How do you get out to your pedal board and back?

[Pinkycramps]

Ok. So I built a rack system a while back, that goes something like this:

Furman power conditioner
X2 wireless (rackmount, bought before the pedal board system was available, and before Line6 bought them out).
Korg rackmount tuner.
TC G Maj.2
Voodoo GCX Audio Switcher. (used for a couple of stompboxes, and to switch channels on my Mesa Mark V)

On my pedal/control board I have a Ground Control Pro, a Mark Tremonti Wah (love it cuz it's instant on/off), a volume pedal, and an expression pedal for controling various fx of the Gmaj2.

Here is the problem: My sig path is too long for my liking. I have to run a 20 foot cable out of the rack to get to the pedal board to use my Vol pedal and wah, then 20 feet back to the rack. I built a nice all in one snake with Monster Cables, Midi cable, AC power, but I degrade my signal and create noise with the 40 feet of cable run.

I know many pro's use rack setups, and have wah pedals, volume pedals and other stomp boxes out front. How do you set something like that up? Of course, I know I could eliminate 20 feet by getting a pedal board wireless receiver (in fact, I could use 2 units and have NO cable run I guess...), but really don't want to drop $400 on that. I know I could use a volume control from the Gmaj2, but I'm not willing to give up my wah, and don't like the rack mount wah's I've tried.
Any other thoughts here? How do the pro's do it?

Thanks guys.

By the way, I know it says it's my first post, but I am a returning member from a few years ago with a new account. I used to be blisteredpinky, but I couldn't get that to come up again.

[bvester]

Tinker around with buffer(s) in the chain to counteract the long cable runs. Use high quality cable to minimize tone loss.

Or do what I do: use an Axe-Fx

[Pinkycramps]

Thanks. Ya, I've thought about that, and I guess that is prolly what most guys do with this setup. The thing is though, the GCX has a buffer in it, and I run out of the wireless to the buffered input of the GCX, then out to the pedal board, then back to the first loop of the GCX. (ah heck, I THINK that's what I do, without looking at the spagettii !)

I'm still not totally happy with the signal quality though. I have though about putting a buffer/booster stopbox on the board too, but I don't know what having two buffers would do to the signal? I'd think that would be too much, or introduce a new kind of noise?

I've also thought about getting a stompbox type wireless (line6) , and going wireless straght to the board, and then use my other transmitter on the board to take the signal back to the rack, but I've never seen anyone do that, and it sounds crazy to me.

I know that plenty of guys use pedals out front, with FX in a rack, and use wireless, so I'm looking for some thoughts on how most people go about it. For some reason my setup seems overly complicated to me...

I'm sure with all of the crazy monster racks I've seen on this board that someone has some input to give here?

[Hchan23]

Using the RJM RG-16 and Voodoo Lab GCP combo. Liking that so far.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Originally Posted by Pinkycramps

Here is the problem: My sig path is too long for my liking. I have to run a 20 foot cable out of the rack to get to the pedal board to use my Vol pedal and wah, then 20 feet back to the rack. I built a nice all in one snake with Monster Cables, Midi cable, AC power, but I degrade my signal and create noise with the 40 feet of cable run.

Why do you have to have the rack 20 feet behind you?
Put it next to you on the side. Run a long speaker cord to your speaker cabinet if you don't have it next to you and it has to be 20 feet back.

[Pinkycramps]

well the rack connexts to the FX loop of the amp, and those two need to sit close to each other. It all sits on the backline, or sometimes off the side of the stage depending on how big the stage is and how much room I get.

I think I'm gonna just put a buffer on the board though. I haven't tried that yet, and it seems to be a pretty good solution to quite a few people on here...

[J.Paul]

I have a similar scenario with my rack,
guitar to pedalboard then 20 ft to the rack
then another 20ft from gcx in the rack to vol pedal (and another 20 ft back to the gcx in the rack)
then another 20ft from gcx in the rack to wah wah (and another 20 ft back to the gcx in the rack)

you just have to buffer at every point it sounds like it's getting darker
I'm redesigning mine in the fall actually.lol

[Pinkycramps]

Man, I can't believe this post was still on the front page. The Rack forum is pretty slow... I posted this back in March, and the last reply was in July, and when I came back to the forum... there it was! Geez!

Anyway... now I'm considering the Axe Fx2. Seems like a TON of cash... (well.. it IS a ton of cash!) but in theory at least this thing looks to solve about every issue. I'm seeing a lot of mixed opinions from "It has changed my life" to "it sucks donkey nuts". Trying to really get to the bottom of this thing, vs teh Eleven Rack, and other devices of it's type.
I want to be done with 150 lb rack cases and dozens of patch cords. I love and crave versatility that ability to recreate many tones (I cover really diverse sounds and music) but the reliablity factor is too big for me. When something goes wrong in that big black box of wires and racks, it's too hard to fix mid gig. I've been screwed three times now, and that's three times too many. There won't be a 4th!

[drewl]

Try a GSP1101/C2
Alot cheaper than an 11R or Axe, works great with amps. You can run some fx before your amps preamp, other after and the wahs sound incredibly real.
One RG8 cable to the C2 controller.

[BlueGreene]

Unless you're dead set using the volume pedal to control the Gmaj, why not use the volume pedal like a normal setup (from guitar into volume pedal to rack). I use a rack system myself, but it's not wireless. Guitar > 2 wahs & micro synth & others > volume pedal & pedal tuner > triaxis (effects loop to GSP 1101 > midi cable to floor control) > power amp > 2X12.

I like the rack setup 'cause I tend to bounce between wildly different patches... and I'd rather not need to tap dance around.

