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outdated concept of "a Band " (covers)

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  • outdated concept of "a Band " (covers)

    I ran into this several times . You know you're  at a cover band audition & they ask "are you prepared to join our band". The want 1 or 2 rehersals/wk @ 1hr drive  ( mostly beer jams in the man cave basement)  , they want my availabiliy to play any Fri/Sat for ~ $50 a gig.  

    If I say I can be a fully contributing performer by mostly woodsheding ( Ive been at this for 30yrs) they are often personally insulted like their band ( "boysclub") isnt good enuf for me ! Sheeshh!

    This adolesent Band club concept is like a highschool thing  from the Monkeys "one for all all for one". A cover band is not an original band from the 60s when you lived together toured and traded drugs & girls .png" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />

    what say you? 


  • #2

    I tend to agree with you.  But, maybe these particular guys are looking for more of a hangout bud than a guy to gig with.  With everything you described, it is certainly not worth the money so you'd have to be doing it for another factor. 

    One thing I have learned is that some people don't touch their instruments except at band practice and those guys tend to like to have an endless amount of practices.  I've decided that's not for me.

    http://www.reverbnation.com/thedubiouscapture<br>

    Comment


    • guido61
      guido61 commented
      Editing a comment

      This concept is common and is one of the main reasons band pay is so low and people don't put much value on live music.  

      When musicians take an amateur approach to being a band and then take it out into the marketplace, it has drag-down effect on the entire industry.


    • jcpatte2
      jcpatte2 commented
      Editing a comment
      I've changed my stance on this over the years and tend to agree with the OP. As a solo recording artist that has to play covers to make it in my market (Country), I used to expect guys to practice 1x/week and they never showed up knowing the material. Now, they get a link to my band resources website with song list, chord chart, click tracks, and instructional videos (swiped from YouTube). Basically, all the resources they can use to learn the songs on their own.

      Next, I tell them to tell me when they know everything..... with the caveat not to waste my time or their's (because they will be fired if they can't cut it) and when they think they're ready we rehearse. And by rehearse, I mean work on the show itself, not the songs which they should already know.

      BTW, did I mention I pay for rehearsals not for practice time. The same way they do it in Nashville. Be serious and professional and you're rewarded. Be lazy and stay in the basement!

  • #3

    I don't know that the band concept so much "outdated", per se...(or maybe it is?)....but I think as our lives develop and we develop interests and responsibilities outside of music,  many of us simply no longer have the time to devote to a band as we did in our teens and twenties.  

    Even though we may stil enjoy the camaradie and boys' club atmosphere....it's very hard to justify trading family time for band time unless you're getting paid a reasonable amount of money to do so. 

    As a married guy, I find it much easier to juggle things when most or all of the guys in the band are married.   Single guys often don't have families to worry about, so all-night practices and $50 gigs aren't a big problem for them;  the band is their family.

    But if you're married, it doesn't matter how supportive your wife is or how much she likes the band....she's not going to be happy with her husband being gone 2-3 nights a week for hours on end with little or no  monetary compensation.  Most married guys are lucky to maintain a once-a-week band practice schedule.... if even that much.    (Personally, my band hasn't practiced in about two years.)   As long as everyone does their homework and handles their parts in a professional manner, it doesn't take a lot of rehearsal.


    But if there are single guys in the band (especially the bandleader), then they can very easily get frustrated with what they perceive as a lack of progress  ("we'd be so much better/tighter/etc if we practiced more often").....and that frustration often leads to resentment and tension.   And ultimately, that tension that causes far more problems that any lack of dedication, preparation, or whatever.

    Comment


    • #4

      Kevin T wrote:

      I ran into this several times . You know you're  at a cover band audition & they ask "are you prepared to join our band". The want 1 or 2 rehersals/wk @ 1hr drive  ( mostly beer jams in the man cave basement)  , they want my availabiliy to play any Fri/Sat for ~ $50 a gig.  

      If I say I can be a fully contributing performer by mostly woodsheding ( Ive been at this for 30yrs) they are often personally insulted like their band ( "boysclub") isnt good enuf for me ! Sheeshh!

      This adolesent Band club concept is like a highschool thing  from the Monkeys "one for all all for one". A cover band is not an original band from the 60s when you lived together toured and traded drugs & girls .png" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />

      what say you? 


