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Does anyone else feel this way?


Kramerguy

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I'm something of a perfectionist. Yeah, I'm in a cover-band, we play local bars, nobody expects the best of the best. I've also done a lot of originals work in the last three years. I've not been happy with any of it. The cover band is fun, but looking at dozens of performance videos, there's nothing I'm even happy enough with to put onto youtube, much less create a demo from.

The original work I've done I was unhappy with, I didn't have control over the production, so I had to just play my parts and be done with it- in hindsight, I was really unhappy mostly with the parts I came up with, on top of my guitar tone, etc.. but also unhappy with the material as a whole. Mostly in post-production, I became depressed at how bad it was, and my inability to change it. I know a lot of people would say it's good, but a lot of people are also either family, friends, or other musicians who are trying to be supportive and not hurt my feelings, so I rarely trust compliments.

What I'm getting at is that after 4 very active years in both covers and originals, I have almost zero audio or video that I feel is "good enough" to even post on my profiles on various sites. I've taken down everything I ever posted, ultimately disgusted with it. I struggle with whether or not I'm just too anal, or that I'm just not good enough to create something truly great.

So am I just a screwed up anomaly, or do other people also feel this way?

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Is your issue with the quality of the music you create - or is it that the production quality of the stuff you've recorded falls far short of the music it's trying to capture?

The bulk of my gigging is split between two cover acts - one is a male fronted 6 piece, the other a female fronted 8 piece with horns (Sax, Trombone, Trumpet/Flugelhorn). Both acts consistently deliver pretty decent performances - unfortunately, nothing we've captured in terms of live recordings comes close to what I consider "demo quality" recordings. I've listened to hours and hours of our live recordings - and while they're good enough for me to listen to and judge our performance - there's always a glaring problem with the mix as captured by the recording that in my opinion renders it useless as a demo clip.

If you're beating yourself up because of the quality of music your project(s) create - you gotta do a little soul searching and figure out if the problem is "in your head" and the result of unrealistic expectations.

If it's simply an issue that you're simply not satisfied with the production quality of the recordings you've made - no you are not alone.

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Is your issue with the quality of the music you create - or is it that the production quality of the stuff you've recorded falls far short of the music it's trying to capture?

The bulk of my gigging is split between two cover acts - one is a male fronted 6 piece, the other a female fronted 8 piece with horns (Sax, Trombone, Trumpet/Flugelhorn). Both acts consistently deliver pretty decent performances - unfortunately, nothing we've captured in terms of live recordings comes close to what I consider "demo quality" recordings. I've listened to hours and hours of our live recordings - and while they're good enough for me to listen to and judge our performance - there's always a glaring problem with the mix as captured by the recording that in my opinion renders it useless as a demo clip.

If you're beating yourself up because of the quality of music your project(s) create - you gotta do a little soul searching and figure out if the problem is "in your head" and the result of unrealistic expectations.

If it's simply an issue that you're simply not satisfied with the production quality of the recordings you've made - no you are not alone.

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There's a healthy amount of self-motivation I think any musician should have; we know how to appease our band mates, and our fans, but what about ourselves? We are our own worst critics.

But please realize the GIFT you have! You MAKE MUSIC! So... maybe lighten up on yourself a bit? smile.gif

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There's a healthy amount of self-motivation I think any musician should have; we know how to appease our band mates, and our fans, but what about ourselves? We are our own worst critics.

But please realize the GIFT you have! You MAKE MUSIC! So... maybe lighten up on yourself a bit? smile.gif

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Quote Originally Posted by SpaceNorman View Post
Is your issue with the quality of the music you create - or is it that the production quality of the stuff you've recorded falls far short of the music it's trying to capture?

The bulk of my gigging is split between two cover acts - one is a male fronted 6 piece, the other a female fronted 8 piece with horns (Sax, Trombone, Trumpet/Flugelhorn). Both acts consistently deliver pretty decent performances - unfortunately, nothing we've captured in terms of live recordings comes close to what I consider "demo quality" recordings. I've listened to hours and hours of our live recordings - and while they're good enough for me to listen to and judge our performance - there's always a glaring problem with the mix as captured by the recording that in my opinion renders it useless as a demo clip.

If you're beating yourself up because of the quality of music your project(s) create - you gotta do a little soul searching and figure out if the problem is "in your head" and the result of unrealistic expectations.

