Jump to content

How Much is The Knot???


sventvkg

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Guido, or anyone else. We're finally getting ready to shoot our promo video next month for Corporate and Wedding and I'm working on a marketing plan and I was wondering how much a featured spot is on the knot? Ball park is fine. Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

There are two levels of featured spots on The Knot. One is $100 a month and the other is $50 a month for what they call "lite". I'm not sure the difference. We just have the free, non-featured listing at this time.

 

Then again, I don't know that we have ever booked a gig from The Knot so this might be one we should reconsider. I tend to rotate some of these paid listings as we can't afford to do all of them all of the time.

 

My general feeling is that as long as a non-featured listing is still showing up on the first page of search results, that there isn't a WHOLE lot of benefit to paying just to show up among the top two or three. The other side of this argument is that if you get even one gig a year from the paid listing, it was probably worth it.

 

No set rules here. Gotta take it on a case-by-case basis. But The Knot does seem to be one of the more active and respected wedding sites, so it's probably worth some extra effort.

 

It's hard to keep track of what gigs comes through some of these sites or not. The Knot lets you put up an easy-to-find link to your website (one reason we have probably thought we didn't need to pay for the featured listing), and once they get to our website they are contacting us directly and even asking "where did you find the band?" doesn't usually result in a helpful answer. They usually don't remember which path they took to get to us.

 

There's a traffic counter on their website. It tells me that we've had 42 "unique visitors" in the last 6 months with 0 inquiries. But again, if they are clicking through to our website why would we get any inquires from The Knot?

 

In an effort to sell us on the featured listing (they call it a 'storefront'), it tells me that the "average for standard storefronts in your market and category in the last 6 months" is 97 visitors and 11 inquiries.

 

 

How true that is, or how that would translate into more visitors (and more importantly more gigs) for MY band by simply paying for a the storefront? I dunno.

 

They also keep track of "clickthroughs" but only give you that info if you pay for the storefront. :)

 

Hope this info helps you out! Can't wait to see that promo, dude. I know there will be stuff I will want to steal! :)

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yea, I know that the band leader in my Nashville band had a paid listing on Wedding Wire for a few years then after the band got momentum, he went to a free listing as most weddings at that point were referrals and his SEO had gotten his band into the top search tier in the Nashville area.

 

We are launching this business so I figure we go big in the beginning to get us out there. Dan, my old band leader told me it took 3 years to really build his band so that's my plan as well. I'm going to have a pro ad on Wedding Wire, Paid on The Knot and Gigmasters. I don't know if Gig Salad is worth it as I don't know anyone who uses it but I'll investigate. We're also going to use some Facebook targeted Ads and probably Google. Gotta hit this thing hard! Can't wait to show everyone the promo:) Thanks!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think we've gotten maybe one gig through Gig Salad ever. Personally, I don't think its worth spending money on.

 

I think targeted Facebook ads are a good idea. We've been considering that as well.

 

Also make sure to hit all the big wedding venues and wedding coordinators in your area directly. For which physical promo paks are still a good idea. We get a good number of gigs simply by being one of the "recommended vendors" at the venue they are renting for the day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I think we've gotten maybe one gig through Gig Salad ever. Personally, I don't think its worth spending money on.

 

I think targeted Facebook ads are a good idea. We've been considering that as well.

 

Also make sure to hit all the big wedding venues and wedding coordinators in your area directly. For which physical promo paks are still a good idea. We get a good number of gigs simply by being one of the "recommended vendors" at the venue they are renting for the day.

 

Gonna have to find out where specific venues are because they seem to do them at the Big Hotel Resorts just like the Corporates around here in Orlando...Wedding coordinators, yes I will definitely get in touch with as many as I can find!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Thanks for the advice Dave!

 

One thing I've learned (rather surprisingly) is how venue-driven a lot of events are. But it makes sense. Whether it's a corp event or a wedding, the venue is often the first choice made. And it's only after they've chosen to have their event in a certain city and certain venue do they start thinking about things like "OK, now where do we find the entertainment" and they'll often ask their contact at the venue for recommendations.

 

So my advice is to chat up the event departments at the major hotels and see what they do in these instances. If they are giving out direct recommendations, then schmooze them up and get on their "preferred vendor" list. If they farm it out to booking agents or other event/wedding coordinators, then follow up that lead.

 

Every major area is probably different, but where I am, the gigs come from all over the place. It isn't as simple as "get in good with this agent and you're gold" anymore. You've really got to make sure you leave no stone unturned.

 

My band has hit a bit of a brick wall over the last couple of years with the number of gigs we've been able to book every year. We seem to be stuck at 25-30 shows a year and we'd like to have that be more like 40-50. I know the answer is just finding more stones to unturn rather than just trying to turn the same few over and over. So my advice to you is given largely as a means to remind myself what needs to be done.

