Members jumpchamp Posted July 24, 2003 Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 hey everyone. i've tried searching around on posts for answers to my quesitons, but haven't been able to find exactly what i'm looking for, so i figured i'd start my own thread (yes, my first one. clap for me later...) anyways, this is my situation. i'm playing an outdoor show this weekend and will be setting up the pa equipment for the first time. this is what we have right now 2 main speakers2 monitor wedges8 channel mixerpower amp all of the speakers are passive. what i need to know is what i have to do to get power to both the mains and the monitors. there are two outputs on the power amp. i wish i could provide the other details (wattages, ohmage, etc) but most of the equipment is at my singer's house. he bought the equipment (not the monitors, those are rented) from his old band, and they had a guy that used to run all that stuff, so he never got too deep into it. i have a feeling that i need active monitors so i can control that mix from the board. i'll post more info as i get it from my singer (specs, etc) thanks in advance for any and all help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members URSavage Posted July 24, 2003 Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 Can we assume you are only going to be running vocals through the PA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 24, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 ah, knew i'd leave that out... two acoustic guitars, a keyboard, and two vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tommy Tune Posted July 24, 2003 Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 First thing's first. I'd get 3 DI boxes. One for each instrument. You're only going to get one monitor mix. You can come out of one side of the Power amp and daisy chain one main to the other. You should have 2 1/4 inch jacks on each speaker. (monitors & mains) When you plug into it, the other becomes an out. (Parallel) You can do the same for the monitors. If you have a set of mains at 8 ohms and you daisy them, they will drop to 4 ohms. So, you'll need to look at what your amp puts out at 4 ohms. Same with the monitors. To control the monitors from the board, come out of the AUX1 send to the power amp and then from the amp to the monitor. AUX 1 will control the volume for each channel. I was a little reluctant to post this because I have no specs but if everything jives............this may be a way to do it. I wouldn't expect radical results but it might get you through the gig. Keep your instruments at a low volume, you'll need to keep the vocals out front. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members URSavage Posted July 24, 2003 Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 Not sure if this is to simplistic an answer but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 24, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 thanks tommy tune, i was figuring it would work out something like that. ironically enough, we do have the di boxes laying around, so we're set with that. i feel stupid because its like we're halfway there but not quite. i will get back to this post with all the specs tomorrow. i'm well aware of needing to match impedence, etc and i certainly don't want to blow anything out. but from what you are suggesting, it sounds as if i'll be able to control both the mains and the monitors from the mixing board, which is what i was hoping someone would say. time to turn in now. i'll be back. thanks all who can help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 24, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 gotcha URS. maybe i'll just go ahead and rent another amp to dedicate to the monitors then. i'll definitely make sure i'll go active next time. so i guess there are a few different ways around this. i'm not looking for killer sound (most of the people won't notice/will be too drunk anyways:) ) but i don't want to sound like crap either. nothing like a learning experience to make you want to improve anyways, right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tommy Tune Posted July 24, 2003 Members Share Posted July 24, 2003 The beauty of this site is that you can learn by other's mistakes. Another amp will give you more power and seperation of your left an right side. You won't have to daisy chain them. Same thing with the monitors.............you get more power and you can get 2 seperate monitor mixes. That comes in handy if you have 2 vocalists and one of you needs "a little more". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 25, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2003 ok group, here's what i plan to do: both the mains and the monitors are 200 watts, 8 ohms. the power amp runs at 4 ohms. i'll bridge one monitor to each main, giving me 4 ohms in line, so my impedence will all match up. the power amp is either 1000 or 800 watts, so i should be alright there. i know i won't be able to control the mix that is going to the monitors, but i figure with the right angles and whatnot, we'll be able to hear just enough without getting feedback. it might take some time to setup right, but we'll work it out. one last q, what are good brands as far as speaker cable goes? i don't want to freak out with all monster cable or anything like that, but i don't want anything quittin on me either. thanks to everyone for all their help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 25, 2003 Members Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by jumpchamp ok group, here's what i plan to do:both the mains and the monitors are 200 watts, 8 ohms. the power amp runs at 4 ohms. i'll bridge one monitor