If it's simply an issue that you're simply not satisfied with the production quality of the recordings you've made - no you are not alone.
Sure, it's mostly production quality, but there is something of a level of unrealistic expectations as well. I think that in the end, I just need to step up and take more control over myself and my music. Maybe I will never be satisfied. I listen to my old stuff sometimes, and always have mixed feelings on it. In the studio, trying to improve on things has been a double-edged sword, making things worse as often as better. But yeah, in the end, production is my biggest issue.. I'm not an engineer, and don't know how to home record to create exactly what my imagination wants to hear lol.

I was mostly wondering how many others suffer this 'tortured musician' syndrome, or if it's more of a rare thing.
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Quote Originally Posted by SpaceNorman View Post
Is your issue with the quality of the music you create - or is it that the production quality of the stuff you've recorded falls far short of the music it's trying to capture?

The bulk of my gigging is split between two cover acts - one is a male fronted 6 piece, the other a female fronted 8 piece with horns (Sax, Trombone, Trumpet/Flugelhorn). Both acts consistently deliver pretty decent performances - unfortunately, nothing we've captured in terms of live recordings comes close to what I consider "demo quality" recordings. I've listened to hours and hours of our live recordings - and while they're good enough for me to listen to and judge our performance - there's always a glaring problem with the mix as captured by the recording that in my opinion renders it useless as a demo clip.

If you're beating yourself up because of the quality of music your project(s) create - you gotta do a little soul searching and figure out if the problem is "in your head" and the result of unrealistic expectations.

If it's simply an issue that you're simply not satisfied with the production quality of the recordings you've made - no you are not alone.
Sure, it's mostly production quality, but there is something of a level of unrealistic expectations as well. I think that in the end, I just need to step up and take more control over myself and my music. Maybe I will never be satisfied. I listen to my old stuff sometimes, and always have mixed feelings on it. In the studio, trying to improve on things has been a double-edged sword, making things worse as often as better. But yeah, in the end, production is my biggest issue.. I'm not an engineer, and don't know how to home record to create exactly what my imagination wants to hear lol.

I was mostly wondering how many others suffer this 'tortured musician' syndrome, or if it's more of a rare thing.
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I can relate Kramerguy. I bought a teac 3440 probably in the late 70's. I wrote some stuff and recorded it, but 4 tracks on 1/4" tape, no editing, no outboard gear. I was happy with a tune or two, but nothing else. Then when ADAT's came out I bought one, plus a 1604, and a dat machine. Never was happy with the results. Then pro tools le with a mac, etc. Kinda of breakthough because now I could edit, and after compiling work done on 2" machines, adats, and pro tools, and getting pro mixing and mastering, I finally released a cd in 2002. It sold pretty well at gigs and I got a little airplay, a little press, and it's still selling a little online. It doubled our gig fee. But at this point, I don't think any of that music represents what I'd like to represent. I've made other recordings that at the time I was pretty happy with, but time is a cruel judge, and although I can still appreciate the things I like in an old recording, I also still hear all the bits I wished were better. I don't listen to other people's music this way. I can just dig the parts that are cool, and gloss over what I think are less than perfect bits.

So, I'm starting again, having just bought a new PT setup. I don't know how long it's going to take to get something I like, or would like to put online. Maybe six months, maybe never.

In terms of live gigs, I've done many that I felt proud of. Somehow, I've never managed to capture, or have captured, much on video that I'm proud of. No one captured the really great moments on vid, or tape for that matter.

You are not alone. It's either I'm a perfectionist or I suck. I know for sure I'm not in the league of guys who can simply turn on a tape machine, play, and have it be great. I think we just have to keep going, and take satisfaction where and when it occurs, and continue to work on the stuff we feel has fallen short, be it recordings or live playing. I won't do sessions anymore, because I don't like what people have done to my tone, and even worse, had people extract bits of playing and re-assemble them into something I'd never play. Not worth the money to have to hear yourself sound bad......even if they think it's good.

