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  • #76






    Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
    View Post

    Well my band plays for crowds outdoors with more than 500 people a few times a year using all active cabs with no problems. I would also venture to guess that my PA weighs less than your outdated gear probably sounds better too.




    well, you are guessing, which you are welcome to do. Passive stuff isn't necessarily outdated. They still make and use it, even at the top levels.
    tlbonehead@yahoo.com
    www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
    -For Sale:
    -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
    -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
    - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
    - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
    - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

    Comment


    • #77






      Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
      View Post

      Well you would have to do alot of digging because I have never seen an active version of a comparable cab weighing 15 pounds more IIRC.




      my digging consisted of the first cab that came to mind since so many folks here use it. And yes, the difference did surprise me a bit.
      tlbonehead@yahoo.com
      www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
      -For Sale:
      -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
      -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
      - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
      - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
      - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

      Comment


      • #78






        Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
        View Post

        Powered = less to plug in? Are your speakers wireless?




        I find the complaints about having to run power to each active cab to be overstated. Everything is different for each band, of course, but most stage setups usually involve dropping power near where every monitor would be anyway. Who isn't running some sort of effects pedal or other electronic device near where their monitor would be these days? The extra time to snap in a power cable in minimal and, in my experience, is more than outweighed by the hassle of dealing with a rack of amps and crossovers.
        _________________________________________________
        Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

        Comment


        • #79
          Well I stand corrected. I still say that much weight difference isn't the norm. Where I live no one uses Yorkville. I have seen one sub in my entire life and it was a Yorkville Pulse that pretty much sucked.

          Comment


          • #80






            Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
            View Post

            for small, simple setups they are great, especially in situations where the users aren't too sound-savvy and don't really have any interest in becoming so.There are certainly many situations where I would recommend a powered setup over passive.




            And I think this is the sort of setup we're talking about for at least 90% of the musicians/bands hanging out here. For all but all the most sound-savvy and/or those using specialized setups for specialized situations, I just really can't think of reason to recommend passives over actives.



            I think the main reason a lot of bands use passives is because they've piece-by-pieced their way into their systems in the first place rather than making sure everything was perfectly matched. Which is one reason why actives are going to be less-prone to failure for such bands.
            _________________________________________________
            Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

            Comment


            • #81






              Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
              View Post

              Well I stand corrected. I still say that much weight difference isn't the norm. Where I live no one uses Yorkville. I have seen one sub in my entire life and it was a Yorkville Pulse that pretty much sucked.




              well, I looked at Carvin's site and their single 18" cab is about 9lbs heavier for the powered versions. And their high-end line, TRx, they only make in passive. Also looked at C-V's 18" sub and there is about a 30lb weight gain for the power amp, unless it is a misprint. But I've held a number of different amp modules from popular cabs and they all weight something, at least noticeably more than 2-3lbs.
              tlbonehead@yahoo.com
              www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
              -For Sale:
              -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
              -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
              - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
              - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
              - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

              Comment


              • #82






                Quote Originally Posted by guido61
                View Post

                And I think this is the sort of setup we're talking about for at least 90% of the musicians/bands hanging out here. For all but all the most sound-savvy and/or those using specialized setups for specialized situations, I just really can't think of reason to recommend passives over actives.



                I think the main reason a lot of bands use passives is because they've piece-by-pieced their way into their systems in the first place rather than making sure everything was perfectly matched. Which is one reason why actives are going to be less-prone to failure for such bands.




                Well, certainly that can be a detriment.
                tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                -For Sale:
                -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                Comment


                • #83






                  Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
                  View Post

                  just looked up one of the more popular small/mid sized subs here, the Yorkie 800 line. The listed weight of the active version is about 21lbs higher.




                  What does the comparable separate amp weigh?



                  Going back to "common sense", the separate amp/speaker/crossover combo would weigh more because the active version would just contain the amp and crossover components without the metal cases the separate ones are built into.
                  _________________________________________________
                  Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                  Comment


                  • #84






                    Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
                    View Post

                    Well, certainly that can be a detriment.




