One foot in the door, one foot out the door

[Outkaster]

I have an interesting member in my group that has an issue and is just not aware of it. The type of project we have now requires dedication from its members so much that we don’t ever use subs. Our one member plays in a five piece group as a drummer and likes it’s relaxed no pressure feel. He also subs with a band that I sometimes sub with some younger guys. I don’t have a problem most of the time because it doesn’t interfere with the present project that much if it all.

 

To give you some background this was the guy that I auditioned last with when I was looking into drummers. He’s a good guy plays reasonably well but has a “one foot in the door and one foot out the door” kind of mentality. He goes to other people for answers in the musician community, things I can help him with, and I always find out about it. He complained about a lot of gigs we did over the summer. I understand that is how musicians are and I know it’s impossible to control what people say or do but it bothers us that he doesn’t feel this project is “enough” It’s strange because we are better marketed, have more gigs, do more high profile gigs, sell more merchandise, have a CD and videos online. He has almost none of that in his other projects.

 

It’s weird also because he shows up to rehearsal and is pretty reliable and I am thankful about that part. I just feel like this guy is committed kind of on his terms. He won't do anymore or step up to the plate anymore then he is comfortable with. It's odd, but my co-manager and one other member notices it now and I worried it will become a problem and at some point the guys going resign by springing it on us all of a sudden.

[SpaceNorman]

...I just feel like this guy is committed kind of on his terms. He won't do anymore or step up to the plate anymore then he is comfortable with....

 

Aren't we all committed to the things we commit to on our own terms? My commitments are certainly NOT on somebody else's terms! Don't we all do / step up to whatever our personal comfort level is? Regardless of what area of my life, my contribution to my day gig, my bands, my sports teams, etc. - are always in line with my "personal comfort level". When I'm no longer comfortable with my perceived return on my contribution - I move on.

 

As I read your post - it seems like you're OK with his availability (for gigs and rehearsals with your band). You're OK with his playing. You didn't mention anything specific about where he's not carrying his weight in terms of his involvement with your band. What I suspect you're really saying in your post is that this guy isn't giving you the warm and fuzzy sense about his level of commitment that you wish he was. I'd guess that more than anything - it may well be the fact that you're aware of him chatting it up in the musician community that's your biggest source of "uneasiness" about his commitment to your band.

 

I'd cut him a lot of some slack with regards to his chatting it up in the musician community. Even though I'm very happy with my current projects, I tend not to talk about my happiness when I'm out and about with other musicians. I don't want musicians that I meet to think that I'm so happy with my current projects that I'm not willing to consider other opportunities and therefore completely unavailable. I much rather have folks thinking I might be willing to make change - so that new opportunities come my way. It would take a pretty sweet deal to get me to make changes - but, hey, I'd rather have the opportunity to listen and turn potential projects down than never hear about them at all because somebody else thought I'm too happy where I'm at to even think about change. As long as he's not explicitly bad mouthing his current bandmates - and continues to carry his weight with your band - I'd ignore whatever you see/hear about his dealings in the musician community at large.

 

I've felt this way about band mates at various points in my musical history too. When I have - I've always tried to "fly by instrument" - focusing solely on what that person does - not what they say and/or how they say it. A guy who is available for band activities (i.e., gigs and rehearsals, plays acceptably well, shows up prepared for gigs and rehearsals and carries his own weight in terms of the work that needs to be done has all the ingredients of being a good band mate - even if he isn't saying the things you wish he would about his long term commitment to the group.

[Vito Corleone]

Even in bands I've been in with most stable lineups imaginable, you always have to realize that anyone can leave at anytime for almost any reason. People have lives that only make their commitment to the band as strong as the rest of their lives will allow.

 

We all live our lives that way and it isn't just commitment to bands. Jobs and relationships are the same.

 

With other bandmates I always have one eye open for the "whatever might happen". If you're worried this guy will up and quit one day, then think about what you would do if that were to happen. Keep your eye out on other drummers that are out there that you might have to tap to fill the spot.

[Outkaster]

I much rather have folks thinking I might be willing to make change - so that new opportunities come my way. It would take a pretty sweet deal to get me to make changes - but, hey, I'd rather have the opportunity to listen and turn potential projects down than never hear about them at all because somebody else thought I'm too happy where I'm at to even think about change.

 

 

That's the problem with a lot of musicians scenes. Everyone is always looking for something better. 75% of musicians I meet or work with are lazy. No one wants to invest in a project or only enough that if they have to bail no one will get hurt. The problem with a lot of places in the Northeast and I suspect everywhere, is a pick up band culture fuc-s up everything. Everyone plays the same songs, uses the same rotating members and as a result you have a lot of mediocrity amongst musicians. Nothing is every new and rehashed material. It’s amazing because a lot of these guys have been playing for 40 years or toured in some cases and they don’t have sh-t to show for it.

