Members wasjamieb Posted October 15, 2014 Members Share Posted October 15, 2014 Was doing a little research on the trend of using a dj rather than a band at a corporate event or wedding. I actually found a table on a dj website (peakdj.com) that argued their point using this table: [TABLE] [TR] Band DJ [/TR] [TR] [TD]Setup Flexibility: A band's setup is much more complex than that of a DJ. This can prevent a band from being able to cover the ceremony, cocktail hour and reception, all of which are usually held in separate locations.[/TD] [TD] Setup Flexibility: A well-organized and properly-equipped DJ can easily address the unique needs of weddings, with separate systems for the ceremony, cocktail hour and reception. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Breaks: Bands usually play about 20-30 songs, filling 1/2 to 2/3 of the time for which they are hired. The rest of the time, they take breaks, ending the momentum of the party. [/TD] [TD] Breaks: DJ's keep the music going (and your guests dancing) all night without taking breaks. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Stage Presence: People go out to see a band. They go out to danceto a DJ. Bands offer a stage presence that commands attention and works well for couples seeking to put on a "show" at their reception, rather than have non-stop dancing. [/TD] [TD]Stage Presence: Conversely, couples looking for a less intrusiveapproach may prefer a professional, unobtrusive DJ.... One who can maintain constant excitement on the dance floor and keep the focus of attention on the couple and their celebration (the dance floor), rather than on the DJ (the stage).[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Volume Level: Music volume levels are a serious concern for wedding guests who want to be able to converse at the reception. Bands have limited control over their sound levels and generally play much louder than a DJ. [/TD] [TD] Volume Level: The higher production quality of recorded music, with every instrument and vocal balanced in the studio, makes it sounds great at any volume level. This allows the DJ to adjust levels as necessary throughout the event. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Music Variety: Bands are limited to what songs they know how to play well. Many play the same 20-30 songs at every reception. Very few have the ability to play the vast array of musical genre required by the mixed age groups at most weddings. [/TD] [TD] Music Variety: A DJ can offer nearly limitless variety and flexibility, from classics to current. Being able to play Duke Ellington, Journeyand Katy Perry allows a DJ to create a truly tailored play list and keepall your guests happy. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Song Familiarity: People like to dance to music they know. Bands do their best to imitate the way a song should sound, but many bands lack the instruments for all the parts (no trumpet for the trumpet solos, etc.) and few have both a male and female vocalist. Listening to a less than spectacular band attempt to cover your favorite song can be a painful experience. [/TD] [TD] Song Familiarity: A DJ can play exactly the music you have imagined for your wedding: your favorite songs by your favorite artists that sound exactly as you and your guests expect them to sound. We live for those moments when we hit the start button and immediately hear a guest say "I love this song!" [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Reliability: If one member of a band can't do the event, trying to find someone to play the same instruments and know the parts of the other band members can be nearly impossible, thereby forcing the band to cancel. [/TD] [TD] Reliability: A reputable DJ company will always have another trained DJ on stand-by to cover an event when necessary. We regularly receive last-minute calls during the wedding season from couples who's bands or single-operator DJs have cancelled. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Cost: A great wedding band can cost several thousand dollars. [/TD] [TD] Cost: A great DJ can be had for under $2000. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Actually heard a dj using a lot of these selling points while trying to book a wedding. I am attempting to address each issue in this table individually with our band. Incidentally, we are looking at getting one of the Behringer mixers and will ATTEMPT to go IEM. Trying to convince the drummer to convert to e-drums is NOT going well. Thoughts? jamieb+++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 15, 2014 Members Share Posted October 15, 2014 Smart DJs are certainly going to try and sell what they see as their value points. Bands just have to convince potential customers that they are better and worth the extra money. My response to this would be: Setup Flexibility:We have smaller "satellite" setups and systems we use to cover these other elements of your event. But instead of just setting up another speaker to play even more boring recorded music for your ceremony or cocktail hour, we can perform LIVE at these as well. Breaks:Breaks, if any, are filled with DJ style dance music. Just like the DJ would do. The party keeps going. Stage Presence:Our shows are about the guests and audience and your event, not about the band. Yes, we're fun to watch but we're even more