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Questions about forming a new band


chord123

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Update. This is the guy who played in the Stonehenge band. The 60 year old singer with cancer is cancer free now. I am done with him but I really did not expect him to survive so God performs miracles. I'm her to talk about something else.

 

I have been jamming and learning a few songs with John a guitar player. We are trying to start a band. He says I am what he has been looking for.We like the same songs and get along so far. He says a drummer out of high school going audition for our us in early July. So far its just two electric guitar players jamming learning each other songs. Last Wednesday he said his wife wants to be in the band he said she is a good singer and sings in the church. Neither one of us sing. He says he wants to keep it in the family. Having his wife in the band I think has some benefits and problems.

 

She is family so they will get along together and support each other.I'm sure she will show up at all or most practices since we practice at her house. We won't have to worry about bringing in a stranger in band who may not show up at practice and besides we may not like the stranger.

 

John's wife has no experience singing in rock band and she has no microphone or mixer or PA speakers.. If she is going be our singer then I would expect to her purchase a PA system and mixer. I sure don't want to invest in it. I am not singing except maybe background. vocals. Don't know if our songs lends itself to female voice so far we have in our set"Mississippi Queen", "Sweet Home Alabama" "Johnny B Goode", "Carol." "Taking Care of Business","Born on the Bayou","Blue Jean Blues","Cocaine.". I am kind of concerned these songs would have to be moved to different keys to fit her voice.

 

Anyway my plan is to play some open mic nights with her singing if she is halfway decent. I do not want to offer her a position in a band yet too early in the game .I think John will pressure me to do it. I don't want to build her hopes high and lead her on to thinking she 's the one and only vocalist for our band . If we build her hopes too high and don't offer her the job as the singer this good create some turmoil between John and me and the band. I know John wants her in the band and he may very well say everything she sings is great . Should I say to John she is good but lets audition other people. How about asking John's wife if she would be willing to invest hundreds of dollars of your money for a P A system and mixer.

 

I don't want to lead her on. I don't want to build her hopes up just to let John's wife down. But at the same time I don't want to create any bad ill will between John and me. I am sick of these family bands they play favorites all the time. .Anybody got suggestions on starting a band and proceeding from here. This is the first time I started a band .

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The first question you need to figure out is whose band it is, yours or John's. A committee is fine for hashing things out, but in the end someone has to have the yes/no decision. If John's wife has to be in the band or he'll leave, then figure out whether it's ultimately your band or his and act accordingly.

 

And don't just audition his wife live -- record it, and then if she's not the best singer it will be painfully obvious when you play it back.

 

If the band needs a PA then the band needs a PA, not the singer. Don't use Stonehenge as a model for how to run a band, run it how you think it should be run to be fair to everyone. And figure out first whether you actually need a PA or not -- you don't for open mic, and if this turns into a real band then you might not play enough shows without a house PA to justify buying one.

 

Which goes back to the fundamental question: what's your plan for the next year or two? Until you know where you're headed, you can't decide how to get there. Forming a band is not like joining one -- you have to map your path or you'll be muddling along tied down in day-to-day details without ever getting anywhere.

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I love your way of thinking. getting a tape recorder and recording his wifes voice. Great idea.

 

Rookie said .If the band needs a PA then the band needs a PA not the singer.

 

I disagree with your latter statement. If the band purchases the PA equipment and mixer then it becomes a Business Partnership. With each band member contributing an equal share of his money towards the PA system and mixer it is a partnership . I think that becomes a Partnership right. We split the costs between us. What if one of the members quits the band or two of the members quit the band or worse yet the entire band breaks up..Who gets the PA system? If a member quits ....wouldn't he still own part of the PA system. Does the quitting band member get a refund for his share of the money he put in the PA system? It just seems splitting the costs could result in a lot of fighting over money and fighting over who owns what percent of the PA system. Do you agree or disagree with what I have just said? Is purchasing the PA and mixer with band member funds a good idea. I assume we would be strangers and may not know each other or trust each other at this point. I have a question for people in a band or who were in a band . Does your band have each member contribute money towards the PA system or does one person own the PA system and mixer?.

