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  • Quote Originally Posted by Potts
    View Post

    I have to say that I'm with Lee Knight on this one completely!




    So how good does a band have to be before they are good enough to be allowed to buy subs? How do we determine this?

    Comment


    • I want to weigh in on this... someone made a joke earlier about subs making you a better band by improving your harmonies, etc. IMHO, they were actually half-right. Speaking from experience, let me say that, in my mind, we are "slightly better than mediocre". We don't suck as much as some, but there are still a lot of bands that could eat us for breakfast. Still, we've come a long way since Day One and have a few gigs that other bands would kill for, so I think what I have to say may have some merit.



      As I look back on how we've progressed over the years, I can say that as our equipment got better, we did as well. Not because of the equipment - but because the less we had to worry about equipment, the more we could concentrate on improving harmonies, stage presence, etc. It is a result of having simple things like powered subs and tops that cut down our setup time, a reliable mixing board and FOH rack, a dedicated sound man, a dedicated light man, improving our stage monitor setup - those environmental things that minimize distractions and allow us to concentrate on the stuff that WE have control over when we set foot on that stage - stuff like our appearance, our harmonies, and our stage presence (I am still working on all three).



      It's like going out on a date and dressing in clothes that make you look good - you are the same person that you are in sloppy clothes, but it raises your confidence so that you can actually become a bigger and better version of yourself without worrying about how you look. Yes, the music matters, but aren't you going to work on that anyhow? If you're not, then you need to sit at home and play in your bedroom.



      The same goes for the practice room that I've put hours of time and lots of money into - although our practice equipment isn't the best, we can walk in and get to work without needing to set up amps/drumkit/mics. Rehearsals are now more efficient and we get a LOT done. Not because we're working harder, but because we don't have the distractions that would keep us from working hard. Your working environment matters!



      So, I do think that investing in things like subs/lights/banner *will* increase your value, by helping you get out of your own way so you can work on woodshedding harmonies and stage presence. It's a package deal. The short answer to the OP is this: improve everything that you can!
      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
      My cover band

      HARD WORK BEATS TALENT WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD

      Comment


      • I want to weigh in on this... someone made a joke earlier about subs making you a better band by improving your harmonies, etc. IMHO, they were actually half-right. Speaking from experience, let me say that, in my mind, we are "slightly better than mediocre". We don't suck as much as some, but there are still a lot of bands that could eat us for breakfast. Still, we've come a long way since Day One and have a few gigs that other bands would kill for, so I think what I have to say may have some merit.



        As I look back on how we've progressed over the years, I can say that as our equipment got better, we did as well. Not because of the equipment - but because the less we had to worry about equipment, the more we could concentrate on improving harmonies, stage presence, etc. It is a result of having simple things like powered subs and tops that cut down our setup time, a reliable mixing board and FOH rack, a dedicated sound man, a dedicated light man, improving our stage monitor setup - those environmental things that minimize distractions and allow us to concentrate on the stuff that WE have control over when we set foot on that stage - stuff like our appearance, our harmonies, and our stage presence (I am still working on all three).



        It's like going out on a date and dressing in clothes that make you look good - you are the same person that you are in sloppy clothes, but it raises your confidence so that you can actually become a bigger and better version of yourself without worrying about how you look. Yes, the music matters, but aren't you going to work on that anyhow? If you're not, then you need to sit at home and play in your bedroom.



        The same goes for the practice room that I've put hours of time and lots of money into - although our practice equipment isn't the best, we can walk in and get to work without needing to set up amps/drumkit/mics. Rehearsals are now more efficient and we get a LOT done. Not because we're working harder, but because we don't have the distractions that would keep us from working hard. Your working environment matters!



        So, I do think that investing in things like subs/lights/banner *will* increase your value, by helping you get out of your own way so you can work on woodshedding harmonies and stage presence. It's a package deal. The short answer to the OP is this: improve everything that you can!
        * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        My cover band

        HARD WORK BEATS TALENT WHEN TALENT DOESN'T WORK HARD

        Comment








        • Quote Originally Posted by mstreck
          View Post

          I want to weigh in on this... someone made a joke earlier about subs making you a better band by improving your harmonies, etc. IMHO, they were actually half-right. Speaking from experience, let me say that, in my mind, we are "slightly better than mediocre". We don't suck as much as some, but there are still a lot of bands that could eat us for breakfast. Still, we've come a long way since Day One and have a few gigs that other bands would kill for, so I think what I have to say may have some merit.