fun to participate with and get involved in the performance. You can get up on stage and party with a band and play rock star. Who wants to get up on stage and party with the DJ? BORING. Volume Level:The use of state of the art modern sound equipment results in very controlled and low-volume stage sound. The days of "limited control" over their sound levels are over. Music Variety:We cover all eras and genres of music in manners faithful to the originals. Duke, Journey, and Katy are all no problem. And besides, it's about knowing WHICH songs to play and how to perform them in the most entertaining manner possible, not simply having access to the largest playlist possible. If that's all you want, then just use your iPod or turn on Pandora. Song Familiarity:See above. And beyond being able to recreate the original versions of songs faithfully, our live band is able to take the performance to a higher and more exciting level. A DJ can spin a record that sounds just like the record. Big deal. My grandmother can do that. Reliability:When you hire a professional band, you're paying for their reliability as well. Cost:You get what you pay for. You're not going to feed your guests hamburgers and hot dogs are you? So why would you give them anything less than a top notch full-entertainment musical performance? I like the idea of putting together a similar Comparison Chart for our website. I think I'll get to work on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wasjamieb Posted October 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 15, 2014 David, I think I have a list similar to that from the band perspective. If I can find it again (should have bookmarked) I will send it to you. BTW, sent you a FB message, keyboard rig-related... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GtrGeorge! Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 This is a great thread. I was contacted by a VERY succesful DJ just a few weeks ago. He does very large weddings,Corporate events and even has a contract with a certain celebrity to work with them xxx times a year. And this "joker" calls me a week before his gig because he needs a classical guitarist for a wedding ceremony. He doesnt know of these certain songs........he promised them something he couldnt deliver. etc etc This guy is supposedly a major guy..but he doesn't give damn about the job, and its EVIDENT. I think most pro wedding bands HAVE to take it seriously or they can't exist Example: If they don't learn the latest songs etc This list is hilarious in certain aspects... I have met so many "jokers" who call hemselves DJs. Like the guy who "forgot" about a wedding he was booked for....Or the guy who had garbage speakers (some brand like Ling-Po) ..who said he was gonna use them to fill a 3,000 seater...! Whatever. Most of these monkeys have no idea what they are doing. They have no sense of class or appropriateness. Once I saw one blasting his audience with Techno music at 240bpm as someones grandma was introduced "Lets give it up for GrandMa!!" He blurted in the mic, as he held it like a GANGSTA, upside down and sideways to his mouth......a real class act,he was. She walked in,using her walker...as the music deafened everyone.....she used a walker.. Get the picture? Monkeys. If people want Monkeys at their event, fine! ... let them have Monkeys. For me, I had live music at my wedding and it was the best night of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 dave your post is right on! I like it and may use the basis for our wedding promo material. also I would like to add this FB post from a woman who attended a wedding we played over the weekend: Bands at weddings are much better than DJs. Drew is a top notch wedding date to tear up the dance floor with. And, of course, congratu-freakin-lations to Austin and his absolutely gorgeous wife(!) Katie. Sorry I didn't take any of the shots you tried to give me. Yesterday was awesome, you guys are awesome. Keep on doing awesome stuff you two! BANDS AT WEDDINGS ARE MUCH BETTER THAN DJs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wooo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wasjamieb Posted October 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 As I said, I heard a representative of a pretty big local dj company use these and similar selling points trying to woo a potential wedding client. He made the statement that they "used their lights to get everybody involved..." Huh? Check the statement that "a great dj can be had for "under $2000." Paying 1 guy "under $2000" ($1800?) to run a cd player? Let's see; if most songs are 3 minutes (I'm generalizing, but, bear with me), if he is running another cd player, takes 30 seconds to load and cue the next one. If he is using a laptop or something, even less. Then, you are paying him for doing nothing 5/6 of the time. For a 3-hour wedding, that averages out to 150 minutes of free money. For $1800, that is roughly 10 a minute, So he "earns" $300, with a $1500 tip... I know that's a bit satrical, but not by much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 That comparison chart is really well done. For somebody on the fence about spending extra for a live band, that could convince them otherwise. It really become incumbent upon the bands the sell themselves. The only thing a DJ can do that a band can't is have