 

The work is there. Other bands are getting it. We just have to nose in ahead of them and be more aggressive in marketing ourselves.

 

Not to make excuses but we've been in a bit of a holding pattern for the last 12-18 months due to a unsettled situation with the front singers. Same two girls we've had for the last 3 years but they've both been uncertain about their futures for awhile and back-and-forth with what they want to do regarding the band and that's put a big snag in things like learning new material and developing new promo material.

 

I THINK (hope) we finally worked all of that out this weekend and can now concentrate on moving forward into next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Some great tips in there, David!

 

Even in my situation, I've been having a hard time developing promo material, which has made the "cold call" basically impossible.

 

I found out recently that the reason we haven't been playing Venue X that used to book us is because (on a gig I missed), the bar had a bad night (major free event happening the same day) and my band mates refused to take an ex-post-facto pay cut. Good for them, I would have done the same thing.

 

We have a booking at the major club in our area again in November. I hope I can parlay that into some good promo, and will be hiring a photographer. That show needs to be really good, the last outing we had there was a bit unpolished. Not bad, just unpolished. I'm hoping the booker will be in attendance again. The one thing about that place, the lighting is hell and the stage background is very busy. It screws up photos big-time.

 

The Wedding crowd that we attract is different from yours. We get the late/second wedding folks who want a dressed-up bar band at their reception. I'm still trying to figure if I should try and tweak our image for a broader appeal (and how).

 

Wes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

The Wedding crowd that we attract is different from yours. We get the late/second wedding folks who want a dressed-up bar band at their reception. I'm still trying to figure if I should try and tweak our image for a broader appeal (and how).

 

Wes

 

That's not a bad niche. You don't have to be THAT much up-graded from your bar band look/sound and the gigs can pay quite a bit more so if the gigs are out there and you guys are comfortable with the work and the pay, then I say stick with it.

 

Kicking it up to the level of a high-dollar wedding band is a lot of work and effort. It almost certainly means finding a strong, dynamic front person (or two or three) and having a female vocalist is pretty much necessary as well. And then learning a wide range of material and being able and willing to deal with all the extra stuff that comes with doing a wedding like providing mics and sound for ceremonies, cocktail hours, dinner music, etc etc. My band is pretty good at it because we found out early on that we actually LIKE being that sort of a band, which has resulted in us being pretty good at it, which means we get paid pretty well for it and get good responses for our work, which ends up in us liking it even more and on and on.

 

The only bands I've seen do well on the wedding circuit and get around not having to be a full on "wedding band" and just get to show and play and get paid really well are those who have well-established reputations as big time club/regional bands. Often these are the bands that are very gimmicky and put on really big shows. Which is a whole 'nother level of commitment and work and effort.

 

But the lower-to-mid-level private event stuff IS out there. We've pretty much set our minimum fee at $3K for a no-frills, just show up and play gig, but we turn down a LOT of offers for gigs that want to pay $1500-2K for something more than a bar band. And I see a lot of bands getting those gigs who, IMO, aren't much better than your average bar band. They are maybe a bit tighter and the songlist is sharper and they dress a bit better than your average bar band, but mostly they just have gone after the gigs a little better and a little harder.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

One thing I've learned (rather surprisingly) is how venue-driven a lot of events are. But it makes sense. Whether it's a corp event or a wedding, the venue is often the first choice made. And it's only after they've chosen to have their event in a certain city and certain venue do they start thinking about things like "OK, now where do we find the entertainment" and they'll often ask their contact at the venue for recommendations.

 

So my advice is to chat up the event departments at the major hotels and see what they do in these instances. If they are giving out direct recommendations, then schmooze them up and get on their "preferred vendor" list. If they farm it out to booking agents or other event/wedding coordinators, then follow up that lead.

 

Every major area is probably different, but where I am, the gigs come from all over the place. It isn't as simple as "get in good with this agent and you're gold" anymore. You've really got to make sure you leave no stone unturned.

 

My band has hit a bit of a brick wall over the last couple of years with the number of gigs we've been able to book every year. We seem to be stuck at 25-30 shows a year and we'd like to have that be more like 40-50. I know the answer is just finding more stones to unturn rather than just trying to turn the same few over and over. So my advice to you is given largely as a means to remind myself what needs to be done.

 

The work is there. Other bands are getting it. We just have to nose in ahead of them and be more aggressive in marketing ourselves.

 

Not to make excuses but we've been in a bit of a holding pattern for the last 12-18 months due to a unsettled situation with the front singers. Same two girls we've had for the last 3 years but they've both been uncertain about their futures for awhile and back-and-forth with what they want to do regarding the band and that's put a big snag in things like learning new material and developing new promo material.

 

I THINK (hope) we finally worked all of that out this weekend and can now concentrate on moving forward into next year.