          As I look back on how we've progressed over the years, I can say that as our equipment got better, we did as well. Not because of the equipment - but because the less we had to worry about equipment, the more we could concentrate on improving harmonies, stage presence, etc. It is a result of having simple things like powered subs and tops that cut down our setup time, a reliable mixing board and FOH rack, a dedicated sound man, a dedicated light man, improving our stage monitor setup - those environmental things that minimize distractions and allow us to concentrate on the stuff that WE have control over when we set foot on that stage - stuff like our appearance, our harmonies, and our stage presence (I am still working on all three).



          It's like going out on a date and dressing in clothes that make you look good - you are the same person that you are in sloppy clothes, but it raises your confidence so that you can actually become a bigger and better version of yourself without worrying about how you look. Yes, the music matters, but aren't you going to work on that anyhow? If you're not, then you need to sit at home and play in your bedroom.



          The same goes for the practice room that I've put hours of time and lots of money into - although our practice equipment isn't the best, we can walk in and get to work without needing to set up amps/drumkit/mics. Rehearsals are now more efficient and we get a LOT done. Not because we're working harder, but because we don't have the distractions that would keep us from working hard. Your working environment matters!



          So, I do think that investing in things like subs/lights/banner *will* increase your value, by helping you get out of your own way so you can work on woodshedding harmonies and stage presence. It's a package deal. The short answer to the OP is this: improve everything that you can!




          Comment








          • Quote Originally Posted by mstreck
            View Post

            I want to weigh in on this... someone made a joke earlier about subs making you a better band by improving your harmonies, etc. IMHO, they were actually half-right. Speaking from experience, let me say that, in my mind, we are "slightly better than mediocre". We don't suck as much as some, but there are still a lot of bands that could eat us for breakfast. Still, we've come a long way since Day One and have a few gigs that other bands would kill for, so I think what I have to say may have some merit.



            As I look back on how we've progressed over the years, I can say that as our equipment got better, we did as well. Not because of the equipment - but because the less we had to worry about equipment, the more we could concentrate on improving harmonies, stage presence, etc. It is a result of having simple things like powered subs and tops that cut down our setup time, a reliable mixing board and FOH rack, a dedicated sound man, a dedicated light man, improving our stage monitor setup - those environmental things that minimize distractions and allow us to concentrate on the stuff that WE have control over when we set foot on that stage - stuff like our appearance, our harmonies, and our stage presence (I am still working on all three).



            It's like going out on a date and dressing in clothes that make you look good - you are the same person that you are in sloppy clothes, but it raises your confidence so that you can actually become a bigger and better version of yourself without worrying about how you look. Yes, the music matters, but aren't you going to work on that anyhow? If you're not, then you need to sit at home and play in your bedroom.



            The same goes for the practice room that I've put hours of time and lots of money into - although our practice equipment isn't the best, we can walk in and get to work without needing to set up amps/drumkit/mics. Rehearsals are now more efficient and we get a LOT done. Not because we're working harder, but because we don't have the distractions that would keep us from working hard. Your working environment matters!



            So, I do think that investing in things like subs/lights/banner *will* increase your value, by helping you get out of your own way so you can work on woodshedding harmonies and stage presence. It's a package deal. The short answer to the OP is this: improve everything that you can!




            Comment


            • I think the point here is that it is possible to get sidetracked by an obsession with equipment upgrades. It happened with my old trio, where the guitar player was constantly buying this and readjusting that. It turned out to be an avoidance tactic. Conscious or subconscious I can't say, but we wasted a lot of time that should have been spent on music.



              It doesn't have to work like this, of course, but I know it can happen.

              Comment


              • I think the point here is that it is possible to get sidetracked by an obsession with equipment upgrades. It happened with my old trio, where the guitar player was constantly buying this and readjusting that. It turned out to be an avoidance tactic. Conscious or subconscious I can't say, but we wasted a lot of time that should have been spent on music.



                It doesn't have to work like this, of course, but I know it can happen.

                Comment








                • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
                  View Post

                  I think the point here is that it is possible to get sidetracked by an obsession with equipment upgrades. It happened with my old trio, where the guitar player was constantly buying this and readjusting that. It turned out to be an avoidance tactic. Conscious or subconscious I can't say, but we wasted a lot of time that should have been spent on music.



                  It doesn't have to work like this, of course, but I know it can happen.




                  I've certainly seen that happen on an individual level, but never really on a group level. I've never known of a band that didn't rehearse because they were too busy trying to mess around with buying more and bigger PA systems, but I suppose it's probably happened somewhere.



                  Good gear is important. And while I'd hate to a see a bad band that might never BE a good band wasting a lot of money on expensive gear they'll never fully utilize, money is just money and gear is just gear and if you can't use it someday you can sell it.