 

It’s not even chatting it up in the musician community I have a problem with. He’s not bad mouthing anyone or anything, It had to do with playing in this case. I am a drummer too and could have told him what to work on. As far as comfort level don’t tell me you’re not getting anywhere with your playing and when I call you up and you’re watching cartoons (this really happened). I do actually have a problem with his playing sometimes with his fills and investment in our style. A lot of it comes from laziness and personal investment in the music. I also believe that if it came down to us and his other trio he would pick that. Sometimes I wonder why it's so hard for people to work in one or two projects and take them as far as they can. You get a better return on their investment and a better product. You can't be in anytime of working relationship or organization on your own terms.

[SpaceNorman]

...Everyone is always looking for something better.....

 

You say that like that's a bad thing. Looking for something better is human nature. If you view that as a bad thing and as something that folks should not be doing - you're in for much disappointment. Better to focus your energy on making your band the best, most attractive situation out there so the everyone looking for something better won't find it! Lamenting the fact that everyone IS looking for something better will only hurt you in the end.

 

...I do actually have a problem with his playing sometimes with his fills and investment in our style.

 

This is in actionable issue. Articulate your concerns and give him a chance to "fix" the issue .... You then need to make the call as to whether or not you want to take action to replace him if/when his playing comes around.

 

...I also believe that if it came down to us and his other trio he would pick that. Sometimes I wonder why it's so hard for people to work in one or two projects and take them as far as they can. You get a better return on their investment and a better product. You can't be in anytime of working relationship or organization on your own terms.

 

I agree with you that you can't be in a working relationship on your own terms. But, I'd also point out that neither can you be in a working relationship on somebody else's terms either. A good working relationship requires that all parties communicate effectively, that there be respect for everybody's input ... as well as give and take in deciding the path that the group takes.

 

Although this post didn't make any mention of it - if my memory serves me right - you've commented in other posts that bands can't be a democracy and that bands need a strong leader to call the shots. Granted, I know nothing about how your band works .... but IF you're a "one guy calls the shots" organization that has issues with "everybody is always looking for something better" ... perhaps you're not creating a band environment that inspires commitment from it's members.

 

If your project is expects everybody to follow a program in which somebody else "calls the shots" .... it shouldn't be a surprise if the level of commitment some bandmates show isn't what you hope for.

 

 

 

[Outkaster]

I think I am creating a good environment for these guys, They have it easy. Our practice space is great, our support staff does things for free, our printing is done for free, hardly anything comes out of their pockets really. I don't think democracy works very well and I am not wanting anyone to do anything they are diametrically opposed to but showing up to practice and gigs is just part of it if you want to get anywhere. But then I again some people don't care. Maybe I know the answer to my own question. I lead the band so I signed up for it I guess.

[SpaceNorman]

I think I am creating a good environment for these guys....

 

I think the question you need to ask yourself is whether or not your band mates feel like it's their band too. If you're not happy with the level of "commitment" your bandmates demonstrate .... well, you know where I'm going with this.

 

Speaking purely about my experiences - I have a completely different mindset when I'm in a band that runs under a "one guy calls the shots" organizational approach vs when I'm in a band that is a more democratic organization. In the "one guy calls the shots" bands - I know exactly where I stand. I'm part of "the help". In those situations, I do my job ... I learn the tunes, I play the gigs ... but I don't feel like it's my band. My commitment is to do the gigs I commit - but it's certainly not the commitment and enthusiasm that I bring to project that I'm part owner of!

 

When I'm in a band that is more democratic - I feel like it's my band too. That sentiment carries over into all aspects of the band. I tend to view the effort I put into the band as an investment. I have a voice in the direction the group takes. My level of commitment is very different when working in a democratic organization than when I'm working in a "one guy calls the shots" organization.

 

 

[Outkaster]

You don't need to go there I know what you are saying. Me and my other manager have given the members a lot of latitude. We have let them be part of songwriting, art direction, musical direction and anything else to share some responsibility if they wanted. Guess what? It fell flat not of them lift a fuc-in lended a hand. At the end of the day one person sometimes has to make decisions because people make half-assed attempts or are plain lazy. What I am supposed to do? things have to move forward. If people don't feel like it's their band they have to think to themselves why is that? I have been down this road before and doing it a long time and seen both sides of the issue.

[wades_keys]

Make sure you communicate. Example: You say you're not happy with some of the fills. Generally a better result happens if you can guide/direct or tell him what you would like to hear, versus what you wouldn't like to hear.

