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Should I just say no to this gig?


etcetra

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So I get asked to sub for a gig 2 weeks ago. I agreed to do it and that weekend I was told that the next rehearsal is in 3 days, and I got a setlist of 20 songs. While the songs aren't technically difficult to play, they are latin pop songs and it's one of those things that you just need to spend time with the music. What makes it so tricky is that the songs are LONG. You are talking about 5-10min per song and have sections that repeats for anywhere between 0:30-2 minutes with hits and other stuff at the end, and you might see whole bunch of that per song. There are also latin patterns and stuff I do need to learn and be familiarize myself with. Out of the 20 songs, I got music for 2/3 of them and 1/3 of them I have to learn them off records. And as expected, the charts have a lot of mistakes. A lot of the hits are missing and some of the repeats and stuff are just plain wrong and I had to make my own chart too. I've had a lot of experience writing charts and whoever did the chart would get yelled at by my arranging teacher for making charts that are difficult to read(i.e 6 measure per line where he could have easily done 8 measures, making it much easier to follow the form).

 

At this point I start to realize that this is way more work then I would expect for a sub gig at a restaurant.

 

The rehearsal went ok, I know some of the people and they were very nice, but it was apparent the bandleader was not happy with what i was doing(I later found out he is known for vibeing people). He was frustrated with me not getting stuff right, and getting lost, and I(or the bandmates) had to explain to him that the chart was wrong. Chart being hard to read didn't help either. By the time I was half way through the rehearsal, I was exhausted from information overload. After the rehearsal I've talked to whole bunch of my friends and they've pretty much told me what the bandleader is doing is not fair, and the amount of work that is asked of me is not worth the money and I should get out. I figured since I've learned most of the music already I'd just put up with it.

 

Fast forward 1 week, I get a message from the band member(the one I am subbing) that I may have to learn 2-3 more songs today. This is late night before the rehearsal This time I told her that we have 20 songs, that are 5-10min long so I don't see why the bandleader needs to add more material and I can't be expected to learn the music now. Again, the charts are wrong and you are talking about 5-10min song that I need to take a look and fix, as well also patterns I have to learn. I was told that he might cut some songs from the 1st rehearsal and this is just the way the band leader works. The band is tolerating it, but I am not sure how much I can put up with this as a sub.

 

It's a awkward situation because depending on how the rehearsal goes, I feel very tempted to just walk away from the gig, but at the same time, I know many of the people in the band and they're are nice people, and it will be very difficult for them if I just leave, as replacement for a gig like this is hard to find.

 

So what do you guys make of this situation? This is not the first time where I walk into a situation where I realize it's a lot more work than I signed up for, as I get more detail about the gig right before or during the rehearsal.. and by then it's much harder to get out, because you've already rehearsed with them.

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If you've already made the commitment, I think it's probably best to gut it out and do the gig. That shows everyone else on the team that you're a team player and follow through, even in difficult circumstances.

 

The last minute substitutions are unreasonable, but unless everyone else is willing to say so too, there's probably little or nothing you can do about that.

 

Yes, the leader is a bozo. Unfortunately you're going to run into some of them in this business. I still think you should do the gig... but remember that about the leader the next time you're asked to do this sub gig. And also remember that not only will the word get around about your diligence and responsibility, but also about the attitude of the band leader too.

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Agree with Phil

 

When you said "I Do, I Will, Heck Yes" or however you answered, your name and reputation became part of the equation. In the end you may well have a rough night and it looks like much of it will not be your fault. Regardless, this situation demonstrates more than your musical abilities.

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You said you would do it and now you have to. However, I think that since you are a sub and it is a lot of work to learn a bunch of unfamiliar songs (been there) you, 1, don;t need to be perfect and 2, the band/band leader should be considerate and keep things as simple as possible.

 

Last time we had a substitute player we cut out a lot of songs that we would normally have played just to make it easier for him.

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I agree with ski219. What you can learn from this is to check out what you are being asked to do before you commit! I've been in the same situation, and after I heard what they were doing, the number of songs I had to learn and the degree of difficulty, which would equate to a ton of time I didn't necessarily have to begin with, I said thanks, but no thanks.

