but how do you all price these jobs....i just dont want to leave anything out and come up on the short stick. Four in the band, one truck with trailer, one car.

 

It's great to calculate your mileage, meals, etc., but don't forget to remember the value of your TIME! Yes, you are going to get paid for the gig, but the six hours you are sitting in the car is "free" time unless you are getting paid for it. Although, this time can be compensated by the cost of the performance. Our band hobby band won't play anywhere for less than $1,500.00. Good luck!
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Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_diem

It costs me less to eat at home than to eat out.

. . . but all of this is moot if the person or group hiring you doesn't have an understanding or appreciation of travel costs. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

You have a band that is doing their first out of towner. I think just getting the travel and rooms is going to be more than enough up charge for the first outing. If they want a little extra pad the performance fee a touch. Its not like they are the rolling stones. It would be very easy to price themselves out of the gig if they get all nit picky. Its an over night gig. Odds are they can get fed by the venue or by the person thowing the deal if its a pvt party. You have to look at it from the customers point of view as well as your own. I tend to view food as a personal issue on the road, except for maybe somthing to eat at the venue the night of the show. Thats just me.
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Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_diem

It costs me less to eat at home than to eat out.

. . . but all of this is moot if the person or group hiring you doesn't have an understanding or appreciation of travel costs. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.
Then up your personal performance fee and bury the cost.
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Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS View Post
Then up your personal performance fee and bury the cost.
I'm not saying they should itemize everything for the client, but I am assuming that the client will have to have some understanding of the costs involved if they're going to pay the fee.

Or not. As you say, just give them a number that covers everything and maybe they'll go for it.

. . . and no, I'm not driving three hours after a gig.

Nor would I play for free.
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Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues View Post
I'm not saying they should itemize everything for the client, but I am assuming that the client will have to have some understanding of the costs involved if they're going to pay the fee.

Or not. As you say, just give them a number that covers everything and maybe they'll go for it.

. . . and no, I'm not driving three hours after a gig.

Nor would I play for free.
Nor would I.
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Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues View Post
I'm not saying they should itemize everything for the client, but I am assuming that the client will have to have some understanding of the costs involved if they're going to pay the fee.

Or not. As you say, just give them a number that covers everything and maybe they'll go for it.

. . . and no, I'm not driving three hours after a gig.

Nor would I play for free.

It gets tricky on out of town gigs for bands that are just breaking into the market. Its really easy to price yourself out of the market. I think you have to be willing to eat a few expenses in the beginning to establish yourself as a band that travels and not expect to recover every dime. Getting established as a travel band takes some time and some investment by the band. I dont think you should lose money but, I do think you may not make a big kill on the first road shows you do. I know that how it worked with us. What did we gain by not dingin them for every dime on the first shows? We have a track record of a band that can get on an airline and pull off a big show all the way across the country. Now we do pretty well when we go out of town in a big way. If money was skinny ,, i would just red eye it home. Three hours isnt that big a deal, when you still have a good gig juice going.
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Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS

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It gets tricky on out of town gigs for bands that are just breaking into the market. Its really easy to price yourself out of the market. I think you have to be willing to eat a few expenses in the beginning to establish yourself as a band that travels and not expect to recover every dime. Getting established as a travel band takes some time and some investment by the band. I dont think you should lose money but, I do think you may not make a big kill on the first road shows you do. I know that how it worked with us. What did we gain by not dingin them for every dime on the first shows? We have a track record of a band that can get on an airline and pull off a big show all the way across the country. Now we do pretty well when we go out of town in a big way. If money was skinny ,, i would just red eye it home. Three hours isnt that big a deal, when you still have a good gig juice going.

 

C'mon man.. that's the kind of attitude that hinders musicians from looking at things like a business. Unless there is serious exposure (national television or a showcase for legit A&R reps), a personal reason (like sharing the stage with one of your musical influences, or doing a favor for a friend), or financial gain.. why take the gig at all? Why not just book something closer to home that DOES benefit your business?
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Les, I think there's some solid advice above from two different perspectives:

1.) Cover all your expenses, then add profit
2.) This is your first out of towner, so don't price yourself out of the gig

Somewhere between these two is the reality of the situation. Who's the client/venue? Do they care that you're coming from 3 hours away and need to crash somewhere? Are you doing this as a favor/ friend's wedding/ party? There's so many factors that go into this, and I think you just need to be smart about how you address them.

- If this is a relationship that may continue, set a user-friendly but firm precedent: maybe a one-time deal, but next time you'll need more to cover time and expenses.

- Big Deal is a cover band, so "exposure" is a relative term. smile.gif Is it worth it for YOU to do an overnight gig for this? For many bands, this would just be a fun "boys out of town" for the night kind of show where you go play, and then have some drinks at your hotel to get away from the wife. biggrin.gif

- Do you want to play this gig? If not, charge big dollars and hey, maybe they pay for it!

- Understand why it's your band they're asking for and let that be a factor. I'm thinking that someone wants you for a specific function, since you're obviously not going to have a draw 3 hours from home. That normally means you're well-wanted, which normally means the client/ booker is more apt to work with you.

All these are free-balling thoughts, but please let us know more!

