Members guitarguy19 Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 OK this is a rare rant from me...My cousin keeps PESTERING me for help, gig hook ups, a list of places we're playing at and trying to get in to, etc. It's so damn annoying!!!How do I tell him to get off his lazy ass and get his own band their own opportunities and stop trying to piggy back off of all of our hard work?I've had other bands (non relatives ) ask me for advice but they've always been more subtle with it. This guy just keeps blatantly trying to use us to get gigs and it's irritating!!Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Disown him? Seriously, though, tell him that. Advice is one thing, but contacts, pay rate, etc is no one's business but your own. I've got a local musician friend who's a nice guy, but he always immediately asks who you work with, how much you make, what's your draw like there... it becomes very inpersonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted December 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by FitchFY it becomes very inpersonable. Right!They basically just look at our calendar to try to find places to play. They pick our songlist and try to copy it. They've piggy backed almost every one of their gigs off of our calendar. I don't want to act like I'm 'afraid' of losing out because of them or anything, because I believe we're significantly better than they are. But it's just annoying to watch the poaching happen...and the fact of the matter is there are only so many dates to go around and there competition is fierce...especially in the higher echelon clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 They idolize you! haha Boy that's a tough one never been through this. Is blood thicker than water? Have to answer that question yourself I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 I would tell him to lay off a bit. Let him know you can point him in the right direction, but he's on his own when trying to book the clubs. For what it's worth, I routinely check every other steadily gigging local band's website to see where they are playing... and I try to make sure that every club that books live music at least knows what my band does! I've been a bit slack lately (my mom passed earlier this year, and it slowed my drive a bit)... but I plan on hitting things hard between now and the end of the year. Still... booking a band on a consistent basis is as much research as it is meetings, phone calls, and... oh yeah, playing music.... maybe you should direct him to some good places to start his research! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Blackbird 13 I would tell him to lay off a bit. Let him know you can point him in the right direction, but he's on his own when trying to book the clubs.For what it's worth, I routinely check every other steadily gigging local band's website to see where they are playing... and I try to make sure that every club that books live music at least knows what my band does! I've been a bit slack lately (my mom passed earlier this year, and it slowed my drive a bit)... but I plan on hitting things hard between now and the end of the year.Still... booking a band on a consistent basis is as much research as it is meetings, phone calls, and... oh yeah, playing music.... maybe you should direct him to some good places to start his research! THIS.I have helped people in the past, if the band was good enough and they were nice people I'll give them a contact name but i don't discuss cash.BTW (and I don't want to derail but-) my condolences, sorry for your loss. losing a parent sucks everything out of you. Playing music helps though... it helped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackbird 13 Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by jeff42 BTW (and I don't want to derail but-) my condolences, sorry for your loss. losing a parent sucks everything out of you. Playing music helps though... it helped me. Thanks man. I'm 29 (was 28.. my mom passed on March 30th, 5 days before my 29th birthday)... and while she'd had health problems, it was kinda sudden. I've always been driven with my music.. but a large part of that has been because my parents were behind me. With my mom passing, and my dad and I's relationship becoming a bit strained, it just stifled some of that spark. It's coming back now, slowly but surely, which is good, because I've got gigs to book and bills to pay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 12, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by guitarguy19 OK this is a rare rant from me...My cousin keeps PESTERING me for help, gig hook ups, a list of places we're playing at and trying to get in to, etc. It's so damn annoying!!!How do I tell him to get off his lazy ass and get his own band their own opportunities and stop trying to piggy back off of all of our hard work?I've had other bands (non relatives ) ask me for advice but they've always been more subtle with it. This guy just keeps blatantly trying to use us to get gigs and it's irritating!!Rant over. I'd be honest with him and tell him you're concerned he's going to steal your gigs. That's what it is really. And you should be scared. It doesn't matter if you're the better band. Apple was the better computer once upon a time and as Bill Gates said to Jobs, "It doesn't matter, Steve. They don't care." Your cousin is a very real threat to your gigging. I'd compliment him and tell you can't help him any more. "You guys are too good and