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Thank you guys for all the input. I am probably going to stick with this since I am pretty much ready to do the gig at this point. I guess I wanted to know at what point one should draw the line if you think the person has gone too far, as well as figuring out ways to avoid situations like this. Sometimes it can be hard to tell, and in this case there was a lot of confusion between what the person I was subbing for expected vs what the band leader expected. Also, the person I was subbing gave me the set list and told me some of the songs I already know and chords are fairly easy, so I assumed that I didn't have to worry too much in terms of arrangement.

 

As far as getting enough info to get out of a gig early, I find it difficult because people here are either not forthcoming or lazy about giving proper info, and people tend not to speak up, leaving me in situation where I am the only one asking for proper info(of course everyone else follows suit as soon as I mention something). This includes setlist, workload and even pay situation. I've made a post before about the band leader with unrealistic expectation and we had this one show where the guy in charge(not the band leader) wanted to do 60+ hours of rehearsal for one show that paid equivalent to a wedding gig. The guy was clueless and a lot of that time went to waste, and he was even telling us we may need to add more time. I found out about the rehearsal expectations right before we were supposed to start rehearsing, which was few weeks after our first meeting and I've already started learning the music at that point. One of the band member left the gig and the band because of the workload and he was not happy about them finalizing the rehearsal time without consulting him(he has a day job) and I felt like I should have followed suit at that point.

 

I guess one option would be to give them a deadline with these expectation, and if I don't get proper info until that deadline I should just turn down the gig, but nobody here does that and I am afraid that can be seen as a dick move.

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Update,

 

So I went to rehearse last night, turns out that he is adding another song, and its by hard the most difficult arrangement so far. I told him that the piano player I am subbing for did give me the music in case the band does them but never got a clear confirmation that I am actually doing it. Needless to say the charts have many error in it and it's not well written. The piano player was there to tell me where all the hits are and stuff, but frankly I am not too concerned about getting every one of them right. Heck, I checked the recording and I know for certain the piano isn't doing some of the hits that I was asked to do.

 

I don't think I am going talk to the guy, to him, a pro should be able to handle these things. He is complaining to the band about relying too much on the music and how the band should be learning/playing these music by ear. Maybe the musicians he was around in his country was like that, but this is a different country a nobody in the band grew up listening to latin music or know the repritore by heart. Ive taken time to look at the new music and did what I can but at this point, I am just going to do what I reasonably can and move on. If I get hired to do the same music, cool, if not, not big deal.

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Our keyboard player keeps asking about these songs here & there. We don't get much chance to practice. The song isn't that great and has a violin and a banjoin it.

 

We have neither.

 

"I have a banjo" she says.

 

Yeah, no.

 

I tell her the bass player put the kibosh on them. The songs better be killer if we are adding them.

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I see that this post in almost a month old, but I just read it. I had a similar situation a few months back; I was asked to sit in with an established group to play on a couple of songs that I had never heard. Both songs were on the group's new CD and I thought they were both originals. A CD was not provided, and the group leader did not want to practice, but wanted to do a run-through just prior to the performance. This was with three days notice. I finally was able to download the CD from CD Baby, after waiting two days for him to get one to me, and listened to the two songs several times. One song was a straight forward bass-line (I was playing bass), the other one however was a very complex bass-line.

 

I made two mistakes in this instance; first, I usually turn down jobs where the group leader refuses to rehearse the material I am expected to play. Second, I made the assumption that the group leader would have either the printed sheet music, or at the least, a chord chart for me when I arrived prior to the performance. Well, he provided neither and was quite disappointed that I did not have the complex song's bass-line memorized and ready to go. It honestly never occurred to me that nothing in print form would be provided. I came to learn later that the complex song was not an original, but the group's version of the song has a vastly different and much more complex bass-line than the original recording.

 

I don't know who played the bass part on the complex song for their CD, but whoever it was did not play it on this occasion. It was made clear to me that they expected the bass part to match their CD version exactly. As you can imagine, I felt quite annoyed that I was being viewed so critically, when the group leader provided me with nothing except an invitation to play. Had I known that I was expected to learn the complex bass part by playing along with the CD, I may have been able to do it. However, by the time I realized that a copy of the CD would not be forthcoming from the group leader, I had only one day left in which to work it out; so who knows if I could have succeeded.

 

I have been playing bass for a long time, and sometimes the bass parts are simple and straight forward. Other times they are not, and require a number of run-through practices with the band. I also play mandolin and guitar, and I think there are times when folks who don't play bass think bass parts are always simple and playing bass doesn't require any musical skill. Bass is certainly not as involved as some other instruments, but it is still usually an important part of the finished product.

