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  • Old dudes, shorts, music stands, baseball cap, & KICKASS

     

     

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLrC7e3vSv8


  • #2
    That is fantastic. I mean, they're a duo, and they're sitting, and the crowd is sitting politely and reacts with clapping and audible compliments, but they do sound truly phenomenal. It seems to fit the gig okay. I really like, obviously their voices too, but the bass/guitar instrumentation sounds great. Every duo around here doubles up on guitar if there are two instruments.
    <div class="signaturecontainer">Free prog-related metal from Michigan.<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.silentlapse.com" target="_blank">http://www.silentlapse.com</a></div>

    Comment


    • SaintJames
      SaintJames commented
      Editing a comment

      rangefinder wrote:

      C'mon man, who really cares about "lying by omission"? Compared, say, to the many major acts that have released "Live" albums recorded entirely in the studio and overdubbed as usual, with fake crowd cheers added in?


       

      I don't know, I like to think the artists I support have at least a little integrity.

      Hey, I'm not saying these guys in the video aren't talented and worthy of praise. I would enjoy watching them while munching down my pepperoni slice. I just think they were being dishonest by not admitting to the post-production in the video's description. They obviously wanted people to think this was all straight out of the PA speakers. They didn't neglect to put a link to their song on itunes, though. 

       


    • SeeU 22
      SeeU 22 commented
      Editing a comment

      SaintJames wrote:

      rangefinder wrote:

      C'mon man, who really cares about "lying by omission"? Compared, say, to the many major acts that have released "Live" albums recorded entirely in the studio and overdubbed as usual, with fake crowd cheers added in?


       

      I don't know, I like to think the artists I support have at least a little integrity.

      Hey, I'm not saying these guys in the video aren't talented and worthy of praise. I would enjoy watching them while munching down my pepperoni slice. I just think they were being dishonest by not admitting to the post-production in the video's description. They obviously wanted people to think this was all straight out of the PA speakers. They didn't neglect to put a link to their song on itunes, though. 

       


      Most muscians would realize that this performance was mutli tracked and assume some  post production. Not that the audio is great, but it is too good for some cheap camera mic. It's very obvious that this isn't "room audio." Most musicians also are aware of the subtle ability mutli tracking techniques have to make a  mix sound good. Most musicians also know that studio magic isn't going to turn Britney Spears into  Mariah Carey.

      The general public however isn't as educated. I see tons of you tube vidoes that are very much live and not overly pitch perfect, yet the comments are always full of know it alls acusing the poster of using autotune. It just seems in the you tube community accusing someone of using autotune has become the insult de jour. I would suspect that most of the commentors couldn't tell the difference between two versions of the same performance, one with auto tune and one with out.

      While there are some truly live videos out there the bulk of the what you see on you tube or MTV when they used to play videos is a performance to prerecorded audio. These guys atleast recorded the audio live.

      Neil


    • JailTime
      JailTime commented
      Editing a comment

      SeeU 22 wrote:

      SaintJames wrote:

      rangefinder wrote:

      C'mon man, who really cares about "lying by omission"? Compared, say, to the many major acts that have released "Live" albums recorded entirely in the studio and overdubbed as usual, with fake crowd cheers added in?


       

      I don't know, I like to think the artists I support have at least a little integrity.

      Hey, I'm not saying these guys in the video aren't talented and worthy of praise. I would enjoy watching them while munching down my pepperoni slice. I just think they were being dishonest by not admitting to the post-production in the video's description. They obviously wanted people to think this was all straight out of the PA speakers. They didn't neglect to put a link to their song on itunes, though. 

       


       

      The general public however isn't as educated. I see tons of you tube vidoes that are very much live and not overly pitch perfect, yet the comments are always full of know it alls acusing the poster of using autotune. It just seems in the you tube community accusing someone of using autotune has become the insult de jour.

      Neil


       

      I've tried to doctor the audio on a few videos without nearly the success that these guys have had.  As Blue Strat alludes to - you can make vocals sound bad with too much of or not the right kind of effects.  They seem to have as much talent and expereince twisting the knobs as they do plucking strings and singing.  And they look much better in videos from 2013 than in 2010. 


