Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shafted by the band!!

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse









X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Shafted by the band!!

    I just read about what people were making for gigs on the bass forum, and I was wondering what I should be getting for what I do. Here's the deal, I am the bass player and I own the PA. There are four other members in the band. We usually split the money evenly when we do play out. I know I'm getting shafted, but everyone always bitches when it comes to money. I have five thousand into PA and another three or so into my various bass gear. I want to call the PA another band member and get that cut too, I got an earfu!! Then I said, "Well, we can rent a lame PA for $100, so at least give me that!!" No way!! The people who complain the most are 1.The lead singer who owns a mike and 2.The rest who spend their money on dope and beer and cancer. They also argue that they have money into their guitar, amp etc. It's a no win with them, what should I do??!! I'm always the bad guy when I bring this up and the others can't see past their paltry B.S.

  • #2
    Depends on how bad you want to play with these guys. IIWY, I'd walk, and let them see what it's like with no PA. The resentment will pull the band apart eventually, anyway--and with the next band you form, you can work outthe deal on the front end. If I didn't get bux and bennies for my rig (over $25K in it), I wouldn't be playing with these guys.

    Phil
    Qualis vir, talis oratio?

    --Phil

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting subject. I'm the bass player and singer of 99% of the songs and I own the PA too. Mine is only a Mackie 808S powered mixer and EON 15"mains. (The guitarist just bought the monitors off me for $200). I don't mind because the other member's do a huge part of the marketing and get all the job's and the people out to the shows. Besides, I'm the singer.

      In your case, I'd demand a cut for the PA or walk. Sounds like your with cheapskates and with a PA, can easily find others.

      Oh, by the way, stay away from dopers and you'll find that the new memberswill think a little more rationally and will be happy to contribute to the till.

      LOL.
      Skid

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, I would "Take it in for repair" when a gig is coming up and say it isn't around we will have to rent. Do that a couple times and either they will see the light or walk. Honestly, it doesn't matter how much each of you has in your individual equipment, that is your decision to buy or not but the PA is for everyone (especially the singer) and so everyone should pay. I have to admit you are being used.
        We are no longer hitchhiking, we're riding!

        www.plush-amps.com

        Member - HCFXSCOC and HCJRAKPOS

        Comment


        • #5
          The whole concept of how the band gets paid can be the end of a good band. Personally, I like laying it all out up front and not having any surprises. Certainly, beyond a small club, the PA is to reinforce the entire band and it wouldn't be fair for one member to purchase and maintain it. There are other band chores like marketing/booking, music direction etc. that may take time over and above what the a lesser member has to put in, if all he does is show up to practice and gigs. In our band, I own and run the PA, along with being the male lead and rhythm guitarist. I take an extra cut of the gross for the PA; it's only a partial cut, but it takes care of routine maintenance and then some. Other members get extra percentages for handling the marketing/booking. It works for us!

          Even if everyone has a good day job and no one is playing "for the money", everyone cares what their perceived value is too the band relative to the other members. I've been in bands that nearly melted down because we paid a light man/roady $100 (he got $100 every gig-no more, no less) and the singer got less on a night where we accepted a crappy paying gig. Now she didn't need the money; and she agreed to pay the light guy (and roadie) $100 a gig; and she agreed to take this low paying gig; but, it hurt her to the core that she practiced for free and invested in microphones and showed up and performed for less money that our paid help. We kinda saw her point, but thought she should have broke out the calculator before agreeing to set his fee at $100 or before she agreed to take a gig that would result in her making less. Bottom line...there can be a lot of drama and everyone has an opinion on their worth and it can make a fun band, not so fun!
          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Full-Steam/179028619290

          Comment


          • #6
            Well,
            Like Phil said and Terry (Flanc I like your suggestion too. Sometimes ya gotta play hardball)here's what I do.
            I play bass and own the PA/mics/monitors etc. When we play gigs I take 15% before taxes etc off the top for equipment maintenence (ie $350 a night = roughly $55.00)I own everything except the drums and guitar players amps (even own a couple of the guitars). We then have decided on 10% for band trans and recording = 35.00. We then split 4 ways equally. If they don't like it play hardball and tell them to rent a system. Three nighter for what I have is about 400.000 to 500.00. The 55.00 is way cheaper.
            We also practice at my studio so I pay the electric and insurance. If they can't handle it, like Phil says DUMP there ASSES!!!
            You need to lay this kind of stuff out front so there is no latitude or interpretation problems later on. Also ask them what happens when a piece of your gear goes down? They gonna chip in on the repair/replacement?
            Doubt it. Stand up for yourself and tell them that's how it is.
            And BTW tell your singer to shove his "mic" up his dorsal. When you count your gear in it all equals out. A decent bass rig cost at least or more than a FKN Marshall or Line 6 rig. Plus ever wonder why good basses cost more than good guitars. The only legitimate bitch anyone would have is the drummer. Mine has a kit that cost about 3900.00.

            CJ

            [This message has been edited by 5slinger (edited March 22, 2002).]
            Ignorant and drunk will only get you so far in life if your an idiot or your name is George W. Bush (OOPS that's a double redundant)
            You know your gettin' old when settling down becomes an apealing thought.

            Comment


            • #7
              Guys:

              In my day job I am a CPA with my own accounting practice. What is happening here is common in any enterprise where things are not worked out in advance. In a band you are a member of a partnership in a business enterprise. Having a written partnerhip (or band) agreement only means everyone knows exactly how things are going to happen. It has to be written for two reasons:

              1) If it is not written down "I never said that!" Written agreements keep agreements from being too variable. Some people like things to change each time you talk with them. I don't. Write it down. If it is not written down it never happened. If it is written down it doesn't change from day to day.