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We wouldn't EVER low ball an out of town gig. First timers or not, that is a LOT of work and a LOT of time. If they're not willing to pay a fair rate...and by that I mean a rate that's WORTH IT for you to do the gig....then just don't do it. We price ourselves out of a lot of overnight gigs and we're totally fine with that. If they really want us they're gonna pay big bucks for us to travel...otherwise we're just fine with not doing it and playing another in town gig for half the rate (and half the work).

OP: Add up all your costs, then figure out how much profit you want to make the gig worthwhile, and there's your rate.

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"Profit" seems like a vague term in the band business. Basically you're mostly looking at labor costs, which should include time on stage, rehearsal time, and, especially in this case, travel time. Add the actual costs of the specific gig - gas, motel, food. Equipment costs are usually thought of as part of your basic gig rate, including both personal and band gear.

The point is, there are a lot of guys out there moonlighting in any field who don't understand how to run a business, no matter how small. If, on the other hand, this is all viewed as one big party, then I guess if everyone thinks that way, you could just go for it . . . except it kills your band, and every other band, in the long term.

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Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues

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The point is, there are a lot of guys out there moonlighting in any field who don't understand how to run a business, no matter how small. If, on the other hand, this is all viewed as one big party, then I guess if everyone thinks that way, you could just go for it . . . except it kills your band, and every other band, in the long term.

 

The most true statement anyone's ever posted on these forums!
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All good points......venue is a private birthday party @ a very big lake. There are some very nice clubs in this area, so we were thinking of trying to connect with some of them while down there. There could possibly be more jobs come out of this gig. I know 3 hrs of a drive is not that far for some, but for me the P.A. specialist/roadie/drummer/vocalist...im dead tired after we get done. This would be our first job out of town that required an over night stay IMO. From my figures....and upping the band members pay by a whopping $25 each, it looks to be around $1200.......expenses are making up around half of the total. Heres how I broke it down....

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
band...........................................$60 0
_____________________________________
total $1205

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Quote Originally Posted by race81 View Post
All good points......venue is a private birthday party @ a very big lake. There are some very nice clubs in this area, so we were thinking of trying to connect with some of them while down there. There could possibly be more jobs come out of this gig. I know 3 hrs of a drive is not that far for some, but for me the P.A. specialist/roadie/drummer/vocalist...im dead tired after we get done. This would be our first job out of town that required an over night stay IMO. From my figures....and upping the band members pay by a whopping $25 each, it looks to be around $1200.......expenses are making up around half of the total. Heres how I broke it down....

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
band...........................................$60 0
_____________________________________
total $1205
Based on that, assuming I wasn't extremely close friends with anyone from the party.. I'd quote them $1400 without accommodations, $1200 with. That gives you some room to negotiate if you think the buyer is "almost there", it justifies the extra hotel expense, and it's likely in line with quotes your party would get from an agency to book a cover band.
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How many members in the band? In other words, how many people are there to get paid? Decide how much money each member wants to make to take home from the gig, add expenses, maybe add a little extra $ in case of emergencies, and that's your quote. There's no good reason to drive 3 hours to play a gig on the cheap.

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
pay for 5 musicians........................$1500 Extra for Emergencies.....................$300
TOTAL.......................................$2405

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Quote Originally Posted by New Trail View Post
How many members in the band? In other words, how many people are there to get paid? Decide how much money each member wants to make to take home from the gig, add expenses, maybe add a little extra $ in case of emergencies, and that's your quote. There's no good reason to drive 3 hours to play a gig on the cheap.

fuel for 2 vehicles..........................$200
meals..(lunch/dinner/breakfast)........$180
motel..........................................$22 5
pay for 5 musicians........................$1500 Extra for Emergencies.....................$300
TOTAL.......................................$2405
He said in the first post that there were four of them. And I think $2405 is WAY too high for a one nighter at a private party. Unless the people running it are all highly-paid professionals, I think they are going to balk at that price.

$1200 seems more reasonable to me. I also like Blackbird 13's advice. Make sure they realize that it will cost a lot for accomodations and that you will need to have those in order to make the gig, where driving back right after the gig for three hours is not an option. Trust me, I've done that before and it really sucks.
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4 guys have to drive 6 hours , bring a pa, play the gig, then go to a motel, eat out at least two meals, buy gas, etc. Geez, if that's not worth at least 500.00 a man WTH? OTOH, if the band usually makes 600.00 a gig or less, your probably not going to get 2k or better. But you never know. Why do they want your band? The answer to that question is the answer to how much they will pay.

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C'mon man.. that's the kind of attitude that hinders musicians from looking at things like a business. Unless there is serious exposure (national television or a showcase for legit A&R reps), a personal reason (like sharing the stage with one of your musical influences, or doing a favor for a friend), or financial gain.. why take the gig at all? Why not just book something closer to home that DOES benefit your business?[/QUOT

There are lots of ways to build a business. I know I used to get a lot of {censored} from my fellow flight instructors because I was willing to fly cheap for some chief pilots that I knew in the beginning. They used the same logic. Most of them either flounded along as back of their car flight instructors or left the career. I was the guy that had a job flying a turbo prop. They were too busy pinching the penny to invest their time in their own career. I agree , there has to be a reason to cut some breaks on expenses. I just think that getting out and gigging in your area , and 3 hours is your area is more important than dingin a customer for a few burgers on the drive over there. My theory is one gig typically leads to another, so the more you play the further along you will be in establishing your act.
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