  • #3
    I don't know... I think it has everything to do with their presentation. They obviously sound amazing. But they look like exactly what they're doing. It's a chicken and egg thing. Maybe that's all they strive for. And that's fine. But like I said, the audience response is what you would expect from a seated duo in shorts, not from a band that sounds as good as they do. Again though, they're a duo, doing what duos do, extremely well. That's what your niche will be if that's how you present yourself.
    <div class="signaturecontainer">Free prog-related metal from Michigan.<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.silentlapse.com" target="_blank">http://www.silentlapse.com</a></div>

    Comment


    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment

      MartinC wrote:

      It's hard to say. No doubt they could look better. But in other vids they are dressed better and playing the same place. They could get a few more guys and put together a really good band based on their vocal talent. Get a great female singer, some costumes and they are a corporate act. But, to me, bottom line, the lead guy is a fantastic vocalist, the bass player a solid harmony singer. They can play well enough for the material, and overall, most anyone who digs the kind of music they do would be really impressed. If you look at some of the comments, there are people offering to promote gigs for them in other cities. I think it's deserved.


      what the bottom line is that its prolly a 200 dollar show and no matter what you do ,, it still has to fit into a benji a man budget due to venue constraints like seats in the bar and no cover charge.  So they pick up a benji and split  up 60 bucks on the tip jar.  


    • SLScott86
      SLScott86 commented
      Editing a comment
      Absolutely! They're awesome! And for what they're doing, all those things are fine. But in the context of where this stuff draws the most criticism, people aiming for what Grant does for example, you could never, ever get away with it. These guys are doing something else though, and for what they're doing, they're good enough that they could get by with any look that would grant them entrance to a 7 Eleven.

    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment

      SLScott86 wrote:
      Absolutely! They're awesome! And for what they're doing, all those things are fine. But in the context of where this stuff draws the most criticism, people aiming for what Grant does for example, you could never, ever get away with it. These guys are doing something else though, and for what they're doing, they're good enough that they could get by with any look that would grant them entrance to a 7 Eleven.

      Apples and oranges.  Grant loads in a big pa  and backline , lights and all the support team and stuff that goes with it that makes up  their show.  These guys can roll in with a couple powered speakers and a bass amp a little FX mixer and two mics and stands,,, , set up in 30 mins play three sets and load out in 30 mins and walk away with a buck thirty each  or more... and do it 4 and 5 nights a week and odds are its all cash and dont have to deal with keeping a whole band up with all the extra fluff , running and booked 


  • #4
    I know. I play solo. I use an iPad. I look like a guy. I make money. Buy I would never ever ever suggest it meant my band could get away with the same thing. Except making money. That would be cool.
    <div class="signaturecontainer">Free prog-related metal from Michigan.<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.silentlapse.com" target="_blank">http://www.silentlapse.com</a></div>

    Comment


    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment

      SLScott86 wrote:
      I know. I play solo. I use an iPad. I look like a guy. I make money. Buy I would never ever ever suggest it meant my band could get away with the same thing. Except making money. That would be cool.

      The Ipad is just a modern music stand.   Gigs are what they are and markets are what they are.  You fit the show to the gig.    In a hundred dollar a man scene you give them a hundred dollar a man production because typically its budget that set what they pay due to seats in the room.  


  • #5
    Tim, we're in total agreement. My sole point was that this is like posting an example of a delicious Michigan apple in Orange forum where people talk about proper orange growing conditions, then saying "grown in Michigan, still Delicious!"
    <div class="signaturecontainer">Free prog-related metal from Michigan.<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.silentlapse.com" target="_blank">http://www.silentlapse.com</a></div>

    Comment


    • guido61
      guido61 commented
      Editing a comment

      Apples and oranges.   Chicken or the egg.

      Here's my take on all of this:

      We all know there are acts out there that are so hot and fantastic musically that it doesn't matter what they look like or what sort of visual show they put on.  

      We also all know there are acts out there that put on such a great show that it doesn't matter how weak they might be musically.

      But for the other 99% of us?   We're all just trying to find that best blend of elements with which we can be as successful as we hope to be within the context of who we are as musicians and as performers and as people and within the market we work in.

      As far as these guys go?   You'd have to ask them.   No doubt they are great musicians.  Their look?  Not so much.  The gig they are playing....?   Can't judge without more information.

      If they are doing the gigs they want the way they want and getting the type of money and audience response they expect and are happy with it?   Then obviously they are nailing it.   But if they are hoping for something "more"?  (Whatever "more" might be for them.)  Then they probably have to start looking at things within their act and business model that they could maybe do better/differently.

      Just like the rest of us.


    • TIMKEYS
      TIMKEYS commented
      Editing a comment

      guido61 wrote:

      Apples and oranges.   Chicken or the egg.

      Here's my take on all of this:

      We all know there are acts out there that are so hot and fantastic musically that it doesn't matter what they look like or what sort of visual show they put on.  

      We also all know there are acts out there that put on such a great show that it doesn't matter how weak they might be musically.

      But for the other 99% of us?   We're all just trying to find that best blend of elements with which we can be as successful as we hope to be within the context of who we are as musicians and as performers and as people and within the market we work in.

      As far as these guys go?   You'd have to ask them.   No doubt they are great musicians.  Their look?  Not so much.  The gig they are playing....?   Can't judge without more information.