[Pinkycramps]

Kind of a mute point now. That was a while back.. and since then the Gmaj blew up... ... and I'm now choosing to move away from my giant rack system.

Now i'm trying to decide my next move...

All I want is every tone in the book, that sounds convincing and true, at the push of a button. That's not asking too much is it?

Thinking about the snax, but damn that's alot of scrilla. I've played with the digitech box, and it just doesn't sell me. I have a Boogie MarkV, (along with several other amps )and a good collection of pedals, and I can get pretty nice tone, so I don't want to toss out what is good, but I want to downsize...

My new question is more about how good is the snax into the power section of an amp? (vs. into a SS amp and Full range speakers). I've seen a lot of threads that that touch on it, but no straight comparisons.

[Pinkycramps]

Kind of a mute point now. That was a while back.. and since then the Gmaj blew up... ... and I'm now choosing to move away from my giant rack system.

Now i'm trying to decide my next move...

All I want is every tone in the book, that sounds convincing and true, at the push of a button. That's not asking too much is it?

Thinking about the snax, but damn that's alot of scrilla. I've played with the digitech box, and it just doesn't sell me. I have a Boogie MarkV, (along with several other amps )and a good collection of pedals, and I can get pretty nice tone, so I don't want to toss out what is good, but I want to downsize...

My new question is more about how good is the snax into the power section of an amp? (vs. into a SS amp and Full range speakers). I've seen a lot of threads that that touch on it, but no straight comparisons.

[BlueGreene]

Originally Posted by Pinkycramps

All I want is every tone in the book, that sounds convincing and true, at the push of a button. That's not asking too much is it?

Good luck...

Thinking about the snax, but damn that's alot of scrilla. I've played with the digitech box, and it just doesn't sell me. I have a Boogie MarkV, (along with several other amps )and a good collection of pedals, and I can get pretty nice tone, so I don't want to toss out what is good, but I want to downsize...

My new question is more about how good is the snax into the power section of an amp? (vs. into a SS amp and Full range speakers). I've seen a lot of threads that that touch on it, but no straight comparisons.

I've experimented with the full range thing. Wasn't much of a fan. The guitar doesn't need "full range" and will only mud up the mix if it takes up more space then it needs (I think even normal amps can produce more low frequenceis then you want). The rack proably wont produce much noise outside of the normal guitar band anyway, so unless you intend to use the full range speaker for more than just a guitar amp, it may have a little bit o' pet rock quality to it. The speaker may be more 'flat' but in terms of tone, that may not be what you want.

That said, playing around with my riddle wah with the start point 'all the way down' made some hilarious and fun bass sounds. How useful that is.. well..

[Pinkycramps]

Well, I've been doing some homework, and my understanding is the reason to go FRFR is so that the tone you get in your monitor exactly matches what you put out to FOH, since you are not micing, but sending the sig via XLR direct out. It kind of forces you to dial your tones into for a full range speaker, which will sound different. Otherwise you build patches to your liking on an amp (by running into the loop), but then they sound bad at FOH.

Anyway, I didn't do that, and now my rig is a combination of the methods. I got a GSP1101 (I know, said I wouldn't, but I did  ), and I run it into the back of a Mrk V combo. It actually sounds really good, and is surprising me and my bandmates. The JCM 800 tones are sweet.  (If you ask, why don't I just use the MkV... good question. Answer: Stage volume. Can't get a good sound until I turn it up, and that is what we are trying to get away from, so we can focus on vocals and mix. The GSP allows tone, feedback, etc at low volumes... anyway, I digress)

So, I'm back to the pedalboard situation, and I am shopping for a buffer for it. Any recomendations on a good one?

[toober]

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Pinkycramps wrote:

By the way, I know it says it's my first post, but I am a returning member from a few years ago with a new account. I used to be blisteredpinky, but I couldn't get that to come up again.

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Replying here since I couldn't find how to PM with this new forum look...If you look at somebody's profile page, the following line will be on the page:

You'll need to reset your password before logging in to your old account for the first time.   Reset Your Password  

[Kazinator]

You may think of 20 feet of cable as degrading tone because that is the case when it's used between a passive pickup and a guitar pre-amp with a megohm range input impedance.

Line level cables can be much longer, due to the lower impedance used.  A 100 feet should be doable. (Though, because the signal is unbalanced, for long distances like that it has to be of good quality. It should have a double shield, like this one.)

Design your pedal board so that the first thing in the chain is always something with a buffer with a line-level impedance of around the standard/nominal 10K. 

If you have no such device (i.e. suppose anything you want to have in front of the chain has an instrument impedance input), you can make the end of the cable itself do this: just open up the 1/4" plug (the one that goes into the first unit in the pedal board) and solder in a 10K resistor between tip and ring, in such a way that you can still close the plug with the resistor in it. This cable will give you an impedance that is capped at 10 kOhm, guaranteed, no matter what you plug it into.

(Congrats, you now have an actual directional cable! Label both ends so you don't use it backwards, and do not breathe a word of this to any audiophiles; they would misunderstand it and use it to make stupid arguments in online forums.)

You could even try lower values like 5K. You want the lowest impedance that your rack can drive without obvious tone sucking. Gear with decent output op-amps can drive down to 600 ohms, and is comfortable with a few thousand.

The basic idea is that we want to create a lower impedance path through the full length of the cable, so that your tone doesn't find an easier path in the cable capacitance along the cable (which is frequency-selective and hence tone sucking!)

In the reverse direction, back to the rack, don't make the last unit in your pedal board's signal chain something stupid, like a pedal that has a passive, unbuffered volume pot in the output circuit which adds gobs of impedance to the loop.