easy access to a gazillion songs. So the marketing key is to downplay that advantage, make sure that your band can do everything else a DJ might, and sell the things a DJ can never do. A DJ just simply can't throw a party and get an audience revved up and excited the same way a good band can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ski219 Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 I have never seen a DJ that was any less loud than a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 I have never seen a DJ that was any less loud than a band. But it's about perceptions. Why that comparison chart is good is because it plays into all the weaknesses of live bands---whether true or not. Everyone has heard a band that was too loud. That took too long of a break. That played a song that sounded nothing like the original. That was too obsessed with being "the show". The trick is to turn that back around on the DJs. Highlight THEIR weaknesses and emphasize the strengths of live music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ski219 Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 I know. I wasn't tackling the perceptions issue, just stating a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GuitarCol Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 That list is clearly from a DJ-centric POV, and a lot of it is plain wrong. Seriously, what wedding band doesn't have a male and a female singer? Many of the gigs I play have two of each. And they all make sure people are dancing all the time if they can do it - that claim is also BS. I think pointing out that a DJ is just a glorified boombox would be a good way to sell your band.... way more exciting to have a band there. Some of it would be correct if you put the word "some" in front of bands. That's one way you could turn this list to your advantage - use it as a list of problems you make sure you don't have..... i.e. "Some bands have volume problems. Ours doesn't because we use to make sure we don't play too loud." And back it up by showing it. I have played gigs where someone sitting at a table 3 yards away needed to be able to talk, and done it successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted October 16, 2014 Members Share Posted October 16, 2014 Of course it's skewed. And a lot of it applies if you hire a typical bar band that knows absolutely nothing about playing wedding/corporate events. It's yet another differentiate why you should hire an event centric band for something like an all out wedding. If it's a low key reception with no expectations, hire the bar band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GtrGeorge! Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes..agreed, it all hinges on selling. UNDERSTANDING what a cleint needs and delivering it. There are bad and good bands, and I am sure its true for DJs,too. I think DJs have an upper hand because they are newer and many bands have ruined the market by NOT giving what the client needed. So they have a clean slate....live music less so. Its tricky, I know, but I feel thats the truth. Hey, it's all good...Ive been at this a while and people who have seen me ...want me back. I feel very blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 The cover industry is decorum. Period. Means basically live bands gotta do a metaphor for entertainment and manually at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think DJs have an upper hand because they are newer and many bands have ruined the market by NOT giving what the client needed. So they have a clean slate....live music less so. I agree with what you're saying, but not sure what this means. DJs are newer? You mean as in they haven't been part of the business as long? Well, I guess, but DJs have been around for 30 years. Most audiences aren't much older than that. So I don't think the concept of a DJ is any fresher to the people. . But if the band is selling a more stale product..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 The cover industry is decorum. Period. Means basically live bands gotta do a metaphor for entertainment and manually at that. Entertainment is entertainment. The songs you play are simply some of the tools you use to reach people and move them. If you can do that with covers? Great, Originals? Great. A monkey in a hat playing the cymbals? Great. Reach people. Move them, Entertainment them. Have fun doing so. Collect the commensurate paycheck, Mission accomplished. "cover bands gotta do a metaphor for entertainment"?? What the f' does that even mean?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 Entertainment is entertainment. The songs you play are simply some of the tools you use to reach people and move them. If you can do that with covers? Great, Originals? Great. A monkey in a hat playing the cymbals? Great. Reach people. Move them, Entertainment them. Have fun doing so. Collect the commensurate paycheck, Mission accomplished. "cover bands gotta do a metaphor for entertainment"?? What the f' does that even mean?? Yeah but you're talking competing with DJs who are basically all tech. If they can flap their lips like a radio guy that's the show. Cover bands because what else do you do for conventions weddings etc? And as decorum and because most bands aren't that good, the output is a metaphor at best. This is the good time you're having. lol. And of course it's vital income if not a career for many but to get to the level of your simple MP3 guy, you need sequenced tracks, star quality fromt people, people with killer looks and stage credibility besides they can actually make music with their instruments. What's that run anyway? 