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  • #16
    I myself use IEM's. The biggest downside is that even if convince everyone to in your group to buy them, if you change players you have a problem. Also I've had issues with my PSM400's and have had to resort to wedges at times. You can't really go without a backup plan if you are using wireless anything. Our current set up is a mix of wedges and IEM's.

    My only point in this thread is the question of why nobody has made a moderately priced, small coaxial. I see MoosBros point, but Selenium makes a 12 and 15 coaxial for less than $200. I would think it's gotta be competitive with other MI offerings and it would seem to have size, and at least some performance advantage.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by abzurd
      I myself use IEM's. The biggest downside is that even if convince everyone to in your group to buy them, if you change players you have a problem. Also I've had issues with my PSM400's and have had to resort to wedges at times. You can't really go without a backup plan if you are using wireless anything. Our current set up is a mix of wedges and IEM's.

      My only point in this thread is the question of why nobody has made a moderately priced, small coaxial. I see MoosBros point, but Selenium makes a 12 and 15 coaxial for less than $200. I would think it's gotta be competitive with other MI offerings and it would seem to have size, and at least some performance advantage.


      actually, there ARE other choices in coaxial raw speakers besides Selenium. PAS has a lower priced line of coaxials, McCauley does too(I think), and I'm pretty sure I saw some on the Bema website.. there may be others.....

      the SRO shop I used to work at sold 4 PAS 12" coaxs to one of our employees...he built his own wedges...I can't remember if those were 1" or 2" HF drivers on them,, he made them up to be 2x12"s,and I am thinking that there was only one coax per box,,,, but they were VERY compact...
      Columbia SC, USA
      bluesman at large/musician for hire
      current passport-no travel restrictions

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      • #18
        I have been working on a 1" version of a co-axial, but with compact size comes limited low end. I have had to go to a sealed box since I couldn't get a reasonable tuning on that small of a vented box without serious linearity problems and phase anomolies around 125-150Hz. These rendered the ported design mediocre, but with processing the sealed box shows some promise.

        I really prefer a 1" driver for highs in almost any moinitor because of weight, sound quality and ease of design. I also choose the LF driver to give extended response and linerity up to about 1.5-2k so that any x-over point is higher than the middle od the vocal range. This gives me the most natural sound and still gives reasonable efficiency and pattern control. Most co-ax HF horn flairs must be crossed over pretty high by comparison to a dedicated (and larger) flair due to their mouth size. That's why the co-ax shows some promise. Target price is something along the lines of $600 street price for a 15" version and $500 for a 12".

        Co-ax speakers have been a traditionally hard sell, but I'm not entirely sure why. Radian's micro-wedge is a great product, PAS's is also very good, but larger.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Audiopile
          1" v.s. 2" in a co-axial wedge

          Personally, I believe in wedges a 1 1/2" compression driver is the best choice.

          The 1" is a-ok fine for lower power stuff and smooooth response.

          The 2" is just too big, expensive, heavy, and typically pretty darn harsh if pushed hard.

          The 1 1/2" is just right for R&R or blues. Still fairly smooth, but will cut through nicely.



          the 2x12/coax box if I remember correctluy,, he used 2" throat HF drivers...EV DH1 is what they were......same thing we used in our PAS TOC big system....


          we had the EV DH1's in all of our tops,,AND all the wedges..

          they never sounded harsh at all,,, because there is no way you can have a 2"HF driver in a wedge and push it hard, and it be at a useful volume... it would be just wayy too loud.... as Long as I worked there, we never blew a HF diver in any of our boxes,,,,,, we DID lose twelve 15" mids though,all at one gig(we think),, we never quite figured out what happened to cause that... damned death metal...

          Columbia SC, USA
          bluesman at large/musician for hire
          current passport-no travel restrictions

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Audiopile

            Goes to show what I know. I was unaware that EV ever made a co-axial driver. They don't seem to make them anymore. I wonder why they dropped them? Maybe it was in the early days of the Mark IV accusition of Gauss and EV dressed up the Gauss 3588, 3288 and 3285's with EV stickers? If so, that would explain a lot...in-that they were phenominal co-axial drivers but insanely expensive. The only thing is, the largest diameter HF throat available in the Gauss was 1"... far as I know anyway.



            to clarify in the state of confusion....