              2) You will tend to agree to appropriate, fair and friendly terms for dissolution if you decide on them while you are still friends. If you wait to determine how to break up until you do break up it is everyman for himself in the jungle. Decide on things like who gets the name, rights to publishing or for the band to continue the use of music and material written by someone who is leaving the band.

              Nobody invests several thousands dollars into an interprise (like buying PA equipment for a band) and does not expect a reasonable return on that investment. If you know anyone that doesn't think this way please introduce me to them because I have just the deal for them down here in Florida. Something to do with swamps and allogators I think.

              Like was said before, you have let them mooch off you and that has become the expectation. It is not fair to you but you have not worried about it yet so why worry now, right? Wrong. Points in talking with the band:

              1) The PA costs $x per night or rent a system from someone else. Your price should be attractive for both you and for the band. Like Terry said that is only fair. Anyone that has a problem with this is probably not someone who you wnat to be in business (or a band) with.

              2) You will not charge them for the previous use of the PA which would amount to $x,xxx.

              3) You want to address other issues in the band and reduce things to writing so there are no problems later. Reason for wanting it written down is so that everyone sees what is being done which will promote and enhance the long term harmony and success of the band.

              If they don't agree to that you have to decide just how bad do you want to play with these guys. YMMV.
              Yeah, now!

              Comment


              • #8
                J the D,
                A FKN MEN!!!!!!!!

                CJ
                Ignorant and drunk will only get you so far in life if your an idiot or your name is George W. Bush (OOPS that's a double redundant)
                You know your gettin' old when settling down becomes an apealing thought.

                Comment


                • #9
                  what kind of band relationship do you have? Are you all just out for the money, or is it more of a collective bond hippie-style arrangement?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I own pretty much all of our PA gear,maybe $10,000-12,000 invested since some was bought used. Small/medium sized club system w/about 3500 watts on subs and 1400 on mid/highs. I also own and pay insurance,etc on the vehicle to transport it to the gigs. I usually take 10% off the top for that.(doesn't cover it,but it helps)So I usually get $45-60 extra per gig. Personally,I think you are asking for way too much,but that's not my call.
                    tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                    www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                    -For Sale:
                    -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                    -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                    - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                    - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                    - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks very much on the input on handling these matters. I'm pretty laid back, but enough is enough. The band started out in fun and people actually said, "We don't care about the money! We make enough at our day job." Well, come first paid gig, "friends" of the band ordered food and drinks, courtesy of the band. The $300 we were supposed to get went down to maybe $100 and the singer and his girlfriend, the keyboard player, pocketed that because they "got" the gig. HELL, WHERE'S MY $20??!! The band has touchy personalities, so maybe the trick about my "broken rig" will learn them. Or I could be a man and tell them the deal. Some of the members will agree with me and some not.
                      I don't compensate my bass abilities by purchasing gear. I like twiddling knobs and such. Some take it to be a power struggle, i.e. "If we get gear then we have control!!" Not to toot my own horn, but I feel I hold this whole freakin' thing together and I definitely do them a service, s***, I even have to set up some of their amps!!. Luckily I'm in another band of people who are definitely a step above and much more professional, they keep me running home to practice!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey TBL,
                        Yea gotta agree the kid should do like above and take a reasonable share.
                        As far as "hippy relationship vs for the bucks" the difference is YUPPIES.
                        Hipies turned into money grubbin' me first types. At least with business dicks you get it upfront.

                        CJ
                        Ignorant and drunk will only get you so far in life if your an idiot or your name is George W. Bush (OOPS that's a double redundant)
                        You know your gettin' old when settling down becomes an apealing thought.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey Billiam where in Vermont are you located? My situation is exactly the same except I play rythem and lead guitar. If you cant solve the problem with your current band we should talk!
                          Hughes & Kettner Triamp MK II
                          Marshall 1960 AV
                          Gibson Les Paul Custom
                          Gibson SG Standard
                          Fender Custom Classic Strat
                          Ibanez Roadstar II RS-410
                          Ibanez Roadstar II RS-315
                          Ibanez Roadstar II RS-H-S-S

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 5slinger:
                            Hey TBL,
                            Yea gotta agree the kid should do like above and take a reasonable share.
                            As far as "hippy relationship vs for the bucks" the difference is YUPPIES.
                            Hipies turned into money grubbin' me first types. At least with business dicks you get it upfront.

                            CJ
                            Nobody cares about the money until they get a little smell of it. Everything changes then. But ya,he definitely should get something for it and they're being pricks for not realizing that.
                            tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                            www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                            -For Sale:
                            -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                            -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                            - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                            - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                            - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by billiam:
                              I just read about what people were making for gigs on the bass forum, and I was wondering what I should be getting for what I do. Here's the deal, I am the bass player and I own the PA. There are four other members in the band. We usually split the money evenly when we do play out. I know I'm getting shafted, but everyone always bitches when it comes to money. I have five thousand into PA and another three or so into my various bass gear. I want to call the PA another band member and get that cut too, I got an earfu!! Then I said, "Well, we can rent a lame PA for $100, so at least give me that!!" No way!! The people who complain the most are 1.The lead singer who owns a mike and 2.The rest who spend their money on dope and beer and cancer. They also argue that they have money into their guitar, amp etc. It's a no win with them, what should I do??!! I'm always the bad guy when I bring this up and the others can't see past their paltry B.S.
                              And I suppose, the same ones that complain about the money, sit there and watch while you set up the sound equiptment, and probably don't help tear down the equipment either. When it comes to PA I have ment more people with bad backs than, I care to know. Just tell them like it is,and if they don't like it, base players are hard to find, anyway, it'll be their loss! Denny

                              Comment



                              Working...
                              X