 

My original plan seems to be my best choice; refuse jobs where there will be no practice sessions.

 

One_Dude

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I'm experienced enough to know exactly how that gig would have turned out and I wouldn't have taken it. However if it was sold differently and I got to the first rehearsal and vibed it, I would have walked right there. LIFES TOO SHORT!!!

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To the OP, there is nothing wrong in going to the leader and saying 'hey, the charts I have are incomplete, do you have better ones somewhere, and that you are programming a lot of material to be learned in a short period of time. Would you consider not performing song x and song y so I can focus on songs a-w?' Tha tis not unprofessional nor unreasonable. If the leader says 'you must learn them all perfectly', say, 'I can't possible master all these in x # of days, but I will get as close as I can in the amount of time I have.'

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OP how did the gig go?

 

 

Hi guys, I've been busy and sorry for not responding for a while. I figured I should do an update

 

The gig went ok and I've subbed for the band a whole bunch of times already. Now that I feel comfortable with their set list, I was pretty happy to work with them on semi-regular basis. After all, it's really rare to have a chance to play their genre of music(latin pop) here and it's good learning experience.

 

However things changed for the worse last rehearsal. I was asked to do learn a new song and I did what I could after I got the music 2 days before the gig. As always there are mistakes in the chart and I did what I could to fix them. During the rehearsal the bandleader said I was not playing this one part right(the part that was written wrong) and asked me to listen to it again and change it. It's a complex montuno part with right/left hand cross-rhythm and the recording is in a different key on top of it, so IMO it's not something you can just listen and pick up right away. It's also one of those situations where I've learned that part slightly differently, which makes it harder to re-adjust . We ran the song again and I couldn't get that part.. the band leader asked me to write it down, and he started bitching about how musicians here are not professional enough, how stuff like this would never happen in places like Japan and how even kids there can do better than the band now. The rant went for 5 minutes. I didn't want to start a shouting contest but I felt like calling him out on his bull****************, because if this was really a professional situation like it is in Japan, I would NEVER have to learn that part on my own because the chart was not written correctly. I checked the recording later and whatever he was asking me to do is not whatever the piano player was doing in the recording either. At this point, I am not quite sure what he wants exactly.

 

At this point I think I am going to turn down the sub gig from now on. This is not the first time I was put in spot to learn a complex part from the recording and change keys on spot. Maybe the guys who he used to play with in his country can pick it up right away, because they play latin music their entire life and those parts are familiar to them(same reason why I can pick up jazz runs/chord changes very quickly) but I can't and if he is going to complain about me not having that quality, they should find someone else.

 

Daddaymack,

 

I've already mentioned the charts and he doesn't have anything else he can offer. with, which makes his tantrum all the more unacceptable. This is not the first time I got the sheet music on short notice (1-2 days before the gig) and I have to squeeze in time to learn parts and go over the charts to fix mistakes...I've already mentioned this and he knows what I am working with and I didn't feel like bringing up again after that incident. I did spend good deal of time working on the music and I did everything else right except for that part, and if he is complaining about my output then there isn't much I can do and it's time for him to find someone else who is more capable.

 

Unfortunately stuff like that happens A LOT here, and I've dealt wise even worse.

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Tell him his leadership isn't professional with these incorrect half assed charts. You can do it with 2 days notice as long as the charts are correct. I'm playing what's on the charts. The fact that it's wrong is your fault, not mine.

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Tell him his leadership isn't professional with these incorrect half assed charts. You can do it with 2 days notice as long as the charts are correct. I'm playing what's on the charts. The fact that it's wrong is your fault' date=' not mine.[/quote']

 

 

What bothers me is that this guy really can't do anything about it on his own. He paid someone to do charts for him and the music he got was bad, and now he is depending on his musicians to transcribe the music. I am guessing the reason the music comes late and is wrong is because the piano player is transcribing her part to give it to me and she didn't use a proper chart up until this point.

 

Which is all the more reason why I think him lashing out on the quality of the chart is ridiculous to me. The gig doesn't pay enough to justify the work, and musicians are going out of their way to learn and write the music down and bandleader is bitching to them about how the charts aren't professional enough.

 

I also get this feeling that he thinks a real pro wouldn't need charts should be able to just be able to pick all this music by ear. He has complained about people using charts in general too. He has also complained about band not being able to follow him if he started singing without telling them where he is. He told us how a "pro" should be able to use their ears and just pick it up no matter where he is. I don't know about you guys, but in most pro situations, people actually tell you where they are before they start.