      I hear ya. Doesn't just go for a new band either, but also an existing band like mine that's been together for a few years. We have a ton of songs, and unless we're working on something new or complex (i.e. our own arrangement of something, medley transitions, etc.) then I don't see the need to get together regularly to rehearse. Moreover, other people's unwillingness to work things out or review things on their own shouldn't really be my problem that requires me to be dragged into rehearsal to go over that stuff. Like you said, they're covers, not something that needs to be "worked out." 

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      • mstreck
        mstreck commented
        Editing a comment

        stratotastic wrote:

        unless we're working on something new or complex (i.e. our own arrangement of something, medley transitions, etc.) then I don't see the need to get together regularly to rehearse. 

        We always have regularly scheduled rehearsals. For us, if we *can* work on something new, we do. Every week that we don't rehearse puts us a week behind learning new material. I can see it not being necessary for a classic rock cover band where everyone already knows the songs, but (re)arranging pop songs/medleys takes some time in the rehearsal space - especially if people aren't working on the material on their own, for whatever reason.


      • nousername
        nousername commented
        Editing a comment

        stratotastic wrote:

        Kevin T wrote:

        I ran into this several times . You know you're  at a cover band audition & they ask "are you prepared to join our band". The want 1 or 2 rehersals/wk @ 1hr drive  ( mostly beer jams in the man cave basement)  , they want my availabiliy to play any Fri/Sat for ~ $50 a gig.  

        If I say I can be a fully contributing performer by mostly woodsheding ( Ive been at this for 30yrs) they are often personally insulted like their band ( "boysclub") isnt good enuf for me ! Sheeshh!

        This adolesent Band club concept is like a highschool thing  from the Monkeys "one for all all for one". A cover band is not an original band from the 60s when you lived together toured and traded drugs & girls .png" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />

        what say you? 


        I hear ya. Doesn't just go for a new band either, but also an existing band like mine that's been together for a few years. We have a ton of songs, and unless we're working on something new or complex (i.e. our own arrangement of something, medley transitions, etc.) then I don't see the need to get together regularly to rehearse. Moreover, other people's unwillingness to work things out or review things on their own shouldn't really be my problem that requires me to be dragged into rehearsal to go over that stuff. Like you said, they're covers, not something that needs to be "worked out." 


        Beer jams in the basement describes my band as well. Luckily, it's just five minutes away.

        And the second quoted reply is exactly how I feel. And I still show up because it is fun to play.


    • #5

      I'm all about efficient use of time - both mine and everybody else's.  That means showing up ready to play whatever was on the agenda for the event (this applies to rehearsals and gigs alike).   I'm NOT the least bit interested in getting hooked up with a project in which "rehearsals" are more about "hanging with the guys" than about the playing. 

      As far as whether or not rehearsals are needed ... I'm of the opinion that a band really needs to play once every week or so.  That "play" can be a rehearsal or a gig.  Bands that take long breaks (weeks,months) between getting together are bands that simply aren't going anywhere.  Sure, lots of bands are capable of pulling off those kind of gaps (I've played with many bands for which this is standard operating procedure).  While it can be done very easily - anybody who tries to argue that it's a recipe for success is either clueless or lying.  Take two groups of musicians with similar musical/vocal talent - have one that rehearses regularly and the other that only plays when they've got a gig.   The band that rehearses with regularity will no doubt to crisper, sharper and deliver a performance with more authority than that of the band that only comes together to play gigs.   

      The SpaceNorman

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      • #6
        LOL Oh man, been there, done that....yeah it was really frustrating some of the cover bands I was in that wanted to rehearse....IMHO it's just completely unnecesaary and as you pointed out it just means that one or more of the members just want to hang out and jam, which is pointless if your whole goal is to make money...you won't be making $50 a gig, you'll be making WAY less than 1/3 of that considering the 2x spent practicing, gas money to and from, and wear and tear on your car...

        If your only goal is to make money I'd say run like hell, and hopefully you'll be able to find a much better fit of a gigging cover band that just does it for the money and realizes that rehearsing (ESPECIALLY that much) is just a waste of time...as long as everybody puts in their time on their own there really is no need for it...good luck man....
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        Comment


        • TIMKEYS
          TIMKEYS commented
          Editing a comment

          we never have formal band practice ,, ,everything is live fire.   that doesnt mean that we shouldnt reherse but there just really is not alot of  time.

