Jump to content

My band changed, almost overnight


wesg

Recommended Posts

  • Members

And I blame "Sweet Caroline"

 

The guys are all talking about songs that people love, are considering medleys, etc. It's stopped being about songs they like, and started being about the crowd.

 

I've been gently steering in this direction for a couple of years - finding excuses to put BEG and MS on the set list, for example - but the response we got form Sweet Caroline (and the dance floor clearing on a few others) last week seems to have put them over the top.

 

I'm ecstatic. My favourite venue just booked us for three dates next year, and we are booked solid through March right now. We still have a long way to go before we are a top-tier band, but are doing a better job every gig!

 

Wes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I also got the bass player and front man out for an interesting bar-show on Friday. The band was in an 86-cap room, but they are a "festival band", together for ~25 years, who decided to play a bar show basically because they missed playing out and wanted to see their friends.

 

It was an interesting education, their act - a power trio with a singer - was super-tight and flowed really nicely from song to song...no breaks at all, except set breaks. No set list, and no visible on-stage song negotiation either.

 

I think one of the things we have to get rid of is the "thank you very much, okay, here's one from so-and-so" and "okay, are you guys ready?" at the end of each song. I'd like to get to the point where the cymbals are still shimmering from the last song when the next one starts. Our between-song time is about 15% of what it was a year ago, but there is still room for improvement.

 

You guys got any tricks for getting there? I'm thinking of proposing something like: "if you're NOT ready, raise your hand" - then making sure we all remember who starts which songs (set list?).

 

Wes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Seeing other/better bands is always great. I remember after struggling for a long time to move my band forward with suggestions and ideas what it really took was taking the guys out to see another band. Suddenly "oh....THAT'S how it's done!" became so much more obvious to everyone.

 

As far as tricks for getting into songs quicker? Presuming your drummer is the one who counts off most songs, then he's gotta be on board with the idea. If you're standing around waiting for the drummer to be ready, you'll be standing around a lot. Best thing to do is set your setlist up in 3-4 song blocks that always get played back-to-back-to-back. Then soon the band will learn to hear the songs that way. And they'll know once the first song of the block is started, there's no stopping until the end of it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

We're going to try running this week's rehearsal in 3-song blocks with zero breaks, we have two rehearsal before the next show, so there's definitely time to make the improvement.

 

Something else I've noticed about how my band has changed -- three years ago, song selection centered around finding songs that other bands did not play. This week, I am seeing suggestions like "Band Y did song X at venue Z and they loved it. We should learn it!"

 

Unlike the prevailing attitude when the band was formed, I'm not worried about sounding like other bands, we're one of the few 5 pieces in the area and we have quite a lot songs that other bands don't or can't do. I just want to make folks dance, because that's pretty my sole criterion for deciding if a song works or not. :D

 

Okay, there's one other criterion, last time we did "Don't Fear The Reaper" there were guys on the dance floor playing air guitar to the bridge solo. That was pretty awesome.

 

Wes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yeah, I can't see the point in worrying too much about what other bands play. Unless it's maybe some other band's signature tune that they knock out of the park and play it in the same venue you play...otherwise? Those songs become "standards" for a reason. Because people like to hear them.

 

I wouldn't open a restaurant and NOT serve chicken wings just because the guy down the street has chicken wings. Especially if people might come in my place looking for wings. I'd just do my best to make sure I make 'em better than he does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

We've got many of the "3 song" blocks worked out pretty well. One of the things I wish we'd do more of is allowing tunes to start whenever the player who actually starts the tune is ready - with the rest of us joining in a couple of measures into the song. I've been in bands where the drummer would kick into a groove immediately after a song ended to segue us into the next tune. Somebody would "DJ" a few words of thanks and/or an introduction into the next tune ... the rest of us would count ourselves into the tune as soon as everybody was ready. It was effective ... the music never stopped ... and we made time for guitar changes, patch changes, etc. - without it killing the dance floor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
We've got many of the "3 song" blocks worked out pretty well. One of the things I wish we'd do more of is allowing tunes to start whenever the player who actually starts the tune is ready - with the rest of us joining in a couple of measures into the song. I've been in bands where the drummer would kick into a groove immediately after a song ended to segue us into the next tune. Somebody would "DJ" a few words of thanks and/or an introduction into the next tune ... the rest of us would count ourselves into the tune as soon as everybody was ready. It was effective ... the music never stopped ... and we made time for guitar changes, patch changes, etc. - without it killing the dance floor.

