New lighting setup questions / Controller software

[fikushade]

Hello,

 

I am looking to purchase a lighting setup for a bar. What I need is LED pars for downstage lighting, moving heads for upstage, and pinspots for stage right and left. I have been looking and what I have come up with so far is this.

 

2 ADJ Dotz Tpar systems for the downstage

5 ADJ Vizi LED Spots for the upstage

2 ADJ Tripar Spots for left and right stage or 2 Chauvet 6 Spots also considering ADJ Event Bar Q4 but the price is quite a bit higher

 

I want to run this with a touchscreen laptop. I want to be able to control each set of fixtures individually. By this I mean I would like to be able to change the scene on each set of fixtures without affecting the other fixtures. Example, if the wash lights are red I would like to be able to keep them red and have the moving heads do what ever scene I choose then in the middle of the moving heads scene be able to change the wash lights to yellow or what ever. I am guessing I need to have 3 separate dmx universes to do this. Any recommendations on what software would best achieve this?

 

I have been doing a lot of research and now I would like some other opinions on this.

 

Thanks

[StratGuy22]

I believe blizzard has a hardware controller which will let you do that. One scene over another.

[fikushade]

Thanks StratGuy22. I really want to go with the touchscreen laptop route though. Just seems like it would be easier to navigate then a hardware console. There are a lot of options, just looking for opinions on what works for other people. Right now I am looking at Lumidesk. Downloaded it yesterday and am gonna play around with it and see what it can do. I have also been playing around with showxpress but I am not sure if it will do what I described.

 

For what it's worth I have a pretty decent budget and can go up or down in price. Still looking for the best bang for the buck though and what will suit me best. Live control is key. As I will be lighting bands of all different types.

[StratGuy22]

Nice. I use DMXIS, it's the only software I'm personally familiar with. I don't think it will do what you want. I use it to go between scenes I've made before. That being said, while I'm in a scene it's easy enough to change the color of the wash lights, but I'm unsure whether you can layer things. I don't think. You can.

[fikushade]

Checked out DMXIS and the pro model would do what I want, but I would have to purchase 2 wings. Lumidesk ultimate has 3 DMX universes so I'm pretty positive that this will work for me. Going to explore other options as well and see what software UI works best for me.

 

Any more comments would be appreciated.

[soundlight]

A couple questions first, then some suggestions and an answer.

 

Questions:

1) What function will the pinspots on the sides serve?

2) Are you planning on using a hazer with this system to see beams?

3) Will the system be installed or portable?

4) Will you be running the system every time, or training others and handing it off?

5) Any particular reason you're attached to ADJ products? Not that I have a beef with them, just asking to know what to recommend.

 

Suggestions:

1) Use a touchscreen all-in-one instead of a laptop, this will allow you to get the keyboard out of the way when not necessary and bring the touchscreen interface closer to you. This is very useful when running a show.

2) Whatever program you get (I suggest DMXIS, D-Pro, or Chauvet ShowXpress), make sure it has MIDI input capability. This will allow you to get an inexpensive MIDI button and/or fader controller to run lighting scenes.

3) Add wash fixtures to your backlight (where the moving heads will be). I'd recommend either 4 or 6, between the movers. Even if it's just the individual ADJ Dotz PARs.

4) Those Vizi Spot LEDs in your gear list are outdated fixtures at this point - the new kid on the block is the Inno Spot Pro.

 

And an answer:

1) No, you do not need 3 separate universes to achieve what you want. You can probably fit all of your fixtures on 1 universe. A universe is simply a single output of control data, which will control your fixtures. Any good software controller will allow you to control each fixture or group of fixtures individually and you should easily be able to fit all of your fixtures on the same universe. I know that this is a hard concept to wrap your head around; universes are one of the hardest things to understand if you're not well versed in DMX.

 

If this were the old forum I'd have links to everything right in line with the text, but this new forum editor does not allow me to do that. It's pretty absurd, and is the main reason that I only take the time to post when it seems that it'd be useful, like now.

[fikushade]

soundlight, thank you for your interest and help. Let me start by giving a few more details of the space. The stage is 10' deep and approximately 18' long. It is raised almost 2' and the ceilings are 12' in the rest of the room, leaving 10' stage headroom. The stage is on one end of a rectangular shaped room that is approximately 25' x 65'. With the crowd area extending about 20' from the stage. Past that are pool tables and what not. The control booth is on a side wall about 15' from the stage and the ceilings are drop down with ceiling tiles. The current cabling is ran in the ceiling.

 

Now to answer your questions.

 

1) What function will the pinspots on the sides serve?

 

Looking at truss and I am now thinking I may mount them to the sides of the truss or on the angle of an arch style truss for added effect. Figured if I went with static non movers I could configure them differently depending on the band. With the moving heads it would give me more diversity and wow factor. From the video I've seen I thought they looked pretty cool. Also found the Blizzard bladerunner which could be an option and is priced lower than the ADJ Event bar.

 

2) Are you planning on using a hazer with this system to see beams?

 

Yes. Smoking is allowed in this establishment and I plan to invest in a good hazer.

 

3) Will the system be installed or portable?

 

Installed. As I said in answer 1 I plan to get a goal/arch type truss to fit the space.

 

4) Will you be running the system every time, or training others and handing it off?

 

I will be running it initially and when I am in town. Once it is established I would want the ability to let some one else run it either in auto mode or with scenes programmed into another controller other than my laptop.

 

5) Any particular reason you're attached to ADJ products? Not that I have a beef with them, just asking to know what to recommend.