           


        • mstreck
          mstreck commented
          Editing a comment

          chevybusa wrote:
          you won't be making $50 a gig

          Now I get what you guys are saying. If you're only shooting for $50/man gigs, it definitely isn't worth it. Like someone said recently - "give them what they're willing to pay for".

          I guess I should start reading OP's more closely.

           


      • #7

        I think it depends on where you're at musically, your level of experience, and what the project is. I just stepped out of a Jimmy Buffett tribute act that I was in for a couple of years. We didn't know any JB when we started, so we spent a lot of time practicing and learning songs. But after a while, when we were steady gigging, we stopped practicing. But, the drummer still wanted to get together and practice more. . . he's a "the band is like a family" type guy. . . but, we just shrugged it off. 

        The band I'm in now (about 6 weeks) doesn't really practice at all. I've picked up like 48 songs and almost all of them we played for the first time live at a show we no rehearsal at all. It feels kinda haphazard to me, but, we've gone over well, gotten paid well, and have a lot of gigs.

        And I wouldn't stick around for $50 a show.

         

         

         

         

        Check my band: SoulPlay - > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TH9-e4FmaE
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        Comment


        • Potts
          Potts commented
          Editing a comment

          Tullsterx wrote:

          I just stepped out of a Jimmy Buffett tribute act that I was in for a couple of years. We didn't know any JB when we started, so we spent a lot of time practicing and learning songs.  


          I'm a huge Buffett fan and cant understand this concept unless you were strictly doing it for cash and had the market to support it. 


      • #8

        Kevin T wrote:

        I ran into this several times . You know you're  at a cover band audition & they ask "are you prepared to join our band". The want 1 or 2 rehersals/wk @ 1hr drive  ( mostly beer jams in the man cave basement)  , they want my availabiliy to play any Fri/Sat for ~ $50 a gig.  

        If I say I can be a fully contributing performer by mostly woodsheding ( Ive been at this for 30yrs) they are often personally insulted like their band ( "boysclub") isnt good enuf for me ! Sheeshh!

        This adolesent Band club concept is like a highschool thing  from the Monkeys "one for all all for one". A cover band is not an original band from the 60s when you lived together toured and traded drugs & girls .png" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />

        what say you? 


        band situations like that have their place.  You just have to decide if its somthing you want to do.  I played keys for a jam band project that got together one time a week.   I didnt have any  serious projects going and I said sure what the hell.   Good guys decent musicans but somewhat lead vocal challenged.   It was just somthing to do where i could stretch out and woodshed live on my playing with out any conflict or pressure.

        You just have to be able to look at a situation and know what it is and where its going to go.   To be honest it was a fun summer, jammin out with these guys.   I knew i was going back down to texas for the winter to hook back up with my band I played with there.    like mstreck,  the texas band is a bit of a social thing in some ways.  We have a good band , where we get booked to do some great shows.. but the mission statment is , when it stops being fun there is no  reason to do it anymore.   The main focus is a backing band for a songwriters original  music.   We do the house band gig at the band leaders bar just for the hell of it and social aspects, and to make the contacts for the good off property paying shows.   I just kinda chuckle when the musican friend that have who think we are nuts, jaws drop when I tell them about a off the hook show we just booked.    Ya gotta take this band thing in stride and really understand why we all do it.   Some guys golf ,, we play music.    I just get to do it with better musicans than most, which still  kinda freaks me out at times.   I played a show this weekend with a drummer that has gold records on his  wall.   Thats freeking cool as hell. 

        <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;you mess with him and you mess with the whole trailer park&quot;</div><br>

        Comment


        • #9
          Best situation i enjoyed was a longtime band auditioned me on a gig. Then played 50 gigs with no rehersals at all.......... Easy peezy. They were tight. After the 1st 2gigs i was OK.

          Comment


          • nousername
            nousername commented
            Editing a comment

            Kevin T wrote:
            Best situation i enjoyed was a longtime band auditioned me on a gig. Then played 50 gigs with no rehersals at all.......... Easy peezy. They were tight. After the 1st 2gigs i was OK.

            What a dream gig.


