Y.A.N. (Yet Another Noob question)

[m-theory]

I've had next to nothing to do with lighting for over 20 years. DMX is alien to me, as is intelligent lighting. I'm a blank slate at this point, although I've been doing a lot of reading, including the great basic guide to lighting that's on a sticky thread here.

 

Here's where we're at:

 

* band plays generally smallish to medium clubs where we use our own lighting and sound.

 

* We have basically crap for lighting right now...flimsy incandescent washes for each side of the stage.

 

* Drummer has 8 par38 cans and fog machine.

 

My plan is to pick up a truss and mount the 8 par cans on that, over the drums, along with some simple punch lighting and small strobes. Replace crappy washes with some sort of LED washes...haven't determined what yet, as well as perhaps some LED spots.

 

I've got a DMX-4, and will be getting a second, to handle the par cans. I believe I can also trigger the punches, strobes, and fog through those.

 

My question has to do with controller devices. My drummer will be running these lights from on stage. With that in mind, do we need a desktop type controller AND a footswitch, or is there a footswitch that will work in conjunction with DMX dimmers and LED lighting, in order to provide both controller AND switching functions?

 

Also, regardless of the answer to that question, what are decent options for me, not only with regard to the controller and switching, but also in terms of decent LED lighting for the sides/front, that will look decent? Bear in mind that I'm not looking to put together a Pink Floyd show...just looking for something decent, for a weekend band, gigging smaller to medium sized clubs.

 

Thanks!

[jwlussow]

Why incandescent PAR cans on the truss? What is your budget? Build decent front lighting first then the washes and eye candy.

 

Look at the DMXIS threads here. It is a wonderful interface and can be fully controlled via a midi foot switch or controller.

[m-theory]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Incandescent PARs because we have them already. Overall budget I'm looking at is no more than $1200-$1500, which will significantly limit the options....need to maximize bang for buck, and for starters, that'll mean incorporating the cans that we already have.

 

The reason I'm looking at the back lighting first is because I can put something together for probably $500 that'll add considerably to the sappy, crappy Chauvet Colorbank 8 washes that are currently using in front. Then, I can focus on replacing those washes with something intelligent. After that, I can look at replacing the par cans with something intelligent as well.

 

DMXIS is software that requires a computer, isn't it? I'd prefer to not have to rely on that, if at all possible. Isn't there something that would just allow drummer guy to mash a footpedal, at least initially? Limited budget here, and no road crew, at present.

 

Thanks again. Much appreciated. This is territory that I've not touched for at least two decades, and it's all changed completely.

[TrickyBoy]

My two cents:

 

Use the PAR's with amber gels from front lighting to start. Mount to the FOH speakers

 

Then get:

A decent truss: $250 ish

Three Colorstrip Type Fixtures - Approx 180 each - total of $540

 

So for about $800 you've got good wash back lighting and decent front lighting

 

The Chauvet Obey 40 is an OK controller for $120

Figure about that much in cables.

 

So for right around $1K, you've got your basic color wash, front lighting and controller.

 

Take your other $500 and look at different options with regards to "effect" lighting. Strobes, moving lights, etc.

[jwlussow]

There really is nothing usable in the self contained foot controller market at all. Best thing out there only has 16 channels. $1500 can get you a pretty decent show, at least a usable system that you can build upon. Front lighting should trump backlighting unless you want the silhouette style of performance. In my experience, bands with lots of back lighting and little front lighting have a tendency to exhaust the eyes of the audience and will get people to leave sooner then they would if the show was more evenly lit. Not sure why but I believe the audience WANTS to see the band and they strain their eyes trying to focus on the performers that are not properly lit. This is just my experience and opinion but lighting the band should come first and eye candy come later.

 

There are controllers that have midi capability. That might be a good place to start. I also think a combination of Pucks and Colorstrips will make a great show and is easily added to. It is also much lighter and uses less energy. When we got old and tired we dumped the truss and moved to T bar stands on those gigs with limited help. Much easier and quicker to set up and tear down when we don't have a crew helping out.

[m-theory]

 

Use the PAR's with amber gels from front lighting to start.

 

Along with the currently used Colorbanks, or in place of?

 

 

Mount to the FOH speakers

 

I'll buy Tbars...I'll need them with LED lighting later on, anyway.

 

 

Three Colorstrip Type Fixtures - Approx 180 each - total of $540

 

Colorstrips instead of PUCKs?

 

 

The Chauvet Obey 40 is an OK controller for $120

 

Ok, I need some understanding of the controller functions...the DMX4 dimmer packs seem to have some level of programming control. The Obey 40 and other similar devices appear to have much further depth and breadth of control.

 

BUT, how does either controller operate in a real world situation? In other words, in our case, drummer guy is going to be the "lightman." If I program scenes and channel options into an OBEY40 or similar, how are the changes implemented on stage?

 

 

Take your other $500 and look at different options with regards to "effect" lighting. Strobes, moving lights, etc.