 

No particular attachment to ADJ. I like the COB and interchangeable beam angle on the dotz tpar. Also like the fact that they come with a stand, additional power outlets, cases, foot switch, and remote. The remote could come in handy if someone else were to run the system and just wanted to do simple wash lighting without the hassle of running a dmx controller. Could even let the band run the foot switch if they were so inclined. In your suggestions you mentioned the vizi spots being outdated. The reason I am considering them is they seem to fit with my needs. Rotating gobos, prism effect, and the price is less than other fixtures with those features. Brightness may be an issue but from video I've seen they seem fairly bright for 22 watts. I was also looking at the Chauvet intimidator spot led 250. Still looking at options in the moving head area and am open to more suggestions. Rotating gobos and the prism effect are the primary features I am looking for.

 

As for your suggestions which I really appreciate. 1) I plan on buying a lenovo flex laptop which will allow me to use it more as a kiosk type screen and move the keyboard out of the way. 2) Not sure what I need a midi controller for if I am running the show from a laptop. Certainly not opposed to having that option just not sure how I would be using it. 3) They already have 6 rgb pars that are mounted behind the bands that I could use for this. 4) As I previously said I am very open to suggestions on moving heads. Gobo rotation and prism being the primary features I am looking for. I am not looking to spend $1,500 per fixture but am flexible on costs. Basically the best bang for the buck and something that isn't too much/too little for the space I am lighting.

 

Where the controller is concerned I kind of thought that I may be able to layer with out separate universes by using groups. I wasn't sure so hence my questioning on that. I am by no means well versed in DMX but have a good idea how it works. I have made several shows with the showxpress

3D feature. I just wasn't sure how it would work in the live application and with a touchscreen.

 

Budget is basically based on the amount I plan to make within a year. I have another job and have saved a decent amount and can afford some time to recoup my initial investment. Of course if things take off I would take that too, The goal is to make this my new career.

 

Again thanks for any help or suggestions anyone can give me. This is a pretty big deal for me as it is something I have wanted to do for as long as I can remember. Also any help with the best distributors would be appreciated as well.

[soundlight]

Those Vizi Spot LEDs will probably not be bright enough. You want to look at movers with at least a 50W LED - and a 50W LED will be significantly more than twice as bright because of advances in LEDs since there have been significant advances in LED technology between the release of the Vizi Spot LED and more recent LED spot movers.

 

Check out the Intimidator Scan LED 300 if you can deal with a non-rotating prism. It's got an extra-wide beam angle (21 degrees) that would fill up your space nicely. I put 5 Scan 300s in a space with very similar dimensions to yours and they look great. They fill it up better than anything else could for the money.

 

The 6-spots might be bright enough for what you're doing because they're so narrow, but they're definitely going to be on the dim side. However, it's got an edge on the BladeRunner because it's actually got a defined beam and it's mostly homogenized (if you put 2 colors up you see the resulting color, not the individual colors). As far as the Blizzard BladeRunner goes, the thing that I don't like about that - or the Event Bar Q4 - or any other fixture like that - is that the LED colors aren't homogenized. For instance, if you turn on red and green, you get red next to green beams, not yellow. You get red next to blue, not magenta. You get blue next to white, not ice blue. It doesn't look that great IMO.

 

If you want to add a really cool effect upstage, add 2 or 3 Blizzard SnowBanks to the back truss. Check out the demo video - the individual cells are pretty narrow and you can do some really cool zone chases with them.

 

One other thing - putting lights inside the truss to light it - called "truss warming" - is a really cool effect to do if you're installing a rig. Check out either the Chauvet Wedge TRI or SlimPAR Quad 3 IRC for that use. Makes your rig look much better, especially if you're doing an arch/goalpost. You'll need to make sure to run cables extra neatly if you do this though! Zip ties are your friend.

 

As far as control goes, the MIDI controller would give you a physical surface in addition to the touchscreen. Controlling lights with a touchscreen can be sloppy sometimes because you want to be a bit more hands-on with the rig. With a simple, inexpensive MIDI controller you can have buttons/faders/knobs/some combination thereof to provide real time hands-on control that isn't limited by you hitting the exact spot on the touchscreen. It's much easier to hit a MIDI button on a drum pad layout in time to the music (in fact that's what they're designed for) than it is to tap the right spot on a touchscreen in time to the music.

 

That's all for now, I'd write more but I've gotta go off and get ready for a gig.

[fikushade]

Thanks soundlight. Really want to go with the moving head option instead of the scanners. I would like to be able to project onto the back wall and with 180 degress pan I wouldn't be able to do that. I am leaning towards the Blizzard Torrent F3. I really like the dual gobo feature. I understand your point on the Bladerunner and Event Bar. I haven't seen them live so I really don't know but the non mixing colors is not a huge deal to me. Price point may be something that keeps me from going that route. I'm going to look at other LED effects to see if something else can achieve that wow factor and save me some cash in the process.

 

Hope you had a good gig and thanks for the input.

[StratGuy22]

Chauvet Intimidator spot duos are really nice.

[TheCheezys]

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http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/interior-exterior-visual-tech/211377-led-light-bars-photo-thread-please-post-your-setup.html

 

And if you cant get enough ?

 

Then must check here :-

http://www.thecheesyanimation.com/3D-Walkthrough.html

[monthlymixcd]

SPAM... please delete ^^^. The rest of the thread is very good though... missed it originally. Thanks to all that contributed (other than this last spammer guy). And PLEASE fix the forum editor so that soundlight will post more often... ;-)