        • #10

          $50???ouch!?

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          • #11

            I don't have a problem if folks do the basement/mancave band thing. Just don't ask me to diddly fart around with your bull****************. I'll have my **************** together for each practice. Perfectly everytime. I'm not here to **************** around. I'm all about fun, but ****************ing around is not fun.

             

            Waiting for you to figure out a part while you rewind the cd 10 times is not fun. Arguing with a bandmember who can't play their part right, but won't admit it so they argue is not fun. Having to show the bass player his part only to have him forget it next rehearsal cuz he drank too much is not fun. I could go on....

             

            The bottom line is that people who are serious about their music are serious about it and that is fun to them. Then there are the folks who think they are serious, but really just want to **************** around. ****************ing around is fine, just amit that you just **************** around then we'll all know what to expect. And those of us who are serious won't sweat the small ****************.

             

            Nor will we show up to your beercouch/mancave jams that you call rehearsal. We will show up to the gig prepared and able to play the songs right. That way we won't have to listen to your haint of a wife yell from the top of the stairs that it's time to walk the dog in the middle of working out the bridge in "Bodies".

            <div class="signaturecontainer"><font face="Arial">&quot;Be regular and orderly in your life so that you may be </font><font face="Arial Black"><font size="2">violent and original</font></font> <font face="Arial">in your work&quot; - Gustave Flaubert</font></div>

            Comment


            • Tribal Techie
              Tribal Techie commented
              Editing a comment

              3shiftgtr wrote:

              I don't have a problem if folks do the basement/mancave band thing. Just don't ask me to diddly fart around with your bull****************. I'll have my **************** together for each practice. Perfectly everytime. I'm not here to **************** around. I'm all about fun, but ****************ing around is not fun.

               

              Waiting for you to figure out a part while you rewind the cd 10 times is not fun. Arguing with a bandmember who can't play their part right, but won't admit it so they argue is not fun. Having to show the bass player his part only to have him forget it next rehearsal cuz he drank too much is not fun. I could go on....

               

              The bottom line is that people who are serious about their music are serious about it and that is fun to them. Then there are the folks who think they are serious, but really just want to **************** around. ****************ing around is fine, just amit that you just **************** around then we'll all know what to expect. And those of us who are serious won't sweat the small ****************.

               

              Nor will we show up to your beercouch/mancave jams that you call rehearsal. We will show up to the gig prepared and able to play the songs right. That way we won't have to listen to your haint of a wife yell from the top of the stairs that it's time to walk the dog in the middle of working out the bridge in "Bodies".


              This is really where I'm at these days. I'm finding that there are people who seem to actually prefer rehearsal to gigs, though you could never get them to admit it. It can be maddening, b/c the ones who will not admit to stuff like that will also accuse you of being a non-committed or unprofessional musican b/c you don't want to rehearse every week so they can play bandleader.

              I have no problem rehearsing intensely a few times with a band in the beginning, especially if it's a top 40/variety type band that requires note for note delivery of most of the parts. Fair is fair. But please don't guilt me about not wanting to rehearse every week when things slow down to 1 or 2 gigs a month because you think it will "keep us tight". Especially when you make as many or more mistakes than anyone in the band despite all the rehearsal.

               

              I am in the process of leaving a fairly successful (for this area) band for this very reason. Constant rehearsal in a space that the bandmembers are required to pay for, micromanagement by a non-playing manager who takes 15% off the top of EVERY gig, bandleader who nitpicks you on parts that he thinks are wrong that nobody in the audience would ever hear,  while playing  some of his parts OUTRAGEOUSLY wrong (like playing min7 instead of dom7 on funk tunes, kindergarten chord voicings, etc), and also throws his temper at you when he thinks you are ****************ing up. No thanks, just can't do it any more.

               

              In keeping with my attempts to act professional through the whole thing, I gave the manager my notice and told her I would be happy to play out the booked gigs while they found a replacement. Hilariously, the first thing she asked is if I would still come to rehearsal every week (or more) while they looked for someone. Sorry, but no, lol. Bandleader called me up and wanted the same thing.

               

              I have not played with them for a month, and I have a 2 nighter with them this weekend, 5 sets a night. I got the setlist and I'll go over all the tunes. I've been with this band for 9 months, and not ever played a lot of this stuff before joining them (70s funk) and I guarantee I will make less mistakes (if any) on those gigs than the leader who has been playing all these tunes for ten years.

