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long distance over night gigs.....how to price?

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  • long distance over night gigs.....how to price?

    We have been asked to do a gig that is a 3hr drive for us each way. I know a overnight stay is a hand here, gas money, food money, and even extra cash for the gig itself......but how do you all price these jobs....i just dont want to leave anything out and come up on the short stick. Four in the band, one truck with trailer, one car.
    Jack of all trades....Master of none...

  • #2
    It depends on where you stay, how you divide the money, what percentage of your money you want to devote to expenses (all of it? or just part of it?), and so on.



    If it costs $80/night to stay in a hotel for two beds, that's $160 for four people unless you guys sleep in the same bed (lol). Depending on how you calculate gas mileage with the truck/trailer combo (12-15 mpg perhaps?), for 180 miles one way, at the current $3.19/gallon in town, that would be around $38.28 - 47.85 one way, for just the truck/trailer and just for the cost of gasoline (diesel would be much higher).



    Of course, that isn't actual mileage, which is currently calculated as $0.555/mile for business purposes. So, that would be $99.90 one way for one vehicle. Round trip with both vehicles, you're looking at around $400, more if you drive around in town a bit (which you will, for the bar and the hotel). I might be wrong, though. I think the IRS only lets you take the deduction of mileage for the trip TO the gig, not for the way back. So, that would drop it to $200 instead.



    Let's look at it this way:



    $400 - Two vehicles, 360 miles each (round trip instead of traveling to the gig ONLY)

    $160 - Two hotel rooms, two people per room, one night's lodging

    $100 - Four guys, three meals a day at around $8+/meal

    $100 - Four guys, money for drinks (conservative)



    That equals $760. I would save another $240 for 'whatever' emergency expenses, so I would charge $1000. If that isn't possible, $800 would be the lowest I would go, otherwise, you're going into the red.



    Good luck!
    (This is my Non-Signature.)

    Comment


    • #3
      All you did was cover your expenses! Didn't you forget to figure any profit in?

      Comment


      • #4
        What about the band pay? gotta add that in too!






        Quote Originally Posted by tim_7string
        View Post

        It depends on where you stay, how you divide the money, what percentage of your money you want to devote to expenses (all of it? or just part of it?), and so on.



        If it costs $80/night to stay in a hotel for two beds, that's $160 for four people unless you guys sleep in the same bed (lol). Depending on how you calculate gas mileage with the truck/trailer combo (12-15 mpg perhaps?), for 180 miles one way, at the current $3.19/gallon in town, that would be around $38.28 - 47.85 one way, for just the truck/trailer and just for the cost of gasoline (diesel would be much higher).



        Of course, that isn't actual mileage, which is currently calculated as $0.555/mile for business purposes. So, that would be $99.90 one way for one vehicle. Round trip with both vehicles, you're looking at around $400, more if you drive around in town a bit (which you will, for the bar and the hotel). I might be wrong, though. I think the IRS only lets you take the deduction of mileage for the trip TO the gig, not for the way back. So, that would drop it to $200 instead.



        Let's look at it this way:



        $400 - Two vehicles, 360 miles each (round trip instead of traveling to the gig ONLY)

        $160 - Two hotel rooms, two people per room, one night's lodging

        $100 - Four guys, three meals a day at around $8+/meal

        $100 - Four guys, money for drinks (conservative)



        That equals $760. I would save another $240 for 'whatever' emergency expenses, so I would charge $1000. If that isn't possible, $800 would be the lowest I would go, otherwise, you're going into the red.



        Good luck!




        Jack of all trades....Master of none...

        Comment


        • #5
          Add rooms , travel expenses plus performance fee. I dont figure food since you have to eat anyway.
          <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park&quot;</div><br>

          Comment


          • #6






            Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS
            View Post

            Add rooms , travel expenses plus performance fee. I dont figure food since you have to eat anyway.




            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_diem



            It costs me less to eat at home than to eat out.



            . . . but all of this is moot if the person or group hiring you doesn't have an understanding or appreciation of travel costs. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

            Comment


            • #7






              Quote Originally Posted by race81
              View Post

              We have been asked to do a gig that is a 3hr drive for us each way. I know a overnight stay is a hand here, gas money, food money, and even extra cash for the gig itself......but how do you all price these jobs....i just dont want to leave anything out and come up on the short stick. Four in the band, one truck with trailer, one car.




              It's great to calculate your mileage, meals, etc., but don't forget to remember the value of your TIME! Yes, you are going to get paid for the gig, but the six hours you are sitting in the car is "free" time unless you are getting paid for it. Although, this time can be compensated by the cost of the performance. Our band hobby band won't play anywhere for less than $1,500.00. Good luck!
              Everybody is terminally ill.

              Comment


              • #8






                Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
                View Post

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_diem



                It costs me less to eat at home than to eat out.



                . . . but all of this is moot if the person or group hiring you doesn't have an understanding or appreciation of travel costs. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.






                You have a band that is doing their first out of towner. I think just getting the travel and rooms is going to be more than enough up charge for the first outing. If they want a little extra pad the performance fee a touch. Its not like they are the rolling stones. It would be very easy to price themselves out of the gig if they get all nit picky. Its an over night gig. Odds are they can get fed by the venue or by the person thowing the deal if its a pvt party. You have to look at it from the customers point of view as well as your own. I tend to view food as a personal issue on the road, except for maybe somthing to eat at the venue the night of the show. Thats just me.
                <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park&quot;</div><br>

                Comment


                • #9






                  Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
                  View Post

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_diem



                  It costs me less to eat at home than to eat out.