 

From the information I have gotten thus far the Orlando/Central FL Market is a bit different in that we literally have thousands of big hotels (World's number 1 tourist destination 65 million visitors 2014!) and it's also the global corporate conference destination. There are some wedding coordination companies and I will definitely hit them up. A LOT of it is through the websites as people come to FL for destination weddings, and word of mouth and yes you do meet coordinators and venues along the way. I'm going to hit up as many as I can find and hand them promo's. I'll also hit the major hotels and see what their event specialists say! Great advice Dave. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yeah, you definitely have a hot market there in FL! Of course, the other side of the that coin is increased competition. But personally, I like having stiff competition. It not only keeps you at the top of your game, but it makes it easy for you to set your mark. All you have to do is take a look at the top bands in the area and you can easily figure out exactly how good you need to be to target the market you want to go after and to find your niche.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Yeah, you definitely have a hot market there in FL! Of course, the other side of the that coin is increased competition. But personally, I like having stiff competition. It not only keeps you at the top of your game, but it makes it easy for you to set your mark. All you have to do is take a look at the top bands in the area and you can easily figure out exactly how good you need to be to target the market you want to go after and to find your niche.

 

 

 

 

Yes. but believe it or not, theres a RUTT of bands doing the whole latin/Dance Top40 thing but not everyone wants that for their wedding. Country is a HUGE market and its just not served here AT ALL and classic GREAT Anthemic songs that everyone can sing along with plus a DJ along with new country is going to be our Niche. I think we can find 50 clients a year. Especially adding to the fact that NO ONE has what I would consider a decent video or promo here in this market. My partner is a motion graphics God and we're getting ready to shoot our promo. It's going to be shot on RED, or Arri and be very cinematic in look. Will have LED Screen visuals behind us...Doing 3 cuts. One for weddings, one for corporate and one for an acoustic tropical trio thing which is pretty in demand around here. Budget should be around 7-10K for the shoot we think then Mark will do the Motion Graphics/Editing and Coloring. Can't wait for you guys to see it!!! And here our tracks:) Been working on them for quite a while now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Looking forward to hearing and seeing it for sure!

 

Yeah...hmmmm.....modern country. Yes, it's a huge market and I would expect you might find bigger demand for it at weddings in Florida than in Northern California. Not that country isn't huge here---it is. Especially the further out you get from the big cities. But not so much with the higher dollar destination wedding crowd. We've added a few country songs here and there but for the most part they have just bombed for us. When we pull out those songs I find that usually only the few country fans who might be there dance to them while the rest of the crowd isn't interested. But EVERYONE (country fans included) are on the floor for stuff like Billie Jean, Mickey and Don't Stop Believin'. (The exception being, of course, Folsom Prison Blues.) But even something you'd think would be rather sure-fire like "Here For The Party" gets met with 'meh' reaction most of the time for us.

 

For us, at least, a lot of it is about the destination. People coming from wherever to places like San Francisco, Napa Valley or Lake Tahoe aren't as likely to be country music fans, I suppose. And then there have been oddball situations where maybe the bride (or even both the bride and the groom) say they are big country fans but they know that none of their guests are so they specifically don't want much country played. I'm sure people flying to Dallas or Nashville for a wedding are much more likely to want to hear country.

 

But I think most of that has to do with general familiarity. Modern country is big, but it is still a niche. Get outside the specific country fans and you don't find too many people who have even heard something like "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy" before, let alone like it. That. to me, has always been the key to putting together a songlist for a corporate or wedding gig. It's completely the opposite from playing a bar or some other venue where most of the people there are going to be culturally similar and like the same type of music. In most bars, the type of music being played is a big part of the draw. But at corporate parties and weddings who find people who don't necessarily have much in common culturally (they just all happen to work for the same company or are related to the same people) are suddenly thrown together in a room and the band has to try to entertain all of them. Not to mention the much broader age groups. "Broad appeal" is the key here.

 

And here's another anecdote: I attended a wedding a few weeks ago where the guests were all pretty hardcore country. Everyone is in jeans and boots and hats and giant belt buckles. The bride's parents are cattle ranchers. The guests were seated for the ceremony on hay bales. People are drinking Coors Light from cans. The food being served is BBQ. This is a country wedding if ever there was one. The DJ starts out the dancing with some modern country. A few of the hardcore cowgirls get up to line dance. After about 4 or 5 songs the dance floor is empty. What finally packs the dancefloor? He plays Billie Jean into Uptown Funk. Some stuff just works regardless.

 

One time we had a wedding in Tahoe where everyone was flying out from Oklahoma. Person after person went out of their way to tell us that the bride and groom were soon graduating medical school and most of the guests were all medical school students and that this was NOT a typical Oklahoma country crowd! And please don't play ANY country because this crowd would NOT like it. Guess somebody was feeling a bit stereotyped?

