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  • impedance and crossovers question..??

    I have a pair of Yorkville Micron 600's that have 3 out of 4 blown 10"s...

    the blown drivers are RCF 10" 400 watt 8ohm speakers... the total system impedance is 4 ohms...there ae TWO 10"s in each cabinet....

    my question is.... how will changing all the 10" drivers to a 16 ohm(each) driver affect the crossover frequency and all that good stuff...

    I have a gig coming up shortly where the M600 would be the perfect weapon of choice,,(except for the blown drivers)... and I just happen to have a set of 4 heavy duty 16 ohm Emininace drivers here as spares from an old project... I think they are rated at 150 watts... anyways,, like I said,, they are 16 ohm,, so it would change the load on the crossover,,and I was wondering if I should just forget it until I get them reconed,, or,,, would it work ok>? anyone know how to cipher it out? which way will the crossover frequency go,, up, or down,, and what happens to the slope, and would the phase change dramatically?

    enquiring minds want to know////


    Columbia SC, USA
    bluesman at large/musician for hire
    current passport-no travel restrictions

  • #2
    Originally posted by MoosBros
    I have a pair of Yorkville Micron 600's that have 3 out of 4 blown 10"s...

    the blown drivers are RCF 10" 400 watt 8ohm speakers... the total system impedance is 4 ohms...there ae TWO 10"s in each cabinet....

    my question is.... how will changing all the 10" drivers to a 16 ohm(each) driver affect the crossover frequency and all that good stuff...

    I have a gig coming up shortly where the M600 would be the perfect weapon of choice,,(except for the blown drivers)... and I just happen to have a set of 4 heavy duty 16 ohm Emininace drivers here as spares from an old project... I think they are rated at 150 watts... anyways,, like I said,, they are 16 ohm,, so it would change the load on the crossover,,and I was wondering if I should just forget it until I get them reconed,, or,,, would it work ok>? anyone know how to cipher it out? which way will the crossover frequency go,, up, or down,, and what happens to the slope, and would the phase change dramatically?

    enquiring minds want to know////


    If you are talking about the crossover between the woofer and the horn,if you go from 4 to 8 ohms on the low side,your rolloff will start at double the frequency. If it is 2500hz currently,it will be in the 5000hz range. This is considering that you only have 6db rolloff on the low pass side. Does the crossover just have a coil on the low pass side? (If it is 12db or greater,I'm not sure exactly what happens) You will maybe be a little funky sounding in the mid range with the doubling up between the woofer and horn,but it probably won't be too bad. A lot of the more budget stuff just has a high pass section for the tweeter and just lets the woofer roll off naturally.
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    • #3
      Depends on what the config of the low section si. Many do not have a low pass element al all, just rely on the inductance )L) of the voice coil for the HF rolloff. In this case, there will be no difference.

      Blowing that many drivers... sounds like TOO MUCH POWER to me!
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

      Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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      • #4
        Originally posted by agedhorse
        Depends on what the config of the low section si. Many do not have a low pass element al all, just rely on the inductance )L) of the voice coil for the HF rolloff. In this case, there will be no difference.

        Blowing that many drivers... sounds like TOO MUCH POWER to me!



        I'll never know for sure...I bought them from an E-Bay auction.. I got a new **************************** ripped.... they were advertised as perfect wroking condition... but,, as I said,,, three RCF 10"s were blown...

        On one of the drivers, the surround had ripped all the way around so the cone was just dangling by the spider. Over-excursion?

        anyways,,, the crossover DOES have an elaborate HP/LP set-up...

        rememeber, this is one of Yorkville's top of the line Elite models..the cabinet itself is rated at 600 watts RMS, and had a spec of of 129db maximum SPL !!!..
        Columbia SC, USA
        bluesman at large/musician for hire
        current passport-no travel restrictions

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        • #5
          Were those the cloth surrounds or were they a foam-roll?