               

              Sorry for the rant, but this issue has been killing me in bands for the last few years. I think the solution is that I will no longer "join bands", but just "do gigs. " 


            • TrickyBoy
              TrickyBoy commented
              Editing a comment

              3shiftgtr wrote:

              I don't have a problem if folks do the basement/mancave band thing. Just don't ask me to diddly fart around with your bull****************. I'll have my **************** together for each practice. Perfectly everytime. I'm not here to **************** around. I'm all about fun, but ****************ing around is not fun.

               

              Waiting for you to figure out a part while you rewind the cd 10 times is not fun. Arguing with a bandmember who can't play their part right, but won't admit it so they argue is not fun. Having to show the bass player his part only to have him forget it next rehearsal cuz he drank too much is not fun. I could go on....

               

              The bottom line is that people who are serious about their music are serious about it and that is fun to them. Then there are the folks who think they are serious, but really just want to **************** around. ****************ing around is fine, just amit that you just **************** around then we'll all know what to expect. And those of us who are serious won't sweat the small ****************.

               

              Nor will we show up to your beercouch/mancave jams that you call rehearsal. We will show up to the gig prepared and able to play the songs right. That way we won't have to listen to your haint of a wife yell from the top of the stairs that it's time to walk the dog in the middle of working out the bridge in "Bodies".


               

              I love this!!!.  

              For the way we do stuff, we generally require one rehearsal before we play a tune live.  So, we generally like to get 4-6 together, rehearse once and add them to the set.  And the only reason a rehearsal is required is due to rearrangements, etc. associated with our instrumentation and/or if we're mashing up tunes.  Bruno Mars Locked Out Of Heaven - I told every to show up at the gig with it ready.  We sound checked with it and it was in our first set.


            • Tribal Techie
              Tribal Techie commented
              Editing a comment

              3shiftgtr wrote:

              I don't have a problem if folks do the basement/mancave band thing. Just don't ask me to diddly fart around with your bull****************. I'll have my **************** together for each practice. Perfectly everytime. I'm not here to **************** around. I'm all about fun, but ****************ing around is not fun.

               

              Waiting for you to figure out a part while you rewind the cd 10 times is not fun. Arguing with a bandmember who can't play their part right, but won't admit it so they argue is not fun. Having to show the bass player his part only to have him forget it next rehearsal cuz he drank too much is not fun. I could go on....

               

              The bottom line is that people who are serious about their music are serious about it and that is fun to them. Then there are the folks who think they are serious, but really just want to **************** around. ****************ing around is fine, just amit that you just **************** around then we'll all know what to expect. And those of us who are serious won't sweat the small ****************.

               

              Nor will we show up to your beercouch/mancave jams that you call rehearsal. We will show up to the gig prepared and able to play the songs right. That way we won't have to listen to your haint of a wife yell from the top of the stairs that it's time to walk the dog in the middle of working out the bridge in "Bodies".


              Also, I'm at the point where if I am going to do the "mancave" thing, I would like to do it with badass players who want to shed on instrumental tunes like So What or Black Orpheus at the very least, or more traditional standards that would kick my ass and teach me something, but not on note for note versions of I Kissed A Girl or Fire, with pauses to help the people who haven't learned the songs yet, lol.


          • #12
            BINGO! Im too old have significant skills & time & gas are

            Comment


            • #13
              Bingo
              Time/ gas /my skills are not free. At the 50-75 / gig avr pay Im not in it for money BUT lets be pros and not waist each others times.

              Comment


              • #14
                You mean the one about needless practicing to have male bonding sessions?

                Comment


                • #15
                  Too many boy scout clubs posing as bands. For the love of God who has that much basement time to waste?

                  Comment


                  • Tribal Techie
                    Tribal Techie commented
                    Editing a comment

                    Kevin T wrote:
                    Too many boy scout clubs posing as bands. For the love of God who has that much basement time to waste?

                    The singer in an old band of mine freely admitted that he loved band practice b/c it got him away from the wife and kids for a guaranteed 3-4 hours a week, lol.

                    Not my deal at all, since it usually involved waiting around for people to figure out how to play their parts in between drinks.



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