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I can relate Kramerguy. I bought a teac 3440 probably in the late 70's. I wrote some stuff and recorded it, but 4 tracks on 1/4" tape, no editing, no outboard gear. I was happy with a tune or two, but nothing else. Then when ADAT's came out I bought one, plus a 1604, and a dat machine. Never was happy with the results. Then pro tools le with a mac, etc. Kinda of breakthough because now I could edit, and after compiling work done on 2" machines, adats, and pro tools, and getting pro mixing and mastering, I finally released a cd in 2002. It sold pretty well at gigs and I got a little airplay, a little press, and it's still selling a little online. It doubled our gig fee. But at this point, I don't think any of that music represents what I'd like to represent. I've made other recordings that at the time I was pretty happy with, but time is a cruel judge, and although I can still appreciate the things I like in an old recording, I also still hear all the bits I wished were better. I don't listen to other people's music this way. I can just dig the parts that are cool, and gloss over what I think are less than perfect bits.

So, I'm starting again, having just bought a new PT setup. I don't know how long it's going to take to get something I like, or would like to put online. Maybe six months, maybe never.

In terms of live gigs, I've done many that I felt proud of. Somehow, I've never managed to capture, or have captured, much on video that I'm proud of. No one captured the really great moments on vid, or tape for that matter.

You are not alone. It's either I'm a perfectionist or I suck. I know for sure I'm not in the league of guys who can simply turn on a tape machine, play, and have it be great. I think we just have to keep going, and take satisfaction where and when it occurs, and continue to work on the stuff we feel has fallen short, be it recordings or live playing. I won't do sessions anymore, because I don't like what people have done to my tone, and even worse, had people extract bits of playing and re-assemble them into something I'd never play. Not worth the money to have to hear yourself sound bad......even if they think it's good.

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live show vids are what they are. Odds are you will never see a show of ours where every memeber makes a clean pass through every song in a three hour show. Odds are that you will never see a show where anyone is sober enough out front to care.

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live show vids are what they are. Odds are you will never see a show of ours where every memeber makes a clean pass through every song in a three hour show. Odds are that you will never see a show where anyone is sober enough out front to care.

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I think you have hit on a very common set of feelings. I go thru the same thing. But as I have matured I have gotten my perspective back...and thats helped somewhat. Sure I want perfection..but what that is ..is very personel...and I shouldnt expect everyone to sign on to that. Like some of my demos I like....I like them warts and all..they fall out of time, I make up the words as I go etc etc..BUT THE FEEL IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED. Of course,the public doesnt want that..and If I am in their shoes neither do I..!! So there is some mental gymnastics to wok around. I suspect all the big dogs feel the same..but cant say it. I mean, seriously, who will buy your CD if you say "I think it came out kinda mediocre in spots...." I suspect pros realize that not only is their career riding on that CD so is everyone else in the organization (other musicians, booking people,managers, wife,kids etc)..so you do your best and keep a brave face when you think you could have done better.
Good news: Most people can never tell. Bad news..if ya let this stuff get to you...you'll never release anything.
best news: you have the control here: make some music, mull it over...release it if ya feel like it.
If it sells a trillion, send me a check. (LOL!!!!!)
GtrGeorge

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I think you have hit on a very common set of feelings. I go thru the same thing. But as I have matured I have gotten my perspective back...and thats helped somewhat. Sure I want perfection..but what that is ..is very personel...and I shouldnt expect everyone to sign on to that. Like some of my demos I like....I like them warts and all..they fall out of time, I make up the words as I go etc etc..BUT THE FEEL IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED. Of course,the public doesnt want that..and If I am in their shoes neither do I..!! So there is some mental gymnastics to wok around. I suspect all the big dogs feel the same..but cant say it. I mean, seriously, who will buy your CD if you say "I think it came out kinda mediocre in spots...." I suspect pros realize that not only is their career riding on that CD so is everyone else in the organization (other musicians, booking people,managers, wife,kids etc)..so you do your best and keep a brave face when you think you could have done better.
Good news: Most people can never tell. Bad news..if ya let this stuff get to you...you'll never release anything.
best news: you have the control here: make some music, mull it over...release it if ya feel like it.
If it sells a trillion, send me a check. (LOL!!!!!)
GtrGeorge