20K for something "kinda like that"? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 It is what it is. Nobody has ever said making money in this business was easy. Part of the reason (IMO anyway) that live music has such a bad rep is that too many lazy people have been satisfied with being the crappiest band they can get away with being because they are more concerned with having fun than working hard. Are more concerned with THEM having fun than their audiences being entertained but still wanting to be paid for performing live. It's not about the technology. It's not about using tracks or not. It's about being good at what you do and reaching the crowd and moving them in a manner appropriate for the gig you're hired for. (If we're talking about weddings, there are certain marks you have to hit. Other types of gigs will be different. Not every band is the best for every sort of gig,) If being a sufficient DJ is easier than being a sufficient band for a certain type of gig, so be it. Go be a DJ if you want get by with having to work less, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 We finally agree on something. Except the technology. I think Spielberg first demonstrated how a modern show goes. Careful development, no redundancy, split second timing, Prolly volumes more than I can perceive. Suffice it to say entertainment has become a science. Live music is no different. Big acts are all about the big bucks look and sound. No bunch of humans could do that kind of show without computer assist. Granted wild party bands can make it on rapport but how dependable can that kind of company be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'll only add that "it depends". Depending on the act and the gig, a guy with nothing but an acoustic guitar and a voice can still be just as entertaining if he's good enough. But yes, I agree--the "big show" type acts are becoming more and more reliant on modern technology. The trick to that is it needs to be used for good and not for evil. If it's working to make the show bigger and better---great! But if it's being used simply as a crutch to lessen the amount of band members that need to be paid or otherwise cut corners? Not so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 17, 2014 Members Share Posted October 17, 2014 As to the guitar guy. Star quality a must. It is after all a solo gig. I don't think him and a DJ would be in direct competition though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wasjamieb Posted October 18, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 18, 2014 ...Part of the reason (IMO anyway) that live music has such a bad rep is that too many lazy people have been satisfied with being the crappiest band they can get away with being because they are more concerned with having fun than working hard. Are more concerned with THEM having fun than their audiences being entertained but still wanting to be paid for performing live... I have seen this way too much. And, unfortunately, have been in a few of those bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GtrGeorge! Posted October 26, 2014 Members Share Posted October 26, 2014 This thread is probably abandoned by now BUT...when I said DJs may seem newer. I mean,they aren't as over exposed as a band is,..in terms of what is available as entertainment. Bands seem old hat to some people. DJs seem..I said "seem"....as a newer alternative for music at an event, To a client...that's what the perception is, Those clients to be specific are 30-55 yrs old and have the income to hire you. 20 year old people who don't have any means are not those people..although they talk alot as of if they were. Remember in these tough times..young people just starting out really have no equity at all. Just lots of bills. Back OT: As its been said..its about connecting and entertaining, Both DJs and musicians can accomplish both,,although most DJs and Musicians don't see it as a job. They think of it as fun..and thus do a crap job at it. When its a job,you set your alarm for 6am to learn the latest song before your day job. When its a job, you make it your bizness to find out what clients want..and you deliver it. When its fun...it's all about the musicians love of themselves..or the DJs love of themselves.It's very alienating to the audience,actually. I LOVE my job of making music with real instruments, ..and while I respect DJs (there are some good ones)..the dynamic nature of guitars,bass,keys and vocals is really great at CONNECTING with people. This is what Ive seen,and yes, I'm booked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted October 26, 2014 Members Share Posted October 26, 2014 It's definitely a job with all the gear we bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GtrGeorge! Posted October 27, 2014 Members Share Posted October 27, 2014 We could bring less gear...but depending on your genre, you HAVE to bring the tools to get those sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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