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What are some ways to improve the "value" of your band?

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  • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
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    Talking level?! Please. Are you really too young to remember when kick ass bands used PAs for vocals only? A lot of them still do.




    and if they are playing rock, they sound dated and garagy.
    tlbonehead@yahoo.com
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    • Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
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      and if they are playing rock, they sound dated and garagy.




      My frame of reference isn't rock. . . . but I will say that I've heard a lot of very good bands in small bars that don't sound "garagy" at all. We're talking full time pros.



      And more to the point in this thread. . . . The myriad mediocre bands that we all like to rag on won't be helped by subs. It's the music, folks.

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      • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
        View Post

        My frame of reference isn't rock. . . . but I will say that I've heard a lot of very good bands in small bars that don't sound "garagy" at all. We're talking full time pros.



        And more to the point in this thread. . . . The myriad mediocre bands that we all like to rag on won't be helped by subs. It's the music, folks.




        its all of it.
        tlbonehead@yahoo.com
        www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
        -For Sale:
        -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
        -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
        - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
        - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
        - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

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        • Quote Originally Posted by tlbonehead
          View Post

          its all of it.




          Well yes . . . . and no. We could list all the things we talk about here that contribute to successful participation in the live music scene, but I'm sure you'll agree that there are different paths that work reasonably well that pay little attention to some while emphasizing others. As I recall, you're the one who de-emphasizes attire, at least to the extent that some of us would. Your approach works for you; end of story.

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          • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
            View Post

            Talking level?! Please. Are you really too young to remember when kick ass bands used PAs for vocals only? A lot of them still do.




            No I remember late 70s into the 80s when kickass bands were using huge 3 or 4 way systems and concert level lighting and needed a big box truck to haul it around. That is the way the men did it. Bands using vocal only PAs were playing ****************holes just like they do now. It looks to me that the majority of the posters that are using subs for the most part are the ones making money. Maybe because they have a clue.

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            • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
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              No I remember late 70s into the 80s when kickass bands were using huge 3 or 4 way systems and concert level lighting and needed a big box truck to haul it around. That is the way the men did it. Bands using vocal only PAs were playing ****************holes just like they do now. It looks to me that the majority of the posters that are using subs for the most part are the ones making money. Maybe because they have a clue.




              I stand by my post. You're too young to remember the days before subs - late 60s, early 70s. And you're wrong about the correlation between subs and net annual income, at least in my market.

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              • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
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                I stand by my post. You're too young to remember the days before subs - late 60s, early 70s. And you're wrong about the correlation between subs and net annual income, at least in my market.




                Whatever if subs would have been available back in the 60s when the dinosaurs ruled the earth the bands that cared what they sounded like would have been using them instead of a shure vocalmaster PA.

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                • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
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                  Whatever if subs would have been available back in the 60s when the dinosaurs ruled the earth the bands that cared what they sounded like would have been using them instead of a shure vocalmaster PA.




                  Your ageism doesn't impress me.



                  I was playing through state of the art VOT A7s on the road and I don't think it had any effect on our net one way or the other.



                  I'm tempted to post videos of current kick ass bands playing without subs, but I know from reading your posts that they will fall on deaf ears.

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                  • I'm not exactly a spring chicken {52} but I have been playing in bands non stop now for 35 years. Can you say the same?

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                    • Quote Originally Posted by modulusman
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                      I'm not exactly a spring chicken {52} but I have been playing in bands non stop now for 35 years. Can you say the same?




                      I'm thirteen years older than you. I played full time when I was young. I played a different style of music, both then and now. Most importantly, we're playing in different circuits. Whether or not you have other interests that you've pursued during your adult life does not change those relevant facts.

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                      • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
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                        But they're designed to do that. My new keyboard amplification set up is a direct line into an EV bi-amped 15"/horn active speaker.




                        They may be designed to do that, but offloading the LF to the subs opens up a considerable amount of headroom for the mains speakers to reproduce everything else.



                        -Dan.
                        Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.

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                        • Quote Originally Posted by IsildursBane
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                          They may be designed to do that, but offloading the LF to the subs opens up a considerable amount of headroom for the mains speakers to reproduce everything else.



                          -Dan.




                          If by "everything else" you mean other DI instruments, then yes, I can see the benefits if those instruments produce low frequencies. If it's just vocals, then the frequencies that are getting amplified fall into a pretty narrow range - certainly well above what the crossover would be.



                          I get the feeling that some of you can't imagine ANYONE listening to ANY band playing ANY style of music in ANY room and enjoying the experience.

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                          • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
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                            If by "everything else" you mean other DI instruments, then yes, I can see the benefits if those instruments produce low frequencies. If it's just vocals, then the frequencies that are getting amplified fall into a pretty narrow range - certainly well above what the crossover would be.




                            As this Frequency Chart shows - there are quite a few sound sources on the typical bar band stage that produce sound in the frequency range handled by the subs (assuming a crossover point of 100 Hz.)



                            Just an observation, but I'm stuggling to understand why anybody would try to make a case against using subs from purely a sound quality perspective. A properly tuned system that includes quality subs and mains is a far more capable sound and flexible sound reinforcement solution than a system that simply uses "full range cabinets".



                            I can understand the argument about subs being "overkill" in small rooms (i.e., we can get by without 'em). I can understand debating whether the improvement in sound is worth the cost to purchase them and the effort to deploy them. However, trying to argue that subs don't bring benefit to the typical bar band's sound seems pretty osterrich-like to me.



                            Subs may not be the best use of time and resources in terms of addressing the OP's issues - however, trying to argue that subs won't improve the capabilities of their PA simply doesn't hold water.
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                            • Quote Originally Posted by SeniorBlues
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                              I'm thirteen years older than you. I played full time when I was young. I played a different style of music, both then and now. Most importantly, we're playing in different circuits. Whether or not you have other interests that you've pursued during your adult life does not change those relevant facts.




                              The relevant facts are that almost everyone in this thread disagrees with you.

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                              • Quote Originally Posted by SpaceNorman
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                                I can understand the argument about subs being "overkill" in small rooms (i.e., we can get by without 'em). I can understand debating whether the improvement in sound is worth the cost to purchase them and the effort to deploy them. However, trying to argue that subs don't bring benefit to the typical bar band's sound seems pretty osterrich-like to me.




                                My arguments have focused on your first two points. Your third point is really just a variation on the second, and I addressed it in the post you quoted. I never claimed that subs have no benefit to a band running everything through a PA.



                                Done . . . .

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