 

The exception though, is the 'special dance' songs. There is that whole sub-genre of country music devoted to horribly cheezy ballads written to be played at weddings. And even non-country fans seem to like these songs for these occasions. We play "My Wish", "I Loved Her First" and "My Little Girl" a LOT.

 

Having said all that, I'm sure there is a market for high-dollar events and weddings for clients specifically looking for country acts. And Orlando might be as good a place for that as any. But just make sure you scope it out as well as you can before you decide to hang your spurs on it too much. There might a reason why that market appears to not being well served. Markets have a funny way of working themselves out most time.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Looking forward to hearing and seeing it for sure!

 

Yeah...hmmmm.....modern country. Yes, it's a huge market and I would expect you might find bigger demand for it at weddings in Florida than in Northern California. Not that country isn't huge here---it is. Especially the further out you get from the big cities. But not so much with the higher dollar destination wedding crowd. We've added a few country songs here and there but for the most part they have just bombed for us. When we pull out those songs I find that usually only the few country fans who might be there dance to them while the rest of the crowd isn't interested. But EVERYONE (country fans included) are on the floor for stuff like Billie Jean, Mickey and Don't Stop Believin'. (The exception being, of course, Folsom Prison Blues.) But even something you'd think would be rather sure-fire like "Here For The Party" gets met with 'meh' reaction most of the time for us.

 

For us, at least, a lot of it is about the destination. People coming from wherever to places like San Francisco, Napa Valley or Lake Tahoe aren't as likely to be country music fans, I suppose. And then there have been oddball situations where maybe the bride (or even both the bride and the groom) say they are big country fans but they know that none of their guests are so they specifically don't want much country played. I'm sure people flying to Dallas or Nashville for a wedding are much more likely to want to hear country.

 

But I think most of that has to do with general familiarity. Modern country is big, but it is still a niche. Get outside the specific country fans and you don't find too many people who have even heard something like "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy" before, let alone like it. That. to me, has always been the key to putting together a songlist for a corporate or wedding gig. It's completely the opposite from playing a bar or some other venue where most of the people there are going to be culturally similar and like the same type of music. In most bars, the type of music being played is a big part of the draw. But at corporate parties and weddings who find people who don't necessarily have much in common culturally (they just all happen to work for the same company or are related to the same people) are suddenly thrown together in a room and the band has to try to entertain all of them. Not to mention the much broader age groups. "Broad appeal" is the key here.

 

And here's another anecdote: I attended a wedding a few weeks ago where the guests were all pretty hardcore country. Everyone is in jeans and boots and hats and giant belt buckles. The bride's parents are cattle ranchers. The guests were seated for the ceremony on hay bales. People are drinking Coors Light from cans. The food being served is BBQ. This is a country wedding if ever there was one. The DJ starts out the dancing with some modern country. A few of the hardcore cowgirls get up to line dance. After about 4 or 5 songs the dance floor is empty. What finally packs the dancefloor? He plays Billie Jean into Uptown Funk. Some stuff just works regardless.

 

One time we had a wedding in Tahoe where everyone was flying out from Oklahoma. Person after person went out of their way to tell us that the bride and groom were soon graduating medical school and most of the guests were all medical school students and that this was NOT a typical Oklahoma country crowd! And please don't play ANY country because this crowd would NOT like it. Guess somebody was feeling a bit stereotyped?

 

The exception though, is the 'special dance' songs. There is that whole sub-genre of country music devoted to horribly cheezy ballads written to be played at weddings. And even non-country fans seem to like these songs for these occasions. We play "My Wish", "I Loved Her First" and "My Little Girl" a LOT.

 

Having said all that, I'm sure there is a market for high-dollar events and weddings for clients specifically looking for country acts. And Orlando might be as good a place for that as any. But just make sure you scope it out as well as you can before you decide to hang your spurs on it too much. There might a reason why that market appears to not being well served. Markets have a funny way of working themselves out most time.

 

 

It's funny because right now country is by the numbers the biggest format in the US. It's overtaken pop. I can't understand how NEW modern country can bomb..Now, if it's a dancing crowd and you are a dance band then I can see not playing too much of it because well, it's mostly mid-tempo. That said, I agree with the sure-fire hits and most of our list is just that...Anthems. Stuff that people can sing along too and love!! Yes we want dance but we are bringing a DJ for between sets so we can have the most up to date Dance stuff with the anthemic sing along good time, band experience.

 

I would say that at least 75% of what we play is going to be danceable and we aren't planning on doing more than a set of country tunes total on the list. But it's interesting how almost no one plays any around here. I don't know, maybe they do bomb. IF they do, I'll drop em..What i'm NOT playing is the whole latin/top 40 dance stuff everyone does around here. Not only can't I stand it but it's so over-done. We want have our own twist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Before I start to come off as too preachy here, please don't think I'm trying to tell you what to do. Simply just putting some food-for-thought out there so you think it all through and make the best business decisions for your band going forward which I know you want to do.