to each main, giving me 4 ohms in line, so my impedence will all match up. the power amp is either 1000 or 800 watts, so i should be alright there.i know i won't be able to control the mix that is going to the monitors, but i figure with the right angles and whatnot, we'll be able to hear just enough without getting feedback. it might take some time to setup right, but we'll work it out.one last q, what are good brands as far as speaker cable goes? i don't want to freak out with all monster cable or anything like that, but i don't want anything quittin on me either.thanks to everyone for all their help! No! Don't do that. Your power amp is stereo,correct? Use one side to power both mains and the other side to power both monitors. The main out on the mixer goes to the channel of the power amp pushing the main speakers. The channel of the power amp that powers the monitor cabs gets hooked to the mixer's monitor/aux send. It probably has at least two. One is ordinarily used for effects and the other for monitors. Then you control the volume of each microphone,etc,with the corresponding aux volume control on each channel strip on the mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 25, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2003 ah, ok. that would make more sense, huh? damn late nights after long days! so by doing that, both the monitors and the mains will be in mono, correct? they don't have to be stereo at all, they just have to work well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 25, 2003 Members Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by jumpchamp ah, ok. that would make more sense, huh? damn late nights after long days! so by doing that, both the monitors and the mains will be in mono, correct? they don't have to be stereo at all, they just have to work well Right,they'll be mono. But your mains and monitors will be controllable separately,which is what you really need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundministries Posted July 25, 2003 Members Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by jumpchamp one last q, what are good brands as far as speaker cable goes? i don't want to freak out with all monster cable or anything like that, but i don't want anything quittin on me either. Audiopile Good quality cables at a great price with awesome customer service. There are a bunch of us around here who are using cables we got from Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J the D Posted July 25, 2003 Members Share Posted July 25, 2003 Using a powered mizer with Monitor/Main configuration. In order to have more headroom, we use the Main/Main (stereo) configuation and run an unbalanced line from the monitor out on the mixer into an extra bass amp I have and use it to drive three 8 ohm monitors. Actually sounds pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 27, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 everyone, thank you so much for all the help. i'm starting to get a much better handle on what it takes to set up live sound. the gig went off pretty well, but there was an issue i ran into that i couldn't quite figure out and was wondering if you could provide some direction. i ended up running two seperate outs from the mixer. using the left output, i plugged the mains out into channel a of the power amp, and then bridged the two mains speaker together. did the same thing for the monitors then, using the left output for the "control room" out (its a behringer mx802a. probably not the greatest console, but it got the job done). the issue is that when i tried to adjust the level for the "ctrl room" (i.e. monitors) nothing happened. when i adjusted the level for the mains, the volume of the monitors increased as well. i followed the signal path many times for both the mains and monitors, and the only thing i can figure is that something is soldered wrong in the board that bypassed the level control for the monitors. maybe i'm missing somethig obvious here, but does anyone have any idea why this would have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 27, 2003 Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 Originally posted by jumpchamp everyone, thank you so much for all the help. i'm starting to get a much better handle on what it takes to set up live sound. the gig went off pretty well, but there was an issue i ran into that i couldn't quite figure out and was wondering if you could provide some direction. i ended up running two seperate outs from the mixer. using the left output, i plugged the mains out into channel a of the power amp, and then bridged the two mains speaker together. did the same thing for the monitors then, using the left output for the "control room" out (its a behringer mx802a. probably not the greatest console, but it got the job done). the issue is that when i tried to adjust the level for the "ctrl room" (i.e. monitors) nothing happened. when i adjusted the level for the mains, the volume of the monitors increased as well. i followed the signal path many times for both the mains and monitors, and the only thing i can figure is that something is soldered wrong in the board that bypassed the level control for the monitors. maybe i'm missing somethig obvious here, but does anyone have any idea why this would have happened? You don't bridge speakers,you bridge power amps. Do you mean that you daisy-chained the two speakers off one channel of the amp? Why did you hook the monitor amp into the control room out? The monitors should be run out of one of your auxiliary outs on the board.