 

This was something else I was going to ask about. The basic band lighting guide indicates that many of the typical 'DJ dance floor" effects fixtures are "cheesy" on a band stage. Which ones would be wise to steer clear of, and which are worth looking into?

 

 

 

 

 

There really is nothing usable in the self contained foot controller market at all. Best thing out there only has 16 channels.

 

Ok, I kinda figured that would be the case. This brings me back to my previous question above, though...given I'm using either a tabletop controller, like an OBEYXX, or even with a software/laptop option, how does drummer guy trigger changes?

 

 

This is just my experience and opinion but lighting the band should come first and eye candy come later.

 

Recognizing that they aren't exactly primo lighting by any measure, we do currently have the Colorbank 8's on each side, lighting up faces. We're not in the dark, with or without the par cans.

 

 

Thanks again for the replies. I do apologize for my noobness...I'm a quick study, but I'm basically starting from zero at this point. It's encouraging to know that $1200-$1500 can get us into a respectable show, as a starting point.

 

I definitely understand the advantages of LED lighting, and that's definitely where I'm aiming. However, in terms of my current situation, and the fact that we can incorporate par cans with very minimal cash outlay, what sort of programming capabilities do the DMX4 dimmer packs give me? I'm assuming much more than what I was previously familiar with, 20+ years ago, correct?

 

Moving forward though, when the day comes that I can replace those par cans with LED lighting of some sort, I really won't need the dimmer packs anymore, correct? Assuming that everything at that point will either be LED pars, washes, spots, moonflowers, or whatever, and that there will be no incandescents whatsoever.

[jwlussow]

Puck have a narrower beam and work great as a spot type fixture. The Colorstrips are great in place of the PARs for backlighting and also work in front or on the side. They are more of a wash fixture and offer great eye candy.

 

There are regular "tabletop" DMX controllers that allow a footswitch or full blown foot pedal controller. I use a Roland FC300 but people have had success with the cheaper Behringer 1010 with the Uno chipset. With either of these the drummer will have access to around 100 pre-programmed scenes or even custom control if the two units can sync correctly. There are options out there.

 

No need for dimmer packs with LED lighting. Everything is self-contained. The DMX 4 will allow dimming, on/off, and chases. You can use just one if you want two lights to do the same thing. If you want separate control over all 8 PAR cans you need 2 DMX 4s.

 

Each channel of the DMX4 can either be a dimmer or a switch. You can use it to control a strobe but it must be in switch mode so you will have to double up some of the other lights.

[bigjd]

Another option for control is if your drummer is using any triggers he can control most hardware and software type controllers from that instead of a foot controller by using MIDI.

[jwlussow]

Another option for control is if your drummer is using any triggers he can control most hardware and software type controllers from that instead of a foot controller by using MIDI.

 

 

Good call

[asad4javed]

thanks for sharing such a good information i am very thankful to you

[jwlussow]

 

thanks for sharing such a good information i am very thankful to you

 

 

Where's the sig spam? Did you forget something?

[soundlight]

Oh man, it takes a spam post bringing this back to the top for me to notice it? I must be slacking here! Let's get going. 1200-1500 bucks, and you have 8 PAR38s and 1 DMX4.

 

Step 1 - as others have mentioned, use the PAR38s for frontlight. You'll need another DMX4. [~$100 - DMX4]

 

Step 2 - controller. Get a Chauvet Obey 40 and an Alesis ControlPad. The ControlPad can be mounted in your drummer's kit and will control the Obey 40 with MIDI notes. To clarify - the Chauvet DMX4 is simply a dimmer pack. You use the Obey 40 to control it. It does have some built-in chases, but you won't use those - you'll use control via the Obey 40. [~$260 - Obey 40, ControlPad, MIDI cable]

 

Step 3 - backlight. Since we've relegated your PAR38s to frontlight, you need some backlight. There are a number of options here. it really depends on the look that you want. You could go with 3 COLORstrips for sure - quick, easy, plenty of eye candy. You could go with LED parcans of some type, you could go with a mix of the two - say 3 LED PARs and 2 COLORstrips - with an LED parcan between the two strips and one at each end, allows for some interesting contrasting color setups that are easy to create. [~$600]

 

Step 4 - stands. As was mentioned before, you can put your frontlight up on pipes on top of your speakers. This eliminates 2 stands from your system, and is very easy to do depending on the speakers. You can put your backlight on a simple I-beam truss setup or get a bit more sturdy system. I'd recommend 2 Global Truss ST90s with 10' of I-Beam truss and appropriate truss/stand adapter parts. Truss is definite a buy-once, cry-once purchase, and if you purchase a cheap, thin-wall system it will break. [~$500]

 

Step 5 - odds & ends. You'll need a couple of DMX cables, probably some extension cords, some velcro cable ties are always nice and very inexpensive, things like that.

 

IF you'd like some more help with designing a system and making sure you get everything you need in one shot, shoot me a PM or email (nevetshk AT gmail DOT com). I'd be glad to help you out. It'll get me warmed up for getting going on V2 of the band lighting guide!