 

Bottom line is, I really don't think he'll accept that a lot of it is his fault and he is going to blame the shortcoming of musician's ability instead. And I don't know if I want to put up with getting yelled at while dealing with this kind of situation.

 

 

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What a clod! The bandleader sounds like he would expect you to come in cold and nail the piano solo on Do the Conga (Miami Sound Machine) after a couple listens. And it also sounds like he can't do that type thing himself. Must be a horn player (just guessing and also the best instrument to pick on without offending anybody here lol)! But good for you to take a crash course in Latin pop, sounds like the experience gained will come in handy down the road.

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What a clod! The bandleader sounds like he would expect you to come in cold and nail the piano solo on Do the Conga (Miami Sound Machine) after a couple listens. And it also sounds like he can't do that type thing himself. Must be a horn player (just guessing and also the best instrument to pick on without offending anybody here lol)! But good for you to take a crash course in Latin pop' date=' sounds like the experience gained will come in handy down the road.[/quote']

 

 

Probably more like the piano intro part not the actual solo :D I can probably learn something like than in like 30 minutes-1hr if I can use a program to slow it down, but not in few minutes while changing keys off record. I can see how the people he work with in his home country can, because they have that style ingrained in them.. kind of like doing riffs in styles you are familiar with. I understand him wanting the musicians he works with here to reach that level and I am ok with him pointing out my limitations and what I need to work on, but that's something you can do without getting frustrated and bitching about the quality of musicians you hired. For a lot of the band members (we had 3 new people/sub last rehearsal), this is the first time in their lives playing in an actual latin pop band.

 

The bandleader is a vocalist btw.

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I'm starting to think you're a bit of a glutton for punishment. :) At the end of the day, music for me is a passion, and if I don't get enjoyment out of it, I'm outta there. Every gig and every practice should be fun and a reward for the hours I put in on my own. But that's just me.

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I've been through the same type thing with other bandleaders- people who may have been driven, talented and had a substantial, legit presence in the industry but were control freaks and lacked people skills. A lot of times they tend to seek out more inexperienced, "green" players who they think have some talent that they can shape and mold. But I got tired of being shaped and molded, find your lump of clay elsewhere lol.

 

And I wouldn't know a montuno if it bit me in the *ss. Although I'm guessing that's one in the MSM song I mentioned, right before the piano solo. Digging up an old Keyboard mag Latin piano master class to find out.

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FitchFY,

 

Haha you may be right :D I wouldn't put up with this much if it wasn't for the fact that I am learning from it. I've heard other "professional" latin bands in the area, and frankly none of them sounds right and and this bandleader is the first guy that I met that really know what he is talking about. So I guess I am weighing in the benefit of learning vs putting up with crap. If this is going to make me a better musician, then maybe it's worth sticking to it.. and I've actually had fun playing with the band up until that incident.

 

I don't know how other members put up with it.. they've been there for couple of years and they told me it used to be a lot worse :)

 

pinkfloydcramer61

 

Your comment is spot on. I've also been working with this drummer from NY recentlyand I think both the Latin bandleader and the drummer fit that description. The drummer hands down has the best swing feel than anyone I know, and I've learned a lot working with him and figuring out how he thinks about time feel. He is also temperamental, and I know a lot of local musicians avoid working with him. He doesn't hesitate to tell someone if he thinks their time feel is a problem and he does get frustrated sometimes. It's a bit of a complicated issue, because while it may be rude to call other musicians out like that, he is usually spot on with his assessment. The difference between him and the latin guy is that the drummer seem to realize that his temper is a problem and has started apologizing lately, whereas the latin guy doesn't and thinks his reaction is appropriate to the band not meeting his expectations.

 

In the end it's about what you are getting out of it. I will probably continue working with the drummer, but once I learn what I need to learn working in that situation, I can see myself moving on. As far as Latin pop music is concerned, I don't know if I like the music to put up with that much.

 

 

BTW Montuno is the basically a repeating piano pattern, the one that the piano player plays on the intro of that video. It can be very tricky to pick it up at times as there is a lot of synchopation, a lot of it requires getting the exact notes. something like this

 

 

and once you have handle for it, you can do variations and do something as complex as this

 

 

and there are different piano patterns like this depending on different latin styles(Salsa, Merengue..etc)

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