 

 

It's funny because right now country is by the numbers the biggest format in the US. It's overtaken pop. I can't understand how NEW modern country can bomb..

 

Because, like I said, it's still a niche. Get outside the fans of the genre and you find a BIG unfamiliarity with the songs. Ask the average modern country fan if he's familiar with "All About That Bass" or "Uptown Funk" and the answer is almost certainly going to be yes. Ask the average pop music fan if he's familiar with "Give Em Back My Hometown" or "Burnin' It Down" and I really don't think the level of familiarity is going to be nearly as high.

 

And no, it hasn't overtaken pop. Take a look at the Billboard Hot 100 and Top 200 Album charts which rank singles and albums across all genres. The highest charting country single right now is "Kick The Dust Up" by Luke Bryan at #29.

 

Here's a breakdown of 2014 sales by genre across album, track purchases and streaming according to Neilsen:

  • Rock - 29%
  • R&B/ Hip Hop - 17.2%
  • Pop - 14.9%
  • Country - 11.2%
  • Dance/EDM - 3.4%
  • Christian/Gospel - 3.1%
  • Holiday/Seasonal - 2.6%
  • Latin - 2.6%
  • Jazz - 1.4%
  • Classical - 1.4%
  • Children - 1%

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2015/01/nielson-study-reveals-rock-prevails-as-most-popular-genre-in-the-us-.html

 

 

 

 

 

Now, if it's a dancing crowd and you are a dance band then I can see not playing too much of it because well, it's mostly mid-tempo. That said, I agree with the sure-fire hits and most of our list is just that...Anthems. Stuff that people can sing along too and love!! Yes we want dance but we are bringing a DJ for between sets so we can have the most up to date Dance stuff with the anthemic sing along good time, band experience.

 

I would say that at least 75% of what we play is going to be danceable and we aren't planning on doing more than a set of country tunes total on the list. But it's interesting how almost no one plays any around here. I don't know, maybe they do bomb. IF they do, I'll drop em.

 

 

Well, I hope you prove me wrong and I hope you can find a niche playing it for the crowds you want to play for. Then I'll definiately be the first guy to be taken a 2nd look at how much country we should or should not be doing.

 

But my best guess based on my professional experience is that if you go the modern country route, you need to go pretty much full-hog with it. Market yourself as a country band and see what sort of high-dollar gigs you can get with that. I certainly know of some bands that do really well with that. But they are full on modern country bands. Bring a fiddle and a steel guitar. And they are probably throwing in some rock and pop classics into their dance sets as well to serve others in the audience. But to be a more general-appeal dance band? Outside of the tried-and-true classics like Folsom Prison, Save A Horse, Wagon Wheel, Chicken Fried, etc....I'm not seeing it. But again....I'll be glad to be wrong on this one!

 

 

What i'm NOT playing is the whole latin/top 40 dance stuff everyone does around here. Not only can't I stand it but it's so over-done. We want have our own twist.

 

Well, the reason that stuff works in Florida is because of the destination. People going to Florida on vacation want to get their Miami Sound Machine on. So bands can probably do well playing even unfamiliar songs as long as they are providing the right beat and rhythm. Then the people go home and go back to whatever-else-it-is they usually listen to.

 

But finding a niche away from something already so over-done makes sense. I do agree with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I wish I knew how to multi-quote. I've NEVER figured that out....So.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing what you are saying and I have to think that if other bands aren't playing it then there isn't a lot of demand for it. However a couple bands in town have told me that they have lost weddings because the don't play any country so having a set of stuff probably makes sense. I'm not tied to ANYTHING and I do believe the tried and true classics plus the songs of the moment ARE THE WAY TO GO FOR SURE!! Just put your stamp on them in the context of your show. I absolutely agree that's the way to go! I believe you are right. Again, I was never going to have more than a set of country material on my list and I would NEVER play a full set of it a night. Maybe a handful unless specifically requested!

 

So really I agree with what you are saying. I'm more thinking that having a set of it on the list might tip us over on some gigs because of how fickle some brides can be and having had the benefit of running sound at a big club that past 6 months I've talked to most of the big corporate/wedding band leaders in town, witnessed their lists etc...(Which are incidentally and decidedly about 75% the same) and they've all told me having some country on the list will definitely help out of town. Most of these bands are heavily top 40 and 75% female front driven which I have no desire to do. First off, if you look at all the classic tunes no more than 25-30% were done by female artists and that's what i'm focusing on. YES, I know much of the current pop IS female fronted at the present time but we are focusing only on the biggest current pop hits anyway.