                  And certainly I've facepalmed over seeing really lousy bands with AWESOME gear and thinking they were the **************** because of it. But whatever. It's their money. The good gear isn't going to make them better or get them any further really.



                  Much worse is seeing a good or even decent band being held back because their gear doesn't match the music they are putting through it. Or always trying to play catch-up with gear. If you can afford the good stuff; get it. Like Mike says, it might even inspire a band to work harder and, if nothing else, will make other parts of their lives much easier.

                  Comment








                  • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
                    View Post

                    I think the point here is that it is possible to get sidetracked by an obsession with equipment upgrades. It happened with my old trio, where the guitar player was constantly buying this and readjusting that. It turned out to be an avoidance tactic. Conscious or subconscious I can't say, but we wasted a lot of time that should have been spent on music.



                    It doesn't have to work like this, of course, but I know it can happen.




                    I've certainly seen that happen on an individual level, but never really on a group level. I've never known of a band that didn't rehearse because they were too busy trying to mess around with buying more and bigger PA systems, but I suppose it's probably happened somewhere.



                    Good gear is important. And while I'd hate to a see a bad band that might never BE a good band wasting a lot of money on expensive gear they'll never fully utilize, money is just money and gear is just gear and if you can't use it someday you can sell it.



                    And certainly I've facepalmed over seeing really lousy bands with AWESOME gear and thinking they were the **************** because of it. But whatever. It's their money. The good gear isn't going to make them better or get them any further really.



                    Much worse is seeing a good or even decent band being held back because their gear doesn't match the music they are putting through it. Or always trying to play catch-up with gear. If you can afford the good stuff; get it. Like Mike says, it might even inspire a band to work harder and, if nothing else, will make other parts of their lives much easier.

                    Comment


                    • If you go back and read the OP he said he had money for upgrades. That is why I said subs. They may need to work on the band harmonies but unless he is going to do something lame and buy a harmonizer you can't buy harmonies you have to work on it.

                      Comment


                      • If you go back and read the OP he said he had money for upgrades. That is why I said subs. They may need to work on the band harmonies but unless he is going to do something lame and buy a harmonizer you can't buy harmonies you have to work on it.

                        Comment








                        • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
                          View Post

                          If you go back and read the OP he said he had money for upgrades. That is why I said subs. They may need to work on the band harmonies but unless he is going to do something lame and buy a harmonizer you can't buy harmonies you have to work on it.




                          That is a reasonable suggestion. Its not going to turn this band into a A room band or a top corp/ even band. Getting better as a band is going to do that. The subs as been said are just icing on the cake if they really know how to use them if the take them into a small room. You can get so impressed with the gear that you just end up too loud and shoot yourself in the foot. Too loud is a real buzz kill for a venue.
                          "you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park"

                          Comment








                          • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
                            View Post

                            If you go back and read the OP he said he had money for upgrades. That is why I said subs. They may need to work on the band harmonies but unless he is going to do something lame and buy a harmonizer you can't buy harmonies you have to work on it.




                            That is a reasonable suggestion. Its not going to turn this band into a A room band or a top corp/ even band. Getting better as a band is going to do that. The subs as been said are just icing on the cake if they really know how to use them if the take them into a small room. You can get so impressed with the gear that you just end up too loud and shoot yourself in the foot. Too loud is a real buzz kill for a venue.
                            "you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park"

                            Comment








                            • Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS
                              View Post

                              That is a reasonable suggestion. Its not going to turn this band into a A room band or a top corp/ even band. Getting better as a band is going to do that. The subs as been said are just icing on the cake if they really know how to use them if the take them into a small room. You can get so impressed with the gear that you just end up too loud and shoot yourself in the foot. Too loud is a real buzz kill for a venue.




                              but subs really shouldn't make you simply louder, if you are doing things correctly.
                              tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                              www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                              -For Sale:
                              -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                              -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                              - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                              - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                              - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                              Comment








                              • Quote Originally Posted by TIMKEYS
                                View Post

                                That is a reasonable suggestion. Its not going to turn this band into a A room band or a top corp/ even band. Getting better as a band is going to do that. The subs as been said are just icing on the cake if they really know how to use them if the take them into a small room. You can get so impressed with the gear that you just end up too loud and shoot yourself in the foot. Too loud is a real buzz kill for a venue.




                                but subs really shouldn't make you simply louder, if you are doing things correctly.
                                tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                                www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                                -For Sale:
                                -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                                -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                                - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                                - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                                - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                                Comment













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