                  . . . but all of this is moot if the person or group hiring you doesn't have an understanding or appreciation of travel costs. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.




                  Then up your personal performance fee and bury the cost.
                  <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park&quot;</div><br>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would drive home if you couldn't get enough to cover the cost of rooms. I'd do that before playing for free after costs.
                    <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="mailto:tlbonehead@yahoo.com">tlbonehead@yaho o.com</a><br />
                    <a href="http://www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy</a><br />
                    -For Sale: <br />
                    -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US<br />
                    -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.<br />
                    - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping<br />
                    - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds &amp; looks good. $250 + shipping. <b>SOLD</b><br />
                    - Crate Palomino V8 - 10&quot; Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)</div>

                    Comment


                    • #11






                      Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS
                      View Post

                      Then up your personal performance fee and bury the cost.




                      I'm not saying they should itemize everything for the client, but I am assuming that the client will have to have some understanding of the costs involved if they're going to pay the fee.



                      Or not. As you say, just give them a number that covers everything and maybe they'll go for it.



                      . . . and no, I'm not driving three hours after a gig.



                      Nor would I play for free.

                      Comment


                      • #12






                        Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
                        View Post

                        I'm not saying they should itemize everything for the client, but I am assuming that the client will have to have some understanding of the costs involved if they're going to pay the fee.



                        Or not. As you say, just give them a number that covers everything and maybe they'll go for it.



                        . . . and no, I'm not driving three hours after a gig.



                        Nor would I play for free.




                        Nor would I.
                        <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="mailto:tlbonehead@yahoo.com">tlbonehead@yaho o.com</a><br />
                        <a href="http://www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy</a><br />
                        -For Sale: <br />
                        -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US<br />
                        -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.<br />
                        - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping<br />
                        - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds &amp; looks good. $250 + shipping. <b>SOLD</b><br />
                        - Crate Palomino V8 - 10&quot; Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)</div>

                        Comment


                        • #13






                          Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
                          View Post

                          I'm not saying they should itemize everything for the client, but I am assuming that the client will have to have some understanding of the costs involved if they're going to pay the fee.



                          Or not. As you say, just give them a number that covers everything and maybe they'll go for it.



                          . . . and no, I'm not driving three hours after a gig.



                          Nor would I play for free.






                          It gets tricky on out of town gigs for bands that are just breaking into the market. Its really easy to price yourself out of the market. I think you have to be willing to eat a few expenses in the beginning to establish yourself as a band that travels and not expect to recover every dime. Getting established as a travel band takes some time and some investment by the band. I dont think you should lose money but, I do think you may not make a big kill on the first road shows you do. I know that how it worked with us. What did we gain by not dingin them for every dime on the first shows? We have a track record of a band that can get on an airline and pull off a big show all the way across the country. Now we do pretty well when we go out of town in a big way. If money was skinny ,, i would just red eye it home. Three hours isnt that big a deal, when you still have a good gig juice going.
                          <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park&quot;</div><br>

                          Comment


                          • #14






                            Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS
                            View Post

                            It gets tricky on out of town gigs for bands that are just breaking into the market. Its really easy to price yourself out of the market. I think you have to be willing to eat a few expenses in the beginning to establish yourself as a band that travels and not expect to recover every dime. Getting established as a travel band takes some time and some investment by the band. I dont think you should lose money but, I do think you may not make a big kill on the first road shows you do. I know that how it worked with us. What did we gain by not dingin them for every dime on the first shows? We have a track record of a band that can get on an airline and pull off a big show all the way across the country. Now we do pretty well when we go out of town in a big way. If money was skinny ,, i would just red eye it home. Three hours isnt that big a deal, when you still have a good gig juice going.




                            C'mon man.. that's the kind of attitude that hinders musicians from looking at things like a business. Unless there is serious exposure (national television or a showcase for legit A&R reps), a personal reason (like sharing the stage with one of your musical influences, or doing a favor for a friend), or financial gain.. why take the gig at all? Why not just book something closer to home that DOES benefit your business?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Les, I think there's some solid advice above from two different perspectives:



                              1.) Cover all your expenses, then add profit

                              2.) This is your first out of towner, so don't price yourself out of the gig



                              Somewhere between these two is the reality of the situation. Who's the client/venue? Do they care that you're coming from 3 hours away and need to crash somewhere? Are you doing this as a favor/ friend's wedding/ party? There's so many factors that go into this, and I think you just need to be smart about how you address them.



                              - If this is a relationship that may continue, set a user-friendly but firm precedent: maybe a one-time deal, but next time you'll need more to cover time and expenses.



                              - Big Deal is a cover band, so "exposure" is a relative term. Is it worth it for YOU to do an overnight gig for this? For many bands, this would just be a fun "boys out of town" for the night kind of show where you go play, and then have some drinks at your hotel to get away from the wife.



                              - Do you want to play this gig? If not, charge big dollars and hey, maybe they pay for it!



                              - Understand why it's your band they're asking for and let that be a factor. I'm thinking that someone wants you for a specific function, since you're obviously not going to have a draw 3 hours from home. That normally means you're well-wanted, which normally means the client/ booker is more apt to work with you.



                              All these are free-balling thoughts, but please let us know more!
                              Music, music, I hear music

                              Comment



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