 

 

I feel since the guitar players in our band have spent over a thousand dollars on their equipment to make themselves to be a part of the band. Shouldn't the the singer have to make AN INVESTMENT into a P.A. system to make his vocals heard be a part of the band. I am not the one singing I don't need to amplifly my voice, the drummer is not singing, the bass player is not singing and John our guitar player is not singing. Wouldn't it be the right thing to ask the singer to provide his own equipment if he wants to be our band. These are questions that will pop up so I need your advice. I can only think of one venue that provides a P A system in my hometown. My old band Stonehenge had their P A system so I am sure a PA is neccessary to get gigs in my hometown. I am only talking about playing out every two months thats all Stonehenge could do

 

How do you get the gigs?.We would be a unknown band booking gigs. I was told the band sets the price for the gig. The bar owner takes it or leaves the price or maybe we talk it between ourselves. Pay is $100 a person for a 4 hour gig. around here. We tell the bar what they need to pay us not the other way around right. To the person who hires entertainment for the bar to him we would be a unknown band with no experience playing paid gigs. The person at the bar who hires entertainers has never hired us or heard us play. Is this a big problem to overcome? Would it be necessary and would it help us to give the bar owner a demo ....preferably a live recording of , four of my bands best songs, to listen to. How about a biography of the band and lots of persuasive talking?. Saying the right thing will often persuade a bar to hire a band. Anybody have any clever persuasive lines they say to get hired for gigs..

 

Where is the band going? My goal to start with, is to have our band play with some local bands at a bar sometime. Spiccollis has a night once in awhile devoted to new bands, We can play one set of music at Spiccollis . That bar has a PA system and they would pay us in drinks. Should we become friends with a couple local bands and go to their giigs become their chums and ask them if we can open for them or play a set of music with them. If we love there music they will love our music. Good idea or not? Gigs at bars they are usually booked four to five months from now. Once we get a drummer or bass player whatever comes first we will be almost a band. When this happens I think we should start trying to get some gigs not just open mic nights. Cause I am hoping in 6 months we will have a real band which means,a bass player, a singer, a drummer, and two guitar players . If we can figure out the best way way to purchase a PA system and monitors and mixers and treat everybody fairly we will be ready to be gigging. It's going be a big journey. Right now are just two guitar players just jamming and learning song in a 500 square foot guest house.. John and I both feel we have chemistry together. We can do this and get out of this woodshed and on stage playing in front of people. We just need people who believe in us and accept us. Anybody tell me their experiences starting a band?

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Is the PA just to amplify vocals... or is it to amplify the band? It's not much of an investment to buy a pair of powered speakers plug her/her mic in and sing away, but you will likely be the most amateur sounding band in your market if you choose to do so. Sure in my experience starting up a new band someone had a PA to own or use, but as the band grew and the need for a more professional mix grew. In every band I played in the PA was for the band and not just the singer.

 

Again as IAMTHESKY asked... what is the plan for this band. To scoot around as a hobby. Or to maybe play some paid gigs. I often think the best route for a band of people who lack the experience of performing in front of people is to to not book paid performances. Let your product simmer. Invite an audience to rehearsals, play a few benefits, take offers for some parties where money isn't exchanged. My feeling, don't get paid for something until you know it's worth charging for. And of course the cover band scene is a money making market. It's competitive on varying levels and to be successful in the begining you need to draw and keep a crowd. Your first paid performance could be your last if you blow it. This is if you are 16 or 60.

 

PA are very affordable these days. A pair of powered speakers, stands, a cheap mixer can all be had for $1000-1500. Maybe it is something you invest in down the road.... when the band is more secure. Personally I'd rather own the PA if I was the one building the band. When I leave the PA comes with me. wink.png

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Wheresgrant3 is exactly right (as usual :) ).

 

Who said anything about splitting costs for the PA? If it's your band, you are the band. If you need a PA and need to do it on the cheap, camp Craigslist for good used gear, bite the bullet, but get it yourself. If anyone leaves your band, you (the band) get to keep the PA. Would you rather the singer owns the PA, and if they leave you not only have to find a singer but one who's willing to buy a PA as the price of admission? (Clue: you won't find one.)