 

Good tip!

 

That's something we do a lot of and is very easy to do. Another thing you just have to get into the habit of doing. Typical example: our drummer always goes right into the beat of "Love Shack" but it might take several measures before I'm ready to start singing, for whatever reason. No problem. Certainly beats dead air until he's waiting for me to be ready. Or I'll start the chunka-chunka guitar rhythm for "Your Love". Singer often takes a few go-arounds to take a swig of water or whatever the hell it is she's doing over there. No problem. A couple of "put your hands together!" and the whole thing seems planned to the audience. And again, sure beats dead air or just talking to the crowd.

 

Ton of songs you can do that with just as long as the guy who starts the song is willing to jump right into it and just hold his place until the rest fall into line.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

That works great with a well rehearsed band . . . BUT. . . . I remember playing a wedding a couple of years ago where the leader/bass player/singer went right into a bass line at the end of a song. Problem was, I didn't recognize it. (He had a 900 song list - no kidding.) I was on the other side of the stage and it took a couple relay messages to let me know what the hell he was playing! THEN I punch in the presets . . . . THEN we can start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

... just as long as the guy who starts the song is willing to jump right into it and just hold his place until the rest fall into line.

 

The whole "it takes forever to start a song" thing usually drives me nutz ... if for any reason, simply because it's something that should so easy to fix. I worked with a drummer who insisted on making eye contact with everybody on stage before he'd start the count ... then he'd start clicking his sticks for a few beats to get the tempo in his head ... then he'd count the "official" intro count. Getting songs started took what seemed like forever !!!!

 

I waste little time on the songs that I start. I've usually called up the patches for the next song on everything except the board I'm actually playing during the outro of the previous song - and am ready to hit the button to make the last change as soon as the previous song finishes. I take a deep breath, get the tempo in my head ... and then start it. I don't need to look at anybody, I don't need to count anything for the rest of the group - I just start playing. If anybody needs to make changes (i.e., tune, change guitars, etc.) - they can jump in when they're ready. I'm going to repeat the intro until the rest of the band joins in.

 

Once a band starts waiting until everybody confirms they're ready - the down time grows and grows. Best to nip that crap in the bud and just start the tune. All it takes is a couple of train wreck intros before everybody gets the message that there's not going to be any dawdling between songs - and starts finding ways to ensure that they're ready. Better to survive a couple of train wreck intros and have that message get sent than to live with unnecessary dead space between tunes.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Kramer - Even if I wasn't selling beer, I am personally more interested in entertaining the audience than my band mates. For me, that's the end-game - I'm an entertainer. If you're smiling and dancing I've accomplished my goal.

 

SpaceNorman - I actually pushed like that and caused a trainwreck intro like you described on our last gig. I took it apart and we'll fix it tomorrow. It's one of those deals where there is an 8-bar building vamp on the I chord before it goes to the IV. Not everybody came in at the proscribed time and I changed to the IV chord before the bass player did...ugly.

 

One changeover I have a tough time with is A Whiter Shade Of Pale for some reason. Lower 004430001 Upper 688600000 soft slow 2nd. It takes me like 5 seconds to set the organ up, and I need both hands for the first note. I try now to change the organ's upper manual one song ahead and not use that manual for the rest of the song. I expect this will improve once I switch to playing console organs (very soon) as I'll have two sets of drawbars at my disposal. I also have a bit of a hard time remembering which patches to dial up on which keyboard sometimes. I know you use OnSong, but that's not my jam...I'm thinking of adding an extra column to the set-list spreadsheet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
This thread makes me sad. We are nothing but beer salesmen.

 

I've never been directly concerned with selling drinks. I've always just assumed that if the band was doing its job---entertaining the people; drawing/holding the crowd---that a good ring at the bar would naturally follow.

 

 

 

whats sad about that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Members

 

I've never been directly concerned with selling drinks. I've always just assumed that if the band was doing its job---entertaining the people; drawing/holding the crowd---that a good ring at the bar would naturally follow.