 

Anyway, Thanks for the advice, sending me sample contracts and everything Dave. Even though I've been in this business for 28 years, I've never run my own corporate/Wedding band so any and all advice/help I can get I will humbly receive!!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The thanks are appreciated and I think (hope) you know I value your experience and opinions as well. Not to mention the massive respect I have for your singing and songwriting skills. I also know that you're a pro and have a strong drive to be successful at this stuff. So if I can help at all by giving you ANY useful advice, I'm humbled as well. Everything I say is offered with the UPMOST respect and friendship. Simply just business advice to another in the biz. Nothing at all to do with musicality or art. You can play and sing circles around me all f'n day, Sean. That's a given.

 

I definitely think having the more variety on your songlist the better. And if you get hired because you've got some country tunes on it, then obviously those are the ones you should pull out. In fact, I think it's a very good idea to start out with a really broad setlist, be as ready as you can to accommodate whatever type gigs you need to accommodate, and then just let the market decide where you end up niching yourself.

 

As far as no female front goes? Like you note---no great loss as far as the classic tunes goes, but it's definitely a hindrance when it comes to the newer stuff. The few male-lead songs that exist these days can just as easily be sung by girls anyway. Plus, as corny as it is, putting a girl or two up front is like free money. It's SO expected by people looking to hire hi-dollar acts that it's like not having a live drummer. Not that there aren't successful acts fronted by guys---there are. But it's a bit tougher road for them, I think. It's another one of those "why should we put a girl up front...EVERY band is doing that!" things, but again...they are doing it for a reason. Trust me. I'll bet if you talked to those bandleaders, 90% of them would say they'd rather do it with just all guys if they could make the same money doing so.

 

But if you've got strong vocals and a bunch of good looking guys---or at least guys who aren't all a thousand years old--, it shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Especially if you've got a good looking charismatic front guy. But the visual has to be pretty strong. You get hired for these sorts of gigs based on promo shots and videos, for the most part. I'd have no problem going out in the market with a band who looked like Maroon 5 in their promo shot. But if they looked like, say, Van Halen does today? Not so much.

 

Not to harp on it but back to the country thing (because I've been running it through my head today)---I've been trying to picture what you guys are wanting to do----

 

So let's say you've been hired to play a several thousand dollar wedding reception with some folks coming down to Orlando from...I dunno, Cleveland or Baltimore or wherever---and guests flying in from all over to attend. And you've got 150 or so guests of all ages dancing and partying. And you've got your DJ pumping out the latest big dance hits during the break---he's going through "Shake It Off' and "Want to Want Me" and "Can't Feel My Face" etc and he's got the dance floor packed. And you guys come on and get them even more revved up with the big classic anthem stuff like "Don't Stop Believin'", "You Shook Me All Night Long", "Livin' on a Prayer" etc. and then you're going to do what....go into----- "Country Girl Shake It For Me"?

 

Hmmmm......sorry....but unless you KNOW that a big chunk of that crowd are country music fans, I'd predict you're going to lose 75% of the dance floor. Even as strong and fun as that song is. You'd be much better off doing Dynamite or Highway to Hell or Jessie's Girl or even Sweet f'n Caroline. I'm just not seeing that stuff connect to people outside that group of fairly hardcore modern country fans. As much as modern country resembles classic rock from a musical standpoint and as much as older rock fans have gravitated towards it in recent years? Culturally, I'm still not seeing where it makes that full crossover needed to work with broad audiences.

 

But yes....if you know you've got an audience who connects to that stuff? Then yes....absolutely....all the way.

 

At least that's my experience out here. But heck....I've never even BEEN to Florida, so I could be COMPLETELY wrong.

 

But to put it another way....let me just reiterate this for you to think about when it comes to marketing (and something I know a bit about since I work in tourist destinations as well) you said yourself that Orlando is the #1 tourist destination. That's cool, but that means they are all coming from somewhere else. Which means from a marketing standpoint that you've either got to A) give them the music they like wherever they come from (which could and will be anywhere), or B) give them the "Florida" experience. Which is the latin/dance stuff.

 

You've already decided you don't want to do "B", so that means you've got to figure out what it is they like where they come from.

 

Well, you can't effectively do that for every place in the US. So you've got to give them the 'broad appeal' stuff. And the country stuff gets more and more limited to the rural and southern areas of the US. (As others have told you, it will help "out of town".)

 

And, not to stereotype anyone here too much, but my experience is that the further you go up the money tree, the further away you get from country music fans. Not that you won't be able to snag the occasional big-dollar wedding for the daughter of some Texas oil baron or something who wants to hear a lot of country, but generally speaking? Like with the Oklahoma medical students I told you about....my experience is country music is much more popular with the low-budget beer-swilling crowd than with the type of folks I think you want to target.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
The thanks are appreciated and I think (hope) you know I value your experience and opinions as well. Not to mention the massive respect I have for your singing and songwriting skills. I also know that you're a pro and have a strong drive to be successful at this stuff. So if I can help at all by giving you ANY useful advice, I'm humbled as well. Everything I say is offered with the UPMOST respect and friendship. Simply just business advice to another in the biz. Nothing at all to do with musicality or art. You can play and sing circles around me all f'n day, Sean. That's a given.