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I think you have hit on a very common set of feelings. I go thru the same thing. But as I have matured I have gotten my perspective back...and thats helped somewhat. Sure I want perfection..but what that is ..is very personel...and I shouldnt expect everyone to sign on to that. Like some of my demos I like....I like them warts and all..they fall out of time, I make up the words as I go etc etc..BUT THE FEEL IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED. Of course,the public doesnt want that..and If I am in their shoes neither do I..!! So there is some mental gymnastics to wok around. I suspect all the big dogs feel the same..but cant say it. I mean, seriously, who will buy your CD if you say "I think it came out kinda mediocre in spots...." I suspect pros realize that not only is their career riding on that CD so is everyone else in the organization (other musicians, booking people,managers, wife,kids etc)..so you do your best and keep a brave face when you think you could have done better.
Good news: Most people can never tell. Bad news..if ya let this stuff get to you...you'll never release anything.
best news: you have the control here: make some music, mull it over...release it if ya feel like it.
If it sells a trillion, send me a check. (LOL!!!!!)
GtrGeorge

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I think you have hit on a very common set of feelings. I go thru the same thing. But as I have matured I have gotten my perspective back...and thats helped somewhat. Sure I want perfection..but what that is ..is very personel...and I shouldnt expect everyone to sign on to that. Like some of my demos I like....I like them warts and all..they fall out of time, I make up the words as I go etc etc..BUT THE FEEL IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED. Of course,the public doesnt want that..and If I am in their shoes neither do I..!! So there is some mental gymnastics to wok around. I suspect all the big dogs feel the same..but cant say it. I mean, seriously, who will buy your CD if you say "I think it came out kinda mediocre in spots...." I suspect pros realize that not only is their career riding on that CD so is everyone else in the organization (other musicians, booking people,managers, wife,kids etc)..so you do your best and keep a brave face when you think you could have done better.
Good news: Most people can never tell. Bad news..if ya let this stuff get to you...you'll never release anything.
best news: you have the control here: make some music, mull it over...release it if ya feel like it.
If it sells a trillion, send me a check. (LOL!!!!!)
GtrGeorge

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There are lots of reasons to try to get the best recording (audio and video) that you can, given the technology that's current, and the equipment that you have access to. It could be about promotion, direct sales, or simply nostalgia when you're old and gray. I remember a few performances from long ago that knocked my socks off at the time, but nothing was hooked up. I also remember a tape I made that included a really good five part harmony of "Going in Circles" . . . . and now it's lost!

I mentioned investing in a multitrack recording mixer in another thread and was told that it might not get used much. I think it would. Even if you don't listen to it often, and even if you don't have the training to make a good mix, at least you would have the raw material to work with. Get better yourself or get someone else to do it.

I'm in the habit now of setting up both a video and audio recorder, and have actually enjoyed learning how to process what I get.

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There are lots of reasons to try to get the best recording (audio and video) that you can, given the technology that's current, and the equipment that you have access to. It could be about promotion, direct sales, or simply nostalgia when you're old and gray. I remember a few performances from long ago that knocked my socks off at the time, but nothing was hooked up. I also remember a tape I made that included a really good five part harmony of "Going in Circles" . . . . and now it's lost!

I mentioned investing in a multitrack recording mixer in another thread and was told that it might not get used much. I think it would. Even if you don't listen to it often, and even if you don't have the training to make a good mix, at least you would have the raw material to work with. Get better yourself or get someone else to do it.

I'm in the habit now of setting up both a video and audio recorder, and have actually enjoyed learning how to process what I get.

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If you are willing to spend a few bucks (a Grammy winning producer from the past for $100 per song for example) you can have various pros review your stuff. You can also have pros redo your tracks for comparison. You will get a pretty clear list of issues from them as far as production stuff is concerned. Personally, given what some people spend on studio time, I think this is a lot better investment then a bunch of studio time without a plan.

Personally I find heavy use of recorded practice runs (a week or two) separated by a couple of off months doing something else entirely helpful to getting the sound you want. The "off time" gets the song out of your head enough to have critical "fresh ears" when you go back and listen. I go through this cycle until after a few months away what I hear on my recordings suits my ears 100% - then its time to do the production.

Some songs and tracks will always be better than others and you have to accept this too.

Good recording skills take a long time to learn too - its a skill as difficult as being a musician in many ways. While you can like what you "hear" while playing it its a lot harder to get that same "like what you hear" sound recorded. A lot of people think buying a simple recorder is all you need to do but they are wrong.

A good mix guy is important these days too - they can mix your tracks and get more out of them than you can some times - and sometimes not.

The "Fall to Earth" sig link is what I came out with for my own stuff. I took about 7 years to complete. I hope to do another one next year. I did all the recording and about 1/2 the mixing.