                    It's the one I've seen here expressed most often. Most bands aren't in the position to shell out all the money all at once for a full active system, so they look to buy an amp now and some speakers later. And then often look for reasons to justify why such a system is 'better' while they are at it.
                    _________________________________________________
                    Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                    Comment


                    • #85






                      Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
                      View Post

                      for small, simple setups they are great, especially in situations where the users aren't too sound-savvy and don't really have any interest in becoming so.There are certainly many situations where I would recommend a powered setup over passive.




                      Most bands tend to use what I call a smaller systems. I dont consider a couple mains and a couple subs and three or 4 monitors a big system. Big systems are what you see on full blown festival and concert stages like you would see big major label acts. If you are a band that loads in your own gear and plays pvt events and clubs , its pretty hard to beat powered PA gear unless you have a good deal already invested in a passive system. Its real nice to have the amps matched to the speakers by audio rocket scientists at the factory instead of having to do a do it yourself deal where things may not be ideal. You can get the job doen with either. Starting from scratch , its hard to beat powered gear for a band that handled their own PA and gear.
                      "you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park"

                      Comment


                      • #86






                        Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
                        View Post

                        well, I looked at Carvin's site and their single 18" cab is about 9lbs heavier for the powered versions. And their high-end line, TRx, they only make in passive. Also looked at C-V's 18" sub and there is about a 30lb weight gain for the power amp, unless it is a misprint. But I've held a number of different amp modules from popular cabs and they all weight something, at least noticeably more than 2-3lbs.




                        Not sure what the amp modules weigh but since the powered versions don't have a passive crossover built in they are probably saving some weight there. My shuttle 3.0 bass amp weighs a total of 2.75 pounds. I would guess the power supply is about half that.

                        Comment


                        • #87






                          Quote Originally Posted by guido61
                          View Post

                          It's the one I've seen here expressed most often. Most bands aren't in the position to shell out all the money all at once for a full active system, so they look to buy an amp now and some speakers later. And then often look for reasons to justify why such a system is 'better' while they are at it.




                          OTOH, they assume that since everything is properly matched and fool proof with a matched powered setup, there is nothing to do but hook it up and play thru it. If they have no interest in learning much about sound, that's great. But powered cab's don't do anything for funky rooms or major crowd changes, or a certain frequency taking off on the kick or toms, etc.

                          For the ones using very basic mixer->powered speaker setups, do they have no EQ'ing available for the drums, no reverb for the snare or possibly toms, etc?
                          tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                          www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                          -For Sale:
                          -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                          -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                          - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                          - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                          - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                          Comment


                          • #88






                            Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
                            View Post

                            Not sure what the amp modules weigh but since the powered versions don't have a passive crossover built in they are probably saving some weight there. My shuttle 3.0 bass amp weighs a total of 2.75 pounds. I would guess the power supply is about half that.




                            true but a coil and a couple caps and resisters doesn't weigh much. Maybe 1lb?
                            tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                            www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                            -For Sale:
                            -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                            -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                            - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                            - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                            - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                            Comment


                            • #89






                              Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS
                              View Post

                              Most bands tend to use what I call a smaller systems. I dont consider a couple mains and a couple subs and three or 4 monitors a big system. Big systems are what you see on full blown festival and concert stages like you would see big major label acts. If you are a band that loads in your own gear and plays pvt events and clubs , its pretty hard to beat powered PA gear unless you have a good deal already invested in a passive system. Its real nice to have the amps matched to the speakers by audio rocket scientists at the factory instead of having to do a do it yourself deal where things may not be ideal. You can get the job doen with either. Starting from scratch , its hard to beat powered gear for a band that handled their own PA and gear.




                              dealing with breakdowns sure is easier with passive setups.
                              tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                              www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                              -For Sale:
                              -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                              -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                              - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                              - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                              - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                              Comment


                              • #90






                                Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
                                View Post

                                OTOH, they assume that since everything is properly matched and fool proof with a matched powered setup, there is nothing to do but hook it up and play thru it. If they have no interest in learning much about sound, that's great. But powered cab's don't do anything for funky rooms or major crowd changes, or a certain frequency taking off on the kick or toms, etc.

                                For the ones using very basic mixer->powered speaker setups, do they have no EQ'ing available for the drums, no reverb for the snare or possibly toms, etc?




                                No more or less than they have with a comparable passive system. If you want to put an EQ in the system, it's the same either way, right? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
                                _________________________________________________
                                Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing. --- chord123

                                Comment













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