are official competition to us." With a smile and hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight I'd be honest with him and tell him you're concerned he's going to steal your gigs. That's what it is really. And you should be scared. It doesn't matter if you're the better band. Apple was the better computer once upon a time and as Bill Gates said to Jobs, "It doesn't matter, Steve. They don't care." Your cousin is a very real threat to your gigging. I'd compliment him and tell you can't help him any more. "You guys are too good and are official competition to us." With a smile and hug. I think you forgot to use the sarcasm emoticon!I don't know if you're serious or not, but I wouldn't say any of that stuff to a cousin who was trying to get gigs where I played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight I'd be honest with him and tell him you're concerned he's going to steal your gigs. That's what it is really. And you should be scared. It doesn't matter if you're the better band. Apple was the better computer once upon a time and as Bill Gates said to Jobs, "It doesn't matter, Steve. They don't care." Your cousin is a very real threat to your gigging. I'd compliment him and tell you can't help him any more. "You guys are too good and are official competition to us." With a smile and hug. Not only stealing your gigs he's probably using you as a reference with or without your permission? If that bands sucks that association of suckiness is going to reflect on your band or "brand" so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 12, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by New Trail I think you forgot to use the sarcasm emoticon!I don't know if you're serious or not, but I wouldn't say any of that stuff to a cousin who was trying to get gigs where I played. I'm not being sarcastic. Maybe I'm missing something. I'd tell him I can't help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rangefinder Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight I'm not being sarcastic. Maybe I'm missing something. I'd tell him I can't help him. I've found "No" and its variants to be very useful words. ESPECIALLY with family members, some of whom just assume you'll do anything they ask. Reasons are entirely optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 12, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by rangefinder I've found "No" and its variants to be very useful words. ESPECIALLY with family members, some of whom just assume you'll do anything they ask. Reasons are entirely optional. Exactly. But, I have no issue with being kind when I'm saying no. As a matter of fact, the compliment approach would work very well I think. "You guys are too good, you're going to steal our gigs, I can't help you man!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Yeah, if you're gonna poach gigs or even piggyback with songs, approach -whatever....why would you expect other bands to help you do this? That's what I'd tell him. It's like: c'mon dude, I see what you're doing. Get your own god damned gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Lee Knight Exactly. But, I have no issue with being kind when I'm saying no. As a matter of fact, the compliment approach would work very well I think. "You guys are too good, you're going to steal our gigs, I can't help you man!" Very, very solid advice coming from Lee here! After all, this dude is still family. And you can internet tough guy it out and say any number of things, but how's that help in the real world? Take Lee's approach. It compliments him (sincerely - his band IS a threat, especially if they provide similar stuff as you and for less $$$) and at the same time gets him off your back. Win/win.Don't forget that hug! `Tis the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 You might also mention that while you don't mind helping him out on occasion, your band didn't just have these gigs and these rooms fall into your laps; you worked your way up the ladder at smaller clubs, honing your craft and tightening things up until you were ready for prime time at the bigger clubs. It's not just about paying dues...it's also about developing a certain level of professionalism and providing a quality product.As we all know, a band's first impression is often their last. If his band does get booked into a better room and the club doesn't like them.....then they'll probably never get booked into that room again. Because no matter how good they become in the future, two years from now that club manager will hear the name and think, "Oh yeah, I remember those guys. That band sucks." And he won't give them the time of day.You might also mention that clubs don't have much respect for cover bands that are blatantly ripping off other local cover bands. It's like a local club owner once told me:Local Band X is just a rip-off of Local Band Y....same look, same set list, everything. What Band X doesn't get is that nobody wants a band that is just like Band Y.....they want Band Y. These are local bands we're talking about. If someone likes Band Y, then they're gonna go see Band Y. And if I want Band Y to play at my club, then I'm going to hire Band Y....not some cheap knock-off Y-Band wannabe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tullsterx Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Tell him the [bandAssHoles] kinda don't want you to talk about stuff like that with people outside the band. [Kinda look around nervously when you tell