          Tearing of the cloth surrounds is a clear indication of exceeding both Xmax and Xmech over a long period of time. It would also mean that the spiders were also damaged, though not obvious, and would be way off of their TS parameters.

          If it was a foam surround failure, it could be that the foam began to break down due to aging and ozone damage.

          I would get all 4 reconed and be done with it.

          An alternative would be to look at a high end Eminence such as the Delta-Lite (I may have some custom PA versions available).

          I would also check with Yorkvill to see what HPF is recommended with that cabinet. It may be optimized as a "mid-high box" and need to be HP'd around 80Hz for maximum output. Especially if it's a compact box. The previous owner may have missed this fine point!
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by agedhorse
            Were those the cloth surrounds or were they a foam-roll?

            Tearing of the cloth surrounds is a clear indication of exceeding both Xmax and Xmech over a long period of time. It would also mean that the spiders were also damaged, though not obvious, and would be way off of their TS parameters.

            If it was a foam surround failure, it could be that the foam began to break down due to aging and ozone damage.

            I would get all 4 reconed and be done with it.

            An alternative would be to look at a high end Eminence such as the Delta-Lite (I may have some custom PA versions available).

            I would also check with Yorkvill to see what HPF is recommended with that cabinet. It may be optimized as a "mid-high box" and need to be HP'd around 80Hz for maximum output. Especially if it's a compact box. The previous owner may have missed this fine point!



            The RCF 10" speakers had cloth accordion surrounds,, and are their premium, 8 ohm, 400 watt RMS model....I expect the speakers HAD to have been dogged pretty hard to destroy the sourrounds like that.. two of them, (in the same cabinet) had that type of damage,, and of the other two, one had a warped voice coil,, since it was rubbing.....one seemd ok,, but,, I figured to eventually get them all re-coned together,, to set things right,, and keep the speakers exactly spec'ed as OEM....

            they were designed and marketed as a high powered compact, "vocal oriented" speaker system, and YES,, I would think any fool would be smart enough to use subs if needed, to augment the low-end...

            I imagine that with subs,(such as the Elite EP700), they should have made for an extremely compact, kick ass small club system...the 600's are quite small, ported cabinets,hardly bigger than a Bose 901 type speaker, except for weighing about 50 lbs each... the 10" are mounted horizontally on the baffle, and coupled with a very nice RCF 100 degree horn and 1" driver...

            I was just hoping to use them temporarily for this one gig,(with the Eminence spares installed), at a Bluegrass gig at a local church.... to cover a crowd of around 200 peeps...it would be used for the basic acoustic instruments, and vocals,, and huge volume would definately NOT be required...

            I have previously e-mails oops,, Dan at AudioEast about getting them reconed,, and he'll see them show up at his shop as soon as I know I can cover the expense......

            Columbia SC, USA
            bluesman at large/musician for hire
            current passport-no travel restrictions

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            • #7
              IIRC, there was a pair of Elite M-600's that came up for auction SEVERAL times over before they were sold a few months ago.
              Yeah, sounds like a VERY nice, up close, wide dispersion, small club rig. I guess you could probably get by with the altered crossover for the bluegrass gig, but I'd get the reconed RCF's back in there pronto.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kennykeys
                IIRC, there was a pair of Elite M-600's that came up for auction SEVERAL times over before they were sold a few months ago.
                Yeah, sounds like a VERY nice, up close, wide dispersion, small club rig. I guess you could probably get by with the altered crossover for the bluegrass gig, but I'd get the reconed RCF's back in there pronto.


                if it were an E-Bay auction where you saw them,,, then you're talking to the guy who got suckered........

                I bought them in March, from an E-Bay auction....the buyer grossly mis-represtented the condition of the speakers....

                I got E-Bay involved, and still NO recourse... my next stop is the local law enforcement authorities....I'm not gonna stop till I'm satisfied his **************************** feels just like mine does...
                Columbia SC, USA
                bluesman at large/musician for hire
                current passport-no travel restrictions

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