 

I deal with this myself in the blues trio: a lot of the times Matt is showing us the songs, in the fine "word of mouth" blues tradition. But that often means we don't have a reference recording....So if something sounds "off", how can we know? I've had to run interference on that issue a little: seek out live performances, try and get Matt to communicate what he DOES want to hear versus what not to do. Make sure as much as possible you have "reference recordings" to refer to: make them available.

 

And solicit input too: maybe every once in the while let the guy do the fills "his way"? It's frustrating when it feels like people are fighting each other, or in their own damn bubble.

 

Communication solves that to an extent. What you don't want to see is that stubbornness that comes when someone feels like they're not being heard or given a voice: the "outsider" mentality that kills any vibe on stage and in rehearsal. I don't have the answer but I'm always looking to break down barriers to communication. A bad sign is drummer looking down, sideways, or anywhere but at the crowd and/or bass player. Not good...that's just a bunch of guys doing their own thing, not a band.

[Outkaster]

I have already done that… in spades. Text, email, Facebook messenger and of course phone calls.

[wades_keys]

This is a pure guess but maybe the guy doesn't know where the plate is? (You mentioned "stepping up to the plate"). When I hear that phrase, I translate it to "expectations aren't being met". Well, what are those expectations? Have they been stated clearly? I think it's tricky stuff to try and figure out what motivates others, and it sounds to me like the guy is just protecting his gig by keeping the other band active. I mean: really it sounds like the bottom line is you want an exclusive commitment from the guy, or possibly you just don't like or connect or relate to/with him personally?

 

<ramble on>

I just started playing with a guy who has many years experience with blues, including backing some real heavy hitters in this area. That kind of music is his bag, you know, and he knows it very well. Me: I've been a student in the way that most other rockers were, but never got into the finer points. That kind of creates a disconnect: you know? I mean: I'm not in the SCENE, right? Also I'm an aggressive player who can come off as headstrong or attempting to 'hog the spotlight' (which is not true, but that's the chance you take when you have a confident approach).

 

So how do I let Matt know that I am a student, willing to learn the nuances of the music? Is my voice the correct voice? Too loud, too rude, too busy? Please tell me if so....just tell me is all I ask....because I play the way I do even though I am flexible....ultimately you have to like and appreciate my voice and approach on the instrument for it to work. But at the end of the day, I'm still not "in the scene" - I'm not a cliquester, I don't hang out with other "blues cats" or whatever.

 

Bottom line is too many times Jay I've been the guy you're talking about: accused of having a "one foot in, one foot out" mentality when all I've ever wanted to do is play music with joy and be a part of something that does the same. Make note of what the guy brings to the table, what his strengths are, and be prepared to embrace diversity. You might not get a "yes man" or a cheerleader, but you might get a real solid piece to the musical puzzle that you weren't even expecting. Tony Williams was apparently kind of hard to work with too, but man, listen to those DRUMS.

 

</ramble off>

[Outkaster]

I hear you. We are having a meeting this Friday with our support people (agent/sound engineer). Then we will take it to the band, We are very structured because we want to get to the next level. The money is in the festivals, brewery and winery scene. I do like this guy personally it's just his committment is very weird.

[wades_keys]

Outstanding Sounds like you've got it together pretty well.

 

I just got out of a band that was telling me they wanted to "go to the next level" but the dude wasn't doing anything at all to get it there, and the end result was they were saying I was "hard to work with". But I'm always mindful to put my money where my mouth is. I'd point out that other bands didn't require so much time to setup and tear down, and then I'd move the majority of the gear myself to back it up (while they'd disappear after the show). Stuff like that. And kept a decent level head too. Ultimately, yeah, if you're gonna tell me you are looking to go to the "next level" I kind of expect that you know how to do these types of things: the types of things that you clearly are doing.

 

Good job man.

[Vito Corleone]

Don't overthink the situation with him too much. If you're structured with a plan to get to the next level that everyone is on board with, then it should be pretty easy to suss out whether he's comfortable with it or not. And if you think he's got one foot in and one foot out then just make sure you keep one ear on the street in case you have to make a member switch in a hurry.

 

Taking that step up to the next level can sometimes be rough at first as it often requires a leap of faith for some members. It can sometimes involve pushing them out of their comfort zones with things like material and image and until the gigs and the money are fully there, they aren't always sure it's going to work or be something they really want to do. So he may be just going along for the ride and not wanting to fully commit until he feels more certain about where it's all going.

[Outkaster]

Last night developed into an argument with me and one singer. I was pissed but we worked out. Years ago someone also mentioned to me a lot of people are “afraid of success” I didn’t know what that meant now but I have a good idea. It’s weird. The drummer at this point will be OK I think.