(The one that you don't run your effects through. I'm sure that board has at least two) Then you control each channel's monitor level with the corresponding auxiliary control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 27, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 yes, you're right, i daisy chained the speakers. i don't quite understand the behringer manual. http://www.behringer-download.de/MX802A/MX802A_ENG_Rev_F.pdf i don't quite understand how the aux sends would be used for monitors when there is a dedicated "control room" output that has its own level control. is there something i'm still missing? i guess it doesn't make sense to me for those outputs to be used for anything else. if they aren't for monitors, what are they for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 27, 2003 Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 Originally posted by jumpchamp yes, you're right, i daisy chained the speakers.i don't quite understand the behringer manual. http://www.behringer-download.de/MX802A/MX802A_ENG_Rev_F.pdfi don't quite understand how the aux sends would be used for monitors when there is a dedicated "control room" output that has its own level control. is there something i'm still missing? i guess it doesn't make sense to me for those outputs to be used for anything else. if they aren't for monitors, what are they for? Well,they are called control room outputs,not monitor outputs. Used for control room monitoring for recording. Auxiliary outs are ordinarily used for monitoring. The more aux outputs your board has,the more separate monitor mixes you can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tommy Tune Posted July 27, 2003 Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 Try this. First............copy this page so that you do it exactly this way. Second. Run a line out of AUX1 on the board. Run it into one side of the power amp. Come out of the amp and go into a monitor. Chain that monitor to another. You now have a 4 ohm load. Make sure all of the AUX1 knobs are down when you do this. If they're cranked, you'll get a ton of feedback and possibly damage your monitor (not to mention your ears). While saying check or test into the mic, slowly raise the AUX 1 knob for the channel that you have the mic plugged into and see what you get. Do this for each channel that you have a mic in and you'll control which channel comes through the monitors louder. Also, a good EQ will help to control feedback but we'll handle one problem at a time. Good luck. Try it and tell us what you get. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted July 27, 2003 Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 Originally posted by Tommy Tune Try this. First............copy this page so that you do it exactly this way. Second. Run a line out of AUX1 on the board. Run it into one side of the power amp. Come out of the amp and go into a monitor. Chain that monitor to another. You now have a 4 ohm load. Make sure all of the AUX1 knobs are down when you do this. If they're cranked, you'll get a ton of feedback and possibly damage your monitor (not to mention your ears). While saying check or test into the mic, slowly raise the AUX 1 knob for the channel that you have the mic plugged into and see what you get. Do this for each channel that you have a mic in and you'll control which channel comes through the monitors louder. Also, a good EQ will help to control feedback but we'll handle one problem at a time. Good luck. Try it and tell us what you get. OK? That's exactly it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jumpchamp Posted July 27, 2003 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 you guys are really helpful, i appreciate this a ton. ok, i'm looking at this a bit more closely now, and i think i see what i have to do. correct me if i'm wrong, but running out of the aux will now allow me to adjust the individual levels of each input (using the aux controls for each channel on the board). the thing i'm still a bit confused about is the overall monitor level then. the mixer i'm working with only has a level knob for the aux return. since i'm not actually coming back to the board, how do i control the overall mixer level? if i just have to do it from the individual channel controls, that's fine, but it would be nice if it worked the same way the main mix does. i also don't quite understand the control room outs then. intuitively, i would think that those are for the monitors, if only because that level knob is right next to the main mix knob. maybe they are assuming that you are sending that to a powered speaker so the level can be adjusted from there? i feel like i type a ton everytime i reply to something! thanks for bearing with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tommy Tune Posted July 27, 2003 Members Share Posted July 27, 2003 The aux returns are for the over all volume of the monitor mix. So, your wish has come true. LOL Don't worry about the control room outs. You're probably not going to use them unless you get into a recording situation. Trust me, just try what I wrote in my last post and then you'll understand it better. Once you realize how it works there will be no need to worry about the control room outs. Not yet anyway. Rome wasn't built in a day. Take it slow. Learn one thing before you move to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thundercranium Posted July 28, 2003 Members Share Posted July 28, 2003 I'm surprised that you haven't been sent to this site yet. It has everything you need. http://www.spydee.com/members/bassist/Setup.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tommy Tune Posted July 28, 2003 Members Share Posted July 28, 2003 Damn.........now ya tell me. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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