 

Fair distribution of costs is not part of forming a band; neither is fair distribution of effort and responsibility. Some guitarists have $200 amps and $100 guitars, others have $5k in their amp and guitar; should the latter chip in to buy the former more expensive gear? I have $18k in my synthesizer rig (counting just the gear I use on stage), but our lead singer only needs to show up and sing. That's how it works. We don't have a PA for playing out, but we have a full stage setup in our rehearsal studio with mixer, four stage monitors, rack unit, mics, stands, and so on, and I own every piece of it down to the last cable -- if everyone else quit the band tomorrow, I'd still have a band because all I'd need to do is pull in musicians and their instruments, the setup is still going to be right there.

 

Forming a band is neither easy nor cheap. For the band leader, it's the opposite of both.

 

Which leads on to another point. You're kind of on the right track about how to get gigs, but take it further. Bars won't book you unless they know you, sure, but you don't have to play to know you. Go to local shows anywhere you want to play, and network the heck out of the musicians, the venue staff, the sound guys and eventually you'll get to know the owner too (and pick up a ton of useful knowledge on the way). If you support local music, local music will support you, whether it's getting on a bill with other bands you've come to know, or a venue owner having an open slot to fill and thinks of you. For your first show, who you know and how you present yourself are so much more important than how you sound; if they know you well enough, they know you'll sound just fine.

 

What I'm saying works. My new band is playing our first show in early August -- and it's headlining a top second-tier room on a good weekday night, with a well established and popular band opening for us. I must be doing something right. very-happy.png.197c47f720636f02390cc2b0a33804da.png' alt='smiley-veryhappy'>

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I pulled a muscle in my back last night moving some gear. So after dinner I took a Vicodin and had two glasses of wine. I start channel surfing and I decide to watch The Big Lebowski. Movie ends and I'm still groggy from the drugs and the booze and I decide to log in and I read THIS post.

 

 

 

drop the band idea but sell the whole story of both bands to the Coen Brothers. This is gold.

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Thanks for your responses everybody. I am not dropping the band, Doing that does does nobody any good. Next step I believe is to it get a drummer or bass player. Then we can add the singer as the last member. We need to get established first. Getting a drummer will make us so much much closer to being a band. We want the drummer to be on the same page as us, He needs to want to play classic rock and practice twice a week.and want to learn at least one set of music in the next few months.We will call him two weeks before his audition and have him play four of our songs with John and I. I will record the session on my Korg 32 track. Have lots of nice microphones to record the kick and snare and will use overhead mi to record the whole drum set and cymbals, . Maybe the first time we won't have his wife sit in. If the dummer is interested and comes back a second time then we will have his wife sit in on the session and have her sing and record the session with drummer his wife me and John.

 

The reason I don't want to try out for the band yet is because we don't have any amplification for a singers voice except a shure 57 and a couple of KRK monitors. We have no mixer, no PA system ,no wedge monitors and no front house speakers at this point. Pretty amatuer set up at this point. It may take up to six months or so to get a drummer. Thats how long it took Stonehenge to find their drummer. But I am thinking when we get the drummer we can have his wife sit in and sing, What do you people think of my plan. The better John and I have these songs down and can play them the easier is to attract quality musicians.

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Drummer out of High school will audition with John and I in 2 weeks. Told him to learn Mississippi Queen, Taking Care of Business,Roll On Down the Highway,Born on the Bayou,Were an American Band. Don't know if I should record our session or not. He said he is in it for the journey and long run. Any tips for us to help with this audition . I never auditioned a drummer before its a 500 feet space we practice in. He would have to set up in another room. I am thinking maybe we move the audition and have it in my basement I have much more room..Does anybody have any tips on how this should be run the right way? Whats the wrong way to go about it?

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No, don't put the drummer in another room. You need to all be able to see each other. You can't rehearse, let alone audition people, unless you are all in the same room. But why isn't 500 sf big enough? I rehearse 6 people in a 250 sf room with no problem whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

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Um.... I'm not understanding this either. Do you want to see our rehearsal space.... 12x13 room with 7 guys and instruments huddled inside.

 

 

Not counting rehearsals that take place on stages after the band has set up for a gig, I can probably count on one hand the number of days I've rehearsed a band in a space as large as 500sf on one hand. Unless it's been some sort of rented warehouse type space (and often those rooms aren't that big either), most of the rehearsals I've ever done take place in somebody's house in a living room or basement space.

 

Frankly, I prefer rather tight quarters where everyone is set up in some sort of circle more or less facing each other so it is easy to be one-on-one with each member as need be. I would not like to rehearse with some people on the far end of the stage from each other unless it's time to start working our choreography or some such.