      If they are doing the gigs they want the way they want and getting the type of money and audience response they expect and are happy with it?   Then obviously they are nailing it.   But if they are hoping for something "more"?  (Whatever "more" might be for them.)  Then they probably have to start looking at things within their act and business model that they could maybe do better/differently.

      Just like the rest of us.


      Pretty much ,,, you have to find that balance between what you are willing to do vs what you expect to gain by it.   It is pretty easy to end up way top heavy on production, travel, gear and members  and hassle when you really start really looking at the situation especially when its a person that has a pretty cut and dried day job or investments that makes them all the money they need.  


  • #6
    I think it's pretty safe to surmise that their skill in getting gigs is lessor than even their fashion sense, unless one of them owns the pizza joint.
    They really could use an agent, or considering the number of views from that one cover alone, a manager. Nevertheless, they sound great. They should dress better and lose the music stand, and stand up and move around though for their own good IMO.

    Comment


    • guido61
      guido61 commented
      Editing a comment

      tlbonehead wrote:

       

       


      You came up with the goofy tuning thing, not me. Has nothing to do with your opinion on what constitutes good vs bad clothing. I suppose these guys are walking on our lawn everyday too?


      Just making an analogy that just because a band gets by with something, doesn't make it good.  And it being purposeful doesn't make it better.


    • tlbonehead
      tlbonehead commented
      Editing a comment

      guido61 wrote:

      tlbonehead wrote:

       

       


      You came up with the goofy tuning thing, not me. Has nothing to do with your opinion on what constitutes good vs bad clothing. I suppose these guys are walking on our lawn everyday too?


      Just making an analogy that just because a band gets by with something, doesn't make it good.  And it being purposeful doesn't make it better.


      As in, your version of better, right? The insurance salesman look?


    • guido61
      guido61 commented
      Editing a comment
      The insurance salesman look? No, that would probably be as bad on stage as looking like a gas station attendant.

      My version of "better" is a purposeful look that enhances the image of the band. "Not caring" can work for some bands, but it only works when, again, it's done purposefully and right. The grunge look of the 90s was presented as a "not caring" response to the careful images of the 80s bands. But as we can see in retrospect, those flannel shirts, shorts and Doc Martins were every bit as planned as was Motley Crue's getup.

      Not caring about your look on stage is just as foolish as not caring about your guitar tone. The audience is there to take in the whole package.

      You can choose whatever look works to enhance your act. And, I suppose that could include insurance salesman and gas station attendant as well. All depends on the act.

      As a general rule, I use audience comments as a gauge. If several gigs go by and nobody comments on my keyboard sounds or playing being good, or the bands vocals being good or the PA system sounding good, I start to worry that maybe I'm not doing something right. A connection is not being made. Similarly if no one says I look good, or the stage show and lights aren't good, then I've not made that connection either.

      It's all part of the same live-performance package.

  • #7
    http://www.uaudio.com/interfaces/apollo-twin.html

    Sound glorious for only $900 on eBay.
    NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

    Comment


    • #8
      The autotune is incredibly evident on their cover of No Rain. I don't believe any of these YouTube videos. I can't believe people think those Boyce Avenue guys are doing those recordings as live takes. Puh-lease

      Comment


      • #9
        Yea no doubt the average patron walks in, goes over a check list then turns around and walks out after seeing these guys.

        The grapes are sour and strong with this one...
        <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue">Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.</font> <br />
        <br />
        <font size="1">The show, no matter how retarded, must go on. This is why musicians drink so much, alcohol helps them cope with facts by enveloping their brains and auditory senses in a haze of thickly applied B.S.<br />
        </font><br />
        </div>

        Comment


        • guido61
          guido61 commented
          Editing a comment

          vanlatte wrote:
          Yea no doubt the average patron walks in, goes over a check list then turns around and walks out after seeing these guys.

          The grapes are sour and strong with this one...

          I don't think anyone is saying the crowd that goes to the pizza joint doesn't like them.   I'm certain they do.  I'm certain I would.

          I don't see any sour grapes here.  


      • #10
        Uh, no they don't bother me at all. I think they sound great. Where did I ever say otherwise? I agreed with everything you said about them except to say we don't know enough for anyone on either side to say anything definatively?

        Why is it that even when I go out if my way to see both sides of an issue you insist on making it an argument anyway?

        _________________________________________________
        band websites:
        http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
        https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
        https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
        http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

        Comment


        • SaintJames
          SaintJames commented
          Editing a comment

          I can't help but wonder if this video would have gotten 2.5 million views if the YT video title had read this:

          "Africa (acoustic Toto cover USING AUTO-TUNE ON THE VOCALS)"

          ...or anywhere else in the video description for that matter.