Its a process and road to travel - if you are committed you have to publish something at some point. If you can't let go enough to publish at some point you are probably too anal.

Very few artists pop out with a really great first CD.

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If you are willing to spend a few bucks (a Grammy winning producer from the past for $100 per song for example) you can have various pros review your stuff. You can also have pros redo your tracks for comparison. You will get a pretty clear list of issues from them as far as production stuff is concerned. Personally, given what some people spend on studio time, I think this is a lot better investment then a bunch of studio time without a plan.

Personally I find heavy use of recorded practice runs (a week or two) separated by a couple of off months doing something else entirely helpful to getting the sound you want. The "off time" gets the song out of your head enough to have critical "fresh ears" when you go back and listen. I go through this cycle until after a few months away what I hear on my recordings suits my ears 100% - then its time to do the production.

Some songs and tracks will always be better than others and you have to accept this too.

Good recording skills take a long time to learn too - its a skill as difficult as being a musician in many ways. While you can like what you "hear" while playing it its a lot harder to get that same "like what you hear" sound recorded. A lot of people think buying a simple recorder is all you need to do but they are wrong.

A good mix guy is important these days too - they can mix your tracks and get more out of them than you can some times - and sometimes not.

The "Fall to Earth" sig link is what I came out with for my own stuff. I took about 7 years to complete. I hope to do another one next year. I did all the recording and about 1/2 the mixing.

Its a process and road to travel - if you are committed you have to publish something at some point. If you can't let go enough to publish at some point you are probably too anal.

Very few artists pop out with a really great first CD.

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Quote Originally Posted by Kramerguy View Post
I was mostly wondering how many others suffer this 'tortured musician' syndrome, or if it's more of a rare thing.
Fortunately, I'm not afflicted with "tortured musician" syndrome - although I've known lots of players who've had it to one degree or another. The inability to be happy where you are - while aspiring to progress to somewhere else is incredibly debilitating. I've seen lots of guys who I've considered talented musicians go through their musical lives miserable and ultimately implode because of it. I'm fortunate in that my personal satisfaction is derived from progress rather than place. Learning to be happy wherever you are is critical to being happy, period.

Said another way - rather than beating myself up about the quality of music I ain't playing, the gigs I ain't getting and the money I ain't earning - I keep myself excited about music by taking satisfaction in each step forward. Knowing that I'm able to play something today that I couldn't play yesterday, that my projects are tighter today than yesterday, that we're drawing crowds that are consistently larger and more enthusiastic than the gig before (even if that crowd is in a {censored}hole local bar)) - is enough to keep me excited about playing.
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Quote Originally Posted by Kramerguy View Post
I was mostly wondering how many others suffer this 'tortured musician' syndrome, or if it's more of a rare thing.
Fortunately, I'm not afflicted with "tortured musician" syndrome - although I've known lots of players who've had it to one degree or another. The inability to be happy where you are - while aspiring to progress to somewhere else is incredibly debilitating. I've seen lots of guys who I've considered talented musicians go through their musical lives miserable and ultimately implode because of it. I'm fortunate in that my personal satisfaction is derived from progress rather than place. Learning to be happy wherever you are is critical to being happy, period.

Said another way - rather than beating myself up about the quality of music I ain't playing, the gigs I ain't getting and the money I ain't earning - I keep myself excited about music by taking satisfaction in each step forward. Knowing that I'm able to play something today that I couldn't play yesterday, that my projects are tighter today than yesterday, that we're drawing crowds that are consistently larger and more enthusiastic than the gig before (even if that crowd is in a {censored}hole local bar)) - is enough to keep me excited about playing.
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Quote Originally Posted by Kramerguy View Post
I'm just not good enough to create something truly great.
That's a pretty high bar to set....

Why not stick with "Here's my best for now" and then keep working to improve on your best, whether that's chops, or production values, or editing, or songwriting, or whatever.

I don't see any particular need to keep pulling things off your various profiles. After all, you HAVE to be better than
.
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Quote Originally Posted by Kramerguy View Post
I'm just not good enough to create something truly great.
That's a pretty high bar to set....

Why not stick with "Here's my best for now" and then keep working to improve on your best, whether that's chops, or production values, or editing, or songwriting, or whatever.

I don't see any particular need to keep pulling things off your various profiles. After all, you HAVE to be better than
.
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