 

I can not even fathom the idea of rehearsing with the drummer, or anyone else set up IN A SEPARATE ROOM. You're not even really rehearsing at that point.

 

Rehearsals need to be fairly intimate. Keep the volume down and work on the parts. Save the full rigs and the banging-the-drums-as-hard-as-you-can for the gigs.

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You don't need that big of a space. We used to practice in basically a rumpus room in our keyboard players house. We used a Fender Passport for vocals. We ran 4 mics for vocals, and that was it.

 

Small practice amps. Drummer took it easy.

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Ditto to what others have said. There's nothing wrong with jamming. If you aren't about getting out there and playing gigs, but just blowing off steam with friends and having fun, that's great. That said, a real practice is different than "jamming". Practice it about getting getting tighter, learning and refining your songs. We all go into my office, where a low end roland kit sits in the corner, and are ready to go in under 5 minutes. Practice amp for the guitar player and a few powered speakers we each plug into directly. We sit more less in a circle where we can see each other, with speakers pointing into the circle and we practice.

 

Generally speaking:

 

- If it takes you an hour to set up amps, mics, instruments, etc. you aren't practicing, you're jamming.

 

- If the drums are acoustic and the drummer isn't playing softly or won't use "hot rod" sticks to keep the sound levels down, you aren't practicing, you're jamming

 

- If your amp is too big or heavy to load in yourself, you aren't practicing, you're jamming

 

- If the vocals are completely buried....you guessed it, you're jamming

 

 

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The first question you need to figure out is whose band it is...

 

No disrespect to Iamthesky intended - I would argue this is exactly what you DON'T want to do. The attitude you're looking for in any band is one in which everybody feels that this is my band. The minute you've got bandmates shrugging their shoulders and saying "It's not my band" - the band is relegated to being a constantly changing collection of musicians.

 

If you're working with folks who can't work together as a group - but instead need a band leader to make decisions for the group (instead of discussing "next steps", forging agreement on where to go next by finding common ground thru discussion and compromise) - you're doomed from the start. Better to put your energies into finding a group that can work together than waste time with a dysfunctional batch of folks can't work together without somebody dictating how things are going to run.

 

 

 

 

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No disrespect to Iamthesky intended - I would argue this is exactly what you DON'T want to do. The attitude you're looking for in any band is one in which everybody feels that this is my band. The minute you've got bandmates shrugging their shoulders and saying "It's not my band" - the band is relegated to being a constantly changing collection of musicians.

 

If you're working with folks who can't work together as a group - but instead need a band leader to make decisions for the group (instead of discussing "next steps", forging agreement on where to go next by finding common ground thru discussion and compromise) - you're doomed from the start. Better to put your energies into finding a group that can work together than waste time with a dysfunctional batch of folks can't work together without somebody dictating how things are going to run.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but this simply isn't a de facto truth. In fact, as the band leader, While I do seek input, it's on me to run pretty much everything.... and my band mates are fine with that. Our success level makes everyone happy as we average double what we used to make back when we were a directionless commune of musicians.

 

Just because there is a leader doesn't mean we don't work together. We've been together since 2001 with 2 original members, one that joined in 2003, one in 2009 and one in 2011. So not much turnover (a 5 pc band with 9 members total in 14 years.

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Sorry, but this simply isn't a de facto truth. In fact, as the band leader, While I do seek input, it's on me to run pretty much everything.... and my band mates are fine with that. Our success level makes everyone happy as we average double what we used to make back when we were a directionless commune of musicians.

 

Just because there is a leader doesn't mean we don't work together.....

 

I'm not at all suggesting that a band doesn't need leadership. I'm a firm believer that a band needs leadership - and that it must be effective leadership. What I disagree with whole heartedly is any suggestion that just because a band has a titular leader, they now have effective leadership.

 

In the OP's situation - it sounds like he's got one vision regarding the direction the band needs to go in ... and somebody named John has another. The recommendation made was that the first step was to "figure out who's band it is". There were no suggestions on how to propose a reasonable solution that both the OP and John could get behind - just decide who's boss and let them pick. In a band that's struggling to put together a line-up that's a surefire way to shatter what little bit it has going.