            the HF driver was an EV,, the coaxial speaker itself was a PAS... it accepted any 4 bolt 2" HF driver.....
            Columbia SC, USA
            bluesman at large/musician for hire
            current passport-no travel restrictions

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            • #21
              The problem I find with 2" drivers is that the diaphram resonates in a very unflattering frequency range due the the physical size and mass of the diaphram. It is part of the rock and roll "edge" that some with diminished hearing seem to prefer though. It's also a quality that I don't like in a wedge that's pointed only 6 feet from my head!
              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

              Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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              • #22
                Originally posted by agedhorse
                The problem I find with 2" drivers is that the diaphram resonates in a very unflattering frequency range due the the physical size and mass of the diaphram. It is part of the rock and roll "edge" that some with diminished hearing seem to prefer though. It's also a quality that I don't like in a wedge that's pointed only 6 feet from my head!



                surely you speak of the JBL "razors edge" frequency response...they have that characteristic bump in the midrange that they mistakenly call "presence".. I call it annoying as hell..

                the EV DH1 is a MUCH smoother sounding 2" HF driver......

                Columbia SC, USA
                bluesman at large/musician for hire
                current passport-no travel restrictions

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                • #23
                  If I recall from past testing, the DH-1 rolls off pretty quickly past about 12 or 13k???
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                  Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by agedhorse
                    If I recall from past testing, the DH-1 rolls off pretty quickly past about 12 or 13k???
                    And from listening to them. You really need something on top of them or the system sounds pretty dull,IMO. I am another person that really doesn't like 2" drivers for close field monitors. Maybe for side fills.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Audiopile

                      The DH1A I assume? Maybe?

                      If so, I'm mildly curious how they bolted the compression driver to the cone driver?

                      Were both 12's in the wedge co-axials?

                      By the way: a pair of 2206's and a 2425 on a potato masher is about my favorite wedge outside of co-axial wedges.


                      they close-couple to the BACK of the magnet structure of the speaker...the horn lens is semi-permanently attatched to the front..there's a 2" diameter hole that goes all the way thru that is actually the back of the horn thoat that lines up with the exit on the HF driver..

                      no,, if I rememeber correctly, only ONE of the 12"s was a coax,, the other was a straight 12"....making it a 2x12/2"HF monitor wedge......BIAMPED,,, it kills.....
                      Columbia SC, USA
                      bluesman at large/musician for hire
                      current passport-no travel restrictions

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by agedhorse
                        If I recall from past testing, the DH-1 rolls off pretty quickly past about 12 or 13k???


                        it does,, it needs EQ to get the top "air"... but,, because of that,, it is MUCH more pleasant to listen to than a similar JBL HF driver..very smooth midrange...
                        Columbia SC, USA
                        bluesman at large/musician for hire
                        current passport-no travel restrictions

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                        • #27
                          Where do i find a place that sells co-ax monitors? and anyone have like a price guide for 12's and 15's? i'm curious as to where i could get some to replace our current monitor system... which isn't the greatest, but we get buy with it....



                          thanks,
                          Chad
                          www.foxgloverock.com Check it out sometime

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                          • #28
                            I got a new EV Sxa360 with a DH1 2" driver and I also think it rolls off the HF.

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                            • #29
                              I have a bunch of the older Eminence 80 oz magnet cast frame co-axes with the actual plastic horn built into them. They are far better than their current lowend co-ax models. They pop up on ebay now and then.
                              tlbonehead@yahoo.com
                              www.myspace.com/tbone_tommy
                              -For Sale:
                              -set of GFS Dream 90s- gold and black pearl- $40 shipped in the cont. US
                              -(2) Celestion G12M-70 16 ohm guitar speakers in good condition $40 ea. + shipping.
                              - Vox VT15 Valvetronix very clean - $85 + shipping
                              - Hughes Kettner Edition Tube 20 (the early Voxy sounding one) Sounds & looks good. $250 + shipping. SOLD
                              - Crate Palomino V8 - 10" Celestion - Very clean - on Ebay (sold)

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Audiopile

                                Ok, could be, but in wedges, the way I use them they work pretty darn good. .........Greg Shadoan and Pat Conner of Shadoan Technical Services are they guys that put them together. I've heard a lot of wedges, many of which sound great, but nothing smoother or "better" in my opinion, including Clair, McCaully, JBL Array Series, etc...

                                What's in them, a Zomax co-ax?

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