 

I definitely think having the more variety on your songlist the better. And if you get hired because you've got some country tunes on it, then obviously those are the ones you should pull out. In fact, I think it's a very good idea to start out with a really broad setlist, be as ready as you can to accommodate whatever type gigs you need to accommodate, and then just let the market decide where you end up niching yourself.

 

As far as no female front goes? Like you note---no great loss as far as the classic tunes goes, but it's definitely a hindrance when it comes to the newer stuff. The few male-lead songs that exist these days can just as easily be sung by girls anyway. Plus, as corny as it is, putting a girl or two up front is like free money. It's SO expected by people looking to hire hi-dollar acts that it's like not having a live drummer. Not that there aren't successful acts fronted by guys---there are. But it's a bit tougher road for them, I think. It's another one of those "why should we put a girl up front...EVERY band is doing that!" things, but again...they are doing it for a reason. Trust me. I'll bet if you talked to those bandleaders, 90% of them would say they'd rather do it with just all guys if they could make the same money doing so.

 

But if you've got strong vocals and a bunch of good looking guys---or at least guys who aren't all a thousand years old--, it shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Especially if you've got a good looking charismatic front guy. But the visual has to be pretty strong. You get hired for these sorts of gigs based on promo shots and videos, for the most part. I'd have no problem going out in the market with a band who looked like Maroon 5 in their promo shot. But if they looked like, say, Van Halen does today? Not so much.

 

Not to harp on it but back to the country thing (because I've been running it through my head today)---I've been trying to picture what you guys are wanting to do----

 

So let's say you've been hired to play a several thousand dollar wedding reception with some folks coming down to Orlando from...I dunno, Cleveland or Baltimore or wherever---and guests flying in from all over to attend. And you've got 150 or so guests of all ages dancing and partying. And you've got your DJ pumping out the latest big dance hits during the break---he's going through "Shake It Off' and "Want to Want Me" and "Can't Feel My Face" etc and he's got the dance floor packed. And you guys come on and get them even more revved up with the big classic anthem stuff like "Don't Stop Believin'", "You Shook Me All Night Long", "Livin' on a Prayer" etc. and then you're going to do what....go into----- "Country Girl Shake It For Me"?

 

Hmmmm......sorry....but unless you KNOW that a big chunk of that crowd are country music fans, I'd predict you're going to lose 75% of the dance floor. Even as strong and fun as that song is. You'd be much better off doing Dynamite or Highway to Hell or Jessie's Girl or even Sweet f'n Caroline. I'm just not seeing that stuff connect to people outside that group of fairly hardcore modern country fans. As much as modern country resembles classic rock from a musical standpoint and as much as older rock fans have gravitated towards it in recent years? Culturally, I'm still not seeing where it makes that full crossover needed to work with broad audiences.

 

But yes....if you know you've got an audience who connects to that stuff? Then yes....absolutely....all the way.

 

At least that's my experience out here. But heck....I've never even BEEN to Florida, so I could be COMPLETELY wrong.

 

But to put it another way....let me just reiterate this for you to think about when it comes to marketing (and something I know a bit about since I work in tourist destinations as well) you said yourself that Orlando is the #1 tourist destination. That's cool, but that means they are all coming from somewhere else. Which means from a marketing standpoint that you've either got to A) give them the music they like wherever they come from (which could and will be anywhere), or B) give them the "Florida" experience. Which is the latin/dance stuff.

 

You've already decided you don't want to do "B", so that means you've got to figure out what it is they like where they come from.

 

Well, you can't effectively do that for every place in the US. So you've got to give them the 'broad appeal' stuff. And the country stuff gets more and more limited to the rural and southern areas of the US. (As others have told you, it will help "out of town".)

 

And, not to stereotype anyone here too much, but my experience is that the further you go up the money tree, the further away you get from country music fans. Not that you won't be able to snag the occasional big-dollar wedding for the daughter of some Texas oil baron or something who wants to hear a lot of country, but generally speaking? Like with the Oklahoma medical students I told you about....my experience is country music is much more popular with the low-budget beer-swilling crowd than with the type of folks I think you want to target.

 

 

 

 

Thanks..And YES..I ABSOLUTELY have a VERY good looking FEMALE Front and I Totally understand the value of it from a marketing standpoint. I'm also open to another dynamic male front but we can't find anyone who can sing as good or better than me so right now I'm handling the bulk of the male rock vocals and my partner mark who has a higher, clearer yet less refined lead vocal voice is doing stuff that fits his voice. So we have all 5 members who sing lead, a female front person who is as good with a crowd ( she does this full time at Rising Star Universal Orlando, Senior Frogs in I-Drive, and several other corporate bands) as anyone I have EVER SEEN.