 

If a "start-up" can't bring people to the table and hammer out a plan that everybody involved can get behind and support - they're doomed. Regardless of whether there's a titular "leader" or not. If I was expected to invest time and energy in a fledgling project that had only a partial lineup, no paying gigs on the horizon and was told "____ is the boss - he decides what we do", I'd be heading for the door. Wouldn't you?

 

If an organization is paying me real money - I can live with "this is how we do things" approach to band leadership. Let it be a fledging, startup without a partial line-up, no gigs on the horizon, and what sounds like "questionable" talent levels (based on the OP's assessment of the singer) - I would think it's gonna take more than "because _____ said so" for most reasonable folks to signup and follow.

 

Putting energy into "figuring out who's band it is" - and NOT focusing on coming up with a strategy / approach that everybody currently involved can get behind (either whole heartedly ... or at least willingly concede to try) - is a waste of time.

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About three months have passed, and we ( John and I ) have yet found a bass player, a singer or drummer to complete our partial band. We have put up ads on music store and received one response for a drummer and no responses for a bass player. The drummer expressed interest in June in being our drummer. And here it is in late august we still not have not met him or auditioned him. After he gets moved down here to his new town he said he could possibly audition. Have not ruled him out yet. So after no luck with ads . John and I went to a bar just before it's open mike night .We plan on playing only open mic gigs there in fall and recruit musicians to complete our partial band, John and I met a man Mike that night at the bar . Mike who sings and plays guitar at open mic nights at this bar with guitar duo. .We asked Mike to sing with us at open mic nights in the future. Mike gave us his business card. Open mike nights consist of 15 minutes of playing for $10 bar tabs. You see neither John or I our singers. So today John got a phone call from Mike saying he wanted to come to our practice session and Mike said he was going bring a bass guitar player along. John gave me a phone call about this news a possible audition with Mike. I told John "We need a singer and the fact that Mike could play guitar was also a plus in his favor ". I further told John " I was worried this could be repeat of my bad experience with Stonehenge." First off we don't need a third guitar player we already have two. I told John if he joined.. This could eventually lead to one of the guitar players getting squeezed out. I know whats its like to play with three guitar players eventually one of them bound to get forced out of the band and this will cause some ill feelings. If its John or I forced out. We are the founding fathers we own the PA system. Anyway I told John to tell this Mike fellow we just want to jam with him and we are not offering him a position in the band but it may lead to something. John was very direct to the point and said to Mike "We need a singer not another guitar player". Then Mike said "If I can' only sing and I can't have it my way and sing and play guitar I don't want to jam with you. Something tell me Mike was looking for something more than a jam, but a position in the band. Mike has never played with us. We met him and talked to for 5 minutes at the bar and he is telling us how to run our band. John thought Mike was pushy he was glad he did not accept Mikes condition "Take it Leave It" I bet this Mike does not any of our songs either. Well Mike said the bass player friend he had lined up was not going show up for our practice. I think this Mike guy would have been my way or the highway guy.Am I wrong to be paranoid and put fear in my friend John about a possible unpleasant situation? Does any body play in band with three guitar players? If so how do you get along.does it present some friction and competition and possible conflict? Anybody who wants to get this decision by our band in full context . May want to know my history with rock bands. Check my "Forced out of a band"Stonehenge harmony central page . This band shows how they used me and stole my $20 monitor and used me as a roadie .taxi driver flunky and did not pay me at gigs or buy me beer Cheated on me and hired three guitar players to take my place. 60 year old singer with Stonehenge got lung cancer ability to play guitar and walks with a cane recovers from cancer with radiation.Little like Aeroosmith takes too many drugs goes to rehab and come out sober and makes charts with top record. Let me know if you help us with our music ads. Maybe thats the problem they are not attracting enough attention. Let me know if you think we handled the situation with our wanna be band member Mike.

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I'll bite.

 

 

 

Stonehenge and $20 monitors aside, you think way too much and get way too far ahead of yourself. You're already worried about who might or might not get squeezed out of the band when you don't know if any of these people are cats who might want to play with.

 

 

 

You've had few responses to your ad. You're not really in much of a position to be picky. Don't count anyone out until you at least jam with them first.