 

 

 

whats sad about that?

 

Pretty much my more recent realization that my musical interests aren't aligned with my current cover band, in the sense that I do want to play out, I enjoy playing in bars, but barfing up the same old garbage that bands have been barfing up the last 30 years, or even the same modern songs.. all the same.. the crowd doesn't want to hear great music, they want the lowest common denominator, pop-rock garbage that's on the radio.

 

Not to be down on it, I know the score, I've been doing this for years. It's a more recent personal revelation that I no longer want to perform this music for these people. I no longer want to be micro-managed by an unrealistic bar manager who has to ask me while we are still setting up why our crowd hasn't packed the place yet, and then later have to (try to) explain why half our crowd didn't show up. It's become ponderous and when I read that a band is playing songs they don't even necessarily like or want to play, it does make me sad in a way. The compromise itself I guess is what I meant by that. I have certainly justified my own compromises throughout the years of playing covers, but more recently, I'm simply starting to question that.

 

This isn't the despondent woe-is-me response you might think though- these thoughts and revelations I've been having are a result of participating in a 'Daryl's house' type open-jam every week for the last 1.5 years, where I've been playing extremely deep covers, hashed out originals, and a lot of random improv with some of the best players I've ever met- It's always something or someone new each week, or a return of someone great from a former jam. I get so much pleasure and enjoyment from this that playing in a bar band has become a decreasingly pleasurable experience.

 

So that's what I meant, I'm good, just questioning a lot of things right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Pretty much my more recent realization that my musical interests aren't aligned with my current cover band, in the sense that I do want to play out, I enjoy playing in bars, but barfing up the same old garbage that bands have been barfing up the last 30 years, or even the same modern songs.. all the same.. the crowd doesn't want to hear great music, they want the lowest common denominator, pop-rock garbage that's on the radio.

 

Not to be down on it, I know the score, I've been doing this for years. It's a more recent personal revelation that I no longer want to perform this music for these people. I no longer want to be micro-managed by an unrealistic bar manager who has to ask me while we are still setting up why our crowd hasn't packed the place yet, and then later have to (try to) explain why half our crowd didn't show up. It's become ponderous and when I read that a band is playing songs they don't even necessarily like or want to play, it does make me sad in a way. The compromise itself I guess is what I meant by that. I have certainly justified my own compromises throughout the years of playing covers, but more recently, I'm simply starting to question that.

 

This isn't the despondent woe-is-me response you might think though- these thoughts and revelations I've been having are a result of participating in a 'Daryl's house' type open-jam every week for the last 1.5 years, where I've been playing extremely deep covers, hashed out originals, and a lot of random improv with some of the best players I've ever met- It's always something or someone new each week, or a return of someone great from a former jam. I get so much pleasure and enjoyment from this that playing in a bar band has become a decreasingly pleasurable experience.

 

So that's what I meant, I'm good, just questioning a lot of things right now.

 

Hey, I feel ya.

 

​Playing in a public venue is always going to be a balance between the needs/desires of the band, the venue, and the audience. When all are on the same page, it's all good. But when not? It was easy to knock those gigs out of the park when we were the same age as the audience and liked the same music. I think I was about 35 when I first started feeling the signs that I was aging-out of the club scene. By the time I was 45 it was past time to exit. The hunt for those little niches that still existed where band, venue and audience were all on the same page no longer resulted in enough good times to make it all worth it for me.

 

​I guess maybe that's why busking is so popular. You don't have the needs of a venue to contend with (unless the cops move you along, anyway), you can play what you want the way you want it, and if people like you they stick around and applaud and toss you a few dollars, and if not, they move along.

 

​The "Daryl's House" type jam thing you found sounds way cool. You gotta enjoy what you're doing. What else is the point, really?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Members
I also have a bit of a hard time remembering which patches to dial up on which keyboard sometimes. I know you use OnSong, but that's not my jam...I'm thinking of adding an extra column to the set-list spreadsheet.

This. We also have a separate version of the set list for one of our guitarists with his effects settings on it.