him, and say it in a hushed tone.] Or just ask him to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by nchangin Not only stealing your gigs he's probably using you as a reference with or without your permission? If that bands sucks that association of suckiness is going to reflect on your band or "brand" so to speak. The likelihood that he's using you and/or your band's name as a reference would be my biggest concern. The fact that another band is obviously trying to emulate everything you do - could be viewed as almost flattering. The fact that they're marketing themselves at the same places you play - is simply smart business. Every band I've ever played in has done a little research on the bands that play the rooms we play in and/or the rooms we want to play in. Part of that research is to examine where they're playing that we aren't - and usually results in us taking a look at those rooms to see if we think we'd be a fit there as well. That's simply being "market aware". However, having somebody use your name and/or your band's name as a reference IS an issue. Right wrong or indifferent - references can be viewed as a reflection on you. You can't control what your cousin says or does - nor can you control what (if any) stock anybody who hears your cousin name dropping puts into it. All you can do is keep it in the back of your mind - and if anybody mentions it to you - distance yourself from it as best you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by nchangin Not only stealing your gigs he's probably using you as a reference with or without your permission? If that bands sucks that association of suckiness is going to reflect on your band or "brand" so to speak. The likelihood that he's using you and/or your band's name as a reference would be my biggest concern. The fact that another band is obviously trying to emulate everything you do - could be viewed as almost flattering. The fact that they're marketing themselves at the same places you play - is simply smart business. Every band I've ever played in has done a little research on the bands that play the rooms we play in and/or the rooms we want to play in. Part of that research is to examine where they're playing that we aren't - and usually results in us taking a look at those rooms to see if we think we'd be a fit there as well. That's simply being "market aware". However, having somebody use your name and/or your band's name as a reference IS an issue. Right wrong or indifferent - references can be viewed as a reflection on you. You can't control what your cousin says or does - nor can you control what (if any) stock anybody who hears your cousin name dropping puts into it. All you can do is keep it in the back of your mind - and if anybody mentions it to you - distance yourself from it as best you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by SpaceNorman The likelihood that he's using you and/or your band's name as a reference would be my biggest concern. I'm actually thinking that he doesn't do this...but I can't be 100% sure on that. His band has been around longer than us actually. I just think they're running out of places to play and not gigging enough so he's wanting to give his singer (who actually does the booking) more ideas for rooms to play. The poaching our songlist thing doesn't really bother me...we're not reinventing the wheel...they can do whatever songs they want. The discussing money thing...I've talked with him before about it before "as friends"...at that point it didn't really bother me. I think the real reason he was asking was to make sure his singer/manager wasn't screwing over the rest of the band, since the places he's asked about have paid a pretty flat rate to all their bands. He hasn't asked this in a while but I think in the future I need to find a nice way to keep this on the DL, especially now that we're starting to move a little above the average in terms of pay rate.It was just annoying me to get this message on Facebook...which is what lead to the rant "Hey send me a list of all the places SpaceCat plays (or has played). Thanks."LOL I'm like...OK sure no problem!!! Yessir Boss...Jesus Christ I guess I owe you or something. Maybe I could give your ass cheeks a rub down too while I'm at it boss? Shine ya shoes for a nickel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 If I got that message i'd just say sorry, that's confidential information. PayPal my $500 and it's yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankthomson Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 just say NO. u needed help with this?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 "Hey send me a list of all the places SpaceCat plays (or has played). Thanks." The proper response to that message is, and always will be, "Okay... now go home and get your f___ing shine box!" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 The proper response to that message is, and always will be, "Okay... now go home and get your f___ing shine box!" :D Ha, best use of Goodfellas reference ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caeman Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 This is family, so tough love is in order. Just say what you wrote, "Get off your lazy ass and get your own band their own opportunities and stop trying to piggy back off of all of our hard work." Don't all families talk like this to each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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