 

Our video is going to be 2nd to none in this market for sure and I'll show you soon as it's done as well as our promo pics. The drummer looks like a Rock star, I clean up nice and the female front is very pretty. No probe there and I was very aware of what that has to be from the get go. smile.png

 

But yes, on the Country obviously I won't kill the momentum by pulling it where it's not appropriate and I WAS thinking of tunes like Cruise, Country Girl's Shake it, Wagon Wheel etc...I think more to have it on the list to appeal to a broader demographic than anything else. NOT necessarily on the set list every gig.

 

Orlando IS the number one tourist destination and that does play into the corporate gigs but not so much as much of a factor in the wedding business I think. We can serve most of Florida within a 3 1/2 hour drive and I expect to work Everywhere from Jacksonville down the coast to Miami and from Naples up to well north of the Tampa bay area on the West Coast. Hopefully hitting the destination wedding market as well as 20 million resident local market. That's the plan anyway.

 

And it's funny because the wedding bands that play in this market and the Miami Market are more Latin heavy but in my hometown of West Palm Beach not so much. If you go to Jacksonville and Tampa it's more varied and our list has all the usual hits plus so things that are like that not everyone else does like Mister Mister, Peter Gabriel, etc etc...No real surprises just some sprinkling of our stamp on there but we probably do most of what's on your list and ALL the expected tunes. I'm NOT married to any genre although I do not play latin and although I would run and book a latin based dance band I would NOT play in it as I don't like it. But if it made sense to jump into that arena at some point for whatever reason , I would.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

 

Thanks..And YES..I ABSOLUTELY have a VERY good looking FEMALE Front and I Totally understand the value of it from a marketing standpoint. I'm also open to another dynamic male front but we can't find anyone who can sing as good or better than me so right now I'm handling the bulk of the male rock vocals and my partner mark who has a higher, clearer yet less refined lead vocal voice is doing stuff that fits his voice. So we have all 5 members who sing lead, a female front person who is as good with a crowd ( she does this full time at Rising Star Universal Orlando, Senior Frogs in I-Drive, and several other corporate bands) as anyone I have EVER SEEN.

 

 

Oh cool! My mistake. When you said "Most of these bands are heavily top 40 and 75% female front driven which I have no desire to do. " I thought you were saying you didn't have a female at all.

 

Our video is going to be 2nd to none in this market for sure and I'll show you soon as it's done as well as our promo pics. The drummer looks like a Rock star, I clean up nice and the female front is very pretty. No probe there and I was very aware of what that has to be from the get go.

 

Cool! I need to steal all the good video ideas I can at this point! biggrin.gif

 

 

Orlando IS the number one tourist destination and that does play into the corporate gigs but not so much as much of a factor in the wedding business I think. We can serve most of Florida within a 3 1/2 hour drive and I expect to work Everywhere from Jacksonville down the coast to Miami and from Naples up to well north of the Tampa bay area on the West Coast. Hopefully hitting the destination wedding market as well as 20 million resident local market. That's the plan anyway.

 

Yeah, I would think there's gotta be a lot of rich retired dudes down there. There's good money to be mined in the local market in that regard. We're playing a 60th birthday party for a guy in Napa Valley who owns a winery this weekend. They only want 60s, 70s, 80s. 2 sets. Big money. Should be fun. Love the easy ones!

 

We've doing a lot of 50th birthday parties for deep-pocketed folks lately. Our age group is retiring out or getting close to it and, while I personally didn't hit the jackpot, many of them did. I'm more than happy to entertain them for a bit of their hard-earned savings. I would think Florida would be at least as rich as Nor Cal when it comes to that type of clientele.

 

And it's funny because the wedding bands that play in this market and the Miami Market are more Latin heavy but in my hometown of West Palm Beach not so much. If you go to Jacksonville and Tampa it's more varied and our list has all the usual hits plus so things that are like that not everyone else does like Mister Mister, Peter Gabriel, etc etc...No real surprises just some sprinkling of our stamp on there but we probably do most of what's on your list and ALL the expected tunes. I'm NOT married to any genre although I do not play latin and although I would run and book a latin based dance band I would NOT play in it as I don't like it. But if it made sense to jump into that arena at some point for whatever reason , I would.

 

I've never been to Florida but I'm savvy enough to understand that the more south you go and the more toward the Caribbean side of the state, the more the Latin stuff would be hot. And you get up to the panhandle and you might as well be in Alabama at that point. Like California, it's a big state with a lot of varied cultures and people. (More than people not from here realize).

 

Good luck, man. I'm rooting for you all the way!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...