 

I take it one step further and have a list of keyboard settings for each song taped to my top Blofeld, and taped to the bottom one is a key to which Blofeld patch number corresponds to which patch name (I have about 40 custom patches on the Blofelds). For synths without presets like the Minimoog, I have a code which simply states the difference between the settings for that song and my "standard" setting -- for example, "8-8q f10o atk" means a 2-oscillator square wave both at the 8' octave with the filter at the 10 o'clock position and the attack knobs set to a softer rise than I usually use.

 

I am a firm believer in the principle of just because you have it committed to memory doesn't mean you shouldn't have a cheat sheet too. We all have those occasional mind-blank moments, and having a backup for that seems like just common sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

For some strange reason I have been experiencing short term memory loss. Sometimes during the count-in I actually forget what the song is and start to panic (it's a small band) so I interrupt the count. Once I'm reminded of what song has just been called I feel really stupid, the dance floor has cleared and people are starting to leave the venue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Members

onelife: sounds like you need a set list!

 

We played a good gig Saturday night. Musically a tad shaky, but mostly only stuff musicians would notice. The crowd loved us, we are noticing that we are building a (SMALL) following of people we don't know but recognize, and the club manager told us he'd call us this week to book out the rest of the year.

 

Funny thing I didn't notice until checking out the Facebook videos.....Sweet Caroline gets the girls dancing, but the guys leave the dance floor!

 

Also got surprised playing Born To Run on Saturday. Normally I don't expect much of a reaction from this tune - it's a tricky piece and IMO a great song, but from a bar band POV, it's filler (but filler we enjoy playing). Played it Saturday, botched the intro (keys master volume wrong AND I started playing it in C, sigh), but after that it went fine. I could hear people on the dance floor singing the lyrics, and a bunch of girls sang the "OOOH!!" when the full organ / leslie tremolo shots come in between lines of the verse. After the gig a couple of Springsteen fans found me and said something to the effect of "Bruce has the best band in the world, that song is tricky to the point where basically nobody else should try to do it, but you guys did it okay, I hope you play it again next time". Probably the nicest thing anybody has ever said to me. :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

In past bands, mostly classic rock and originals we always had a ton of songs and would create set lists for the next gig, often depending on what we felt would go over in a particular venue or what we wanted to play. We did teh 3 or so song block thing to keed downtime short and that all worked fine.

 

In my current modern country band (we have gotten past our problems related to playing in many different keys) we just keep one current setlist and play it at every gig. Makes life much easier. If we drop a song we drop it for good. We do not create new sets for every gig but revamp the list, adding new material every 3 or 4 months. Way simpler than learning a couple hundred songs and there are no questions about what the next song is.

 

We have been gigging 3 times a month, could book more but don't want to, and our crowds have been growing with fans following us around so it seems to be working.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Members

I played a gig here in Nashville once with some great musicians. We played 5 hours straight with only two bathroom breaks (where either the keyboard player or acoustic player) kept playing while we all rushed to the restroom. It was quite grueling, but so much fun. We never stopped between songs, rather the music director (keyboardist and lead singer) put together a set list that naturally flowed from one song to another. (all cover stuff)

 

I once watched Dweezil Zappa's band play for 3 straight hours (HIGH ENERGY STUFF) without ever stopping for any reason. He masterfully found a line in each song that became the start of the next song (songs that contained the exact same riff).

It was quite inspiring and masterful.

 

I think if you provide entertainment, the beer will sell. That is what a venue owner wants. Otherwise, he isn't making any money and you won't be asked back.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Members
onelife: sounds like you need a set list!

 

Either that or stop whatever is causing the short term memory loss.


Probably the nicest thing anybody has ever said to me. :)

 

...

I think if you provide entertainment, the beer will sell. That is what a venue owner wants. Otherwise, he isn't making any money and you won't be asked back.

 

The worst thing anyone ever said to me (musically speaking) is "your band is very good but people aren't drinking so I can't hire you back."

 

Up to that point, I actually believed I was in the music business.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Lots of people confuse the entertainment business for the music business. Most club owners cannot afford to be patrons to the arts; they have to pay staff, rent, and so on. Mozart had a sweet deal going on, but even the Archibishop wanted to be entertained now and then.

 

Sounds to me like you're in the entertainment business. Me too. I am frequently paid to entertain people; it's rare that I find work that involves making music where the audience reaction is not tied to my income. Don't be sad about this realization. Be entertaining.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...