      • #11
        The extent to which autotune is blamed for making bad singers sound good is over rated. It can only do so much.
        _________________________________________________
        band websites:
        http://www.JumpStartYourParty.com
        https://www.gigmasters.com/Rock/Jump-Start
        https://www.facebook.com/JumpStartYourParty
        http://www.weddingwire.com/biz/jumps...587fe5f12.html

        Comment


        • #12
          Yup. It will fix a pitch, bit of the pitch or tone is unsteady, it will still sound weird.
          <div class="signaturecontainer">Free prog-related metal from Michigan.<br />
          <br />
          <a href="http://www.silentlapse.com" target="_blank">http://www.silentlapse.com</a></div>

          Comment


          • #13

            They would be awesome on many levels if they covered "Yah Mo B There" by James Ingram and Michael McDonald.

            Comment


            • TIMKEYS
              TIMKEYS commented
              Editing a comment

              BlueStrat wrote:
              T, funny you should mention "wish you were here."I saw live concert of David Gilmour recorded a few years ago and the vocals were way more dry than they were on the record. He used delay in some places, but the reverb was nearly nonexistent.

              I don't know, I just find bands that go heavy on the reverb and delay for vocals in clubs seem to get the vocals lost in the mix more than running them on the dry side. To each his own I suppose.

              Last month I pulled out my old copy of Springsteens "Nebraska" cd and the reverb and delay on some songs was so heavy it's almost unlistenable . I remember that's how we rolled in the 80s though.

              I really dont like much  straight reverb on vocals its too easy to get that underwater effect.  A little slap back typically sounds better to my ear.  Soaked in reverb just sounds kind of cheap for lack of a better term.  Down here on the coast where every building is built to survive a hurricane its tough to get good live sound indoors.  You almost have to design the room to have a good live indoor intertainment venue.  I am fortunate enough to play in the best indoor venue for acoustics on the island.  Lots of thought went into it to turn whats a cement block bar room into a good live music venue.  The secret , a half wall between the bar and the main room and umbrella tables indoors that work as sound baffles and lots of  curved surfaces.   The stage is also filled with sand and is in the corner.   The best are the outdoor polapa bars with a roof and a place for the sound to escape.   


            • tlbonehead
              tlbonehead commented
              Editing a comment

              BlueStrat wrote:
              T, funny you should mention "wish you were here."I saw live concert of David Gilmour recorded a few years ago and the vocals were way more dry than they were on the record. He used delay in some places, but the reverb was nearly nonexistent.

              I don't know, I just find bands that go heavy on the reverb and delay for vocals in clubs seem to get the vocals lost in the mix more than running them on the dry side. To each his own I suppose.

              Last month I pulled out my old copy of Springsteens "Nebraska" cd and the reverb and delay on some songs was so heavy it's almost unlistenable . I remember that's how we rolled in the 80s though.

              I use little or no reverb on vocs ordinarily. Usually just a bit of delay. I hate the 80s arena reverb sound that seemed to be pastered onto the whole mix. Especially that "Outfield" sound.

               


            • SeeU 22
              SeeU 22 commented
              Editing a comment

              tlbonehead wrote:

              BlueStrat wrote:
              T, funny you should mention "wish you were here."I saw live concert of David Gilmour recorded a few years ago and the vocals were way more dry than they were on the record. He used delay in some places, but the reverb was nearly nonexistent.

              I don't know, I just find bands that go heavy on the reverb and delay for vocals in clubs seem to get the vocals lost in the mix more than running them on the dry side. To each his own I suppose.

              Last month I pulled out my old copy of Springsteens "Nebraska" cd and the reverb and delay on some songs was so heavy it's almost unlistenable . I remember that's how we rolled in the 80s though.

              I use little or no reverb on vocs ordinarily. Usually just a bit of delay. I hate the 80s arena reverb sound that seemed to be pastered onto the whole mix. Especially that "Outfield" sound.

               


              When I think of "The Outfield" I think of "Your Love" and the vocal on that song has a slap delay on it. The rest of the mix is soaked in reverb.

              Neil


          • #14
            Moving heads suck without haze.


            :,(
            NO SIGNATURE FOR YOU!!

            Comment


            • #15
              I think the universe would implode if guido was to ever acknowledge something positive about anything music related without some sort of caveat or "Yea but..." tacked on.
              <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue">Wave upon wave of demented avengers march cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.</font> <br />
              <br />
              <font size="1">The show, no matter how retarded, must go on. This is why musicians drink so much, alcohol helps them cope with facts by enveloping their brains and auditory senses in a haze of thickly applied B.S.<br />
              </font><br />
              </div>

              Comment


              • guido61
                guido61 commented
                Editing a comment

                vanlatte wrote:
                I think the universe would implode if guido was to ever acknowledge something positive about anything music related without some sort of caveat or "Yea but..." tacked on.

                It isn't just music.

                I'm having "yea but..." engraved on my tombstone.



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