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Guido61 says

 

 

Don't count anyone out until you at least jam with them first. Guido61 I like that statement and you had some good points. We should call this Mike back and say we would love to have him attend a practice session and audition. But I think we should pick four of our songs, and have Mike ahead of time learn the music and lyrics to these songs and have us learn one of Mike's songs,and schedule an audition.It sounded like Mike was coming tomorrow but we were not ready for him and Mike was not ready for us. I want to do this right I want him to know some of our songs before we audition him. If we call Mike and and say to him we were not thinking this thru when we said we don't want you to play guitar with us. . We misspoke Mike we meant to say Mike you can sing our songs, but we don't want you to play guitar with us yet, cause you don't know our material and music yet. We will give you three weeks to learn four songs then you can come and audition and sing and play guitar with us. We will give you an audition? Is it too late to do this and retract our statements?

 

I think the phone interview was intended to weed good band mates from bad band mates. Why waste somebodies time if we don't need another guitar player.A job interviewer does not interview every candidate that applies for a position in the company so why should a band to likewise. Companies don't give everybody a fair shot if they did they would hire every applicant and hire them on a no pay temporary basis to see if they are a good fit.

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You remind me a bit of an ad I saw a couple of weeks ago on Craigslist that cracked me up:

 

RONNIE JAMES DIO TRIBUTE BAND LOOKING FOR SINGER, BASSIST AND DRUMMER.

 

Then the guy running the ad (presumably the only actual member of this 'band') lists all the songs this 'band' will be playing and that, therefore, the singer should know.

 

Word up: you don't have a "Dio Tribute Band" just because you're a guitarist who wants to play a lot a Dio songs.

 

In your case, you're not really a band and you don't really have songs. You're just a couple of guys who play guitar who would like to form a band and have some fun. Find guys who similarly want to form a band, get together, jam some stuff out and see where it goes from there. It's not a bad idea to say "hey, let's all do at least these four songs so we at least have something we can all play together at the first jam" but A) it shouldn't take anybody 3 weeks to learn 4 songs and B) the more you try to micro manage a situation from the start without any real focus, experience or end game, you're only going to make it harder to find what you're ultimately looking for.

 

At this point, you're not really "auditioning" anyone. And you shouldn't already have decided which songs the band is going to play, You should just be jamming with some like-minded guys and letting it flow in the direction it wants to flow. What if Mike turns out to be a great singer but "your songs" aren't his strong suit? Wouldn't it make sense, in that case, to learn stuff he sings better?

 

Just pull back and relax the whole situation. This should be about something you want to have fun with. You're not putting together a band to back the Eagles on their next tour. You're just a couple of dudes who want to have some fun playing music in a band. Let it flow more naturally and easily.

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That kind of ad certainly attracts attention. Maybe our ads are not catchy enough.

 

Good News for our us. We have a drummer he wants to jam with John and I. I met him in March of this year and jammed with him on four songs. He lives a hour away but will jam on the condition we first get a bass player first.

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You have persuaded me we made a mistake.

 

I called Mike up told him to come audition and jam with with us on four or five songs "Green River,"Mississippi Queen","Taking Care of Business," "Born on the Bayou," "Were an American Band. Mike has agreed to the jam we will do one or two of his songs"Green River","Who will stop the Rain"? We will record him on my multitrack and see if he sounds any good. Let me know if you have any advice on how to proceed on this jam session. We are not promising Mike any position in the band. I am sure his intentions are to be our vocalist and guitar player. I will let you know how this audition goes.

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Let me know if you have any advice on how to proceed on this jam session.

 

Just have fun. You will either all like playing together and have a good time or you won't. If you have a good time, you'll want to do it again. If you don't..you won't.

 

This isn't rocket science.

 

We will record him on my multitrack and see if he sounds any good.

 

Do that if you want I suppose, but I want to ask why you think you need to? It should be pretty obvious from just playing with someone whether they can sing or not. You should be able to tell in 30 seconds whether the guy is a good singer or not.

 

The reason why it's probably a mistake to do it is you risk spending way too much time setting up mics, getting levels, stopping and starting songs, etc. when you should just be playing. It isn't a recording session. You're just getting together to hang out and to make some music to see if you guys even like each other (both personally and musically) enough to want to be in a band together.

 

A multi-track recording?? You're not making an album. In my nearly 40 years of doing this, I've never multi-tracked a rehearsal, let alone an audition.

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