Jump to content

Question regarding education/career path


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Hello,

 

I'm really interested in live sound production. I'm trying to research the viability of live sound as a career path. How would those of you that do this for a living approach getting started? I assume one of the many schools that offer education on things related to audio engineering would be helpful. Is it hard to find a veteren sound guy to apprentice for?

 

Also, is the job market saturated? Am I going to be spending big bucks to go to a reputable sound engineering school only to find myself moving all over the country trying to find employment, or is there a pretty big demand?

 

What kind of wage is typical? I really don't have ambitions to be wealthy in life, but I certainly do want to continue to learn things that intrest me and do things that I enjoy. If I can work in live sound production, I figure I'll be a happy guy as long as I can pay my bills while doing it.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Feel free to make comments on anything you think I might consider, whether you do this as hobby or on a professional level. I'm very opened eared on the subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Man, this is a question that's asked a lot, and hard to answer.

 

It's different for everyone. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the vast majority of folks on this forum had no formal education in audio engineering. Some of them have some related study, I believe, like electronics. I have several degrees (my day job is "research scientist") but I sure didn't get them to do sound. Everything you know fits together, though, in one way or another.

 

Most people who do sound for money just sort of fall into it, as I did. I began as a musician (very common, I'd guess) and somewhere along the way got to love gear too much, and noticed that soundmen make more money and don't have to rehearse or practice. It's an easy way to get into better gigs than you can playing, just like falling off a log.

 

My break into the big boys' turf came when I was running a recording studio in Bryan TX in the 80's. I was really into recording, but recording stuff used to cost a ton of money. After a few $1000+ bills at other people's studios, I decided to con some people into being silent partners and open my own. I reasoned that I could get great gear and have lots of time to record my own stuff. Really naive on my part, but that's another story. :)

 

Everything in this business (maybe ANY business) is about relationships and connections. I was just working a looooong day at the studio recording a country band's demo and they asked me if I could get similar results for them live. My "business" answer is always "YES" so I found myself doing live sound at a 10,000+ festival a week later. Some funny things happened at that show, which I've shared over in "Stupid Stories." ;)

 

To make a long story short, the band I was working for was opening for George Strait, and in those days he didn't carry a sound man, so I got to run his sound too. Luck was with me, and I did a great job that night for all the bands, and managed to stay pleasant and positive in the process. That was the beginning of many, many gigs and road trips working for A-list country recording artists, lots of money and amazing experiences. What makes it even stranger is I really didn't like country at the time, though I hadn't really heard the "new country" before and it's really just Top 40 pop with a vocal twang.

 

This may sound like incredible good luck, and it was. But the thing is, luck is inevitable when preparation meets opportunity. I said "yes" to a lot of things that didn't work out before saying "yes" to that one. If I had sucked, the story would have ended in Rockdale TX that night and I wouldn't be typing this post.

 

So my advice is, get out there and DO it. There are plenty of bands looking for a good sound guy who'll work for next to nothing. Be relentless in your professionalism and efforts to get great sound, even when you're working in a barn and the singer can't hit the pitches. Be friendly and helpful even when you're tired, grumpy, and your world is falling apart. Do this right now, do it every night you can, and don't stop no matter what! When you get a "break," an opportunity to "move up," jump on it with both feet, being sure not to burn your bridges behind you. Everyone in the biz moves around, it's expected. It's how you handle it that makes your reputation, which is everything.

 

Finally, a word about sound schools.

 

I can't add much, since I didn't go to one. I do work frequently with recent grads of "Full Sail," mostly at one mega-club in San Antonio, which has quite a pack of them at any given time. I like them. Whatever else may be lacking in their education (still wearing those ass and elbow stickers) they all seem to have learned the most important lessons, which are to be friendly and helpful, to listen and ask questions when you're working with someone more experienced, and make suggestions at just the right times (another stupid story about that).

 

All in all, my impression of them is quite good. Lots of "book" knowledge, not much practical knowledge or seasoning, but they'll get that with time. As I understand it, these schools are quite expensive, though. Bottom line is, all education is good, but most working sound folks don't have much book learning unless it came out of a book they read on their own.

 

Terry D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

You didn't mention your age but if your in your late teens or early twenties and have the financial capability, I would jump at the chance at getting an education in the music production field. As far as I know, there really isn't a live sound engineering degree offered at most colleges but there are some that are similar (ie: Music Production) and will include, music business, recording, production and tons of theory. What will be key is that you get hands on experience as soon as you can in order learn the ropes. The only way of doing this is by jumping in and trying not to make too many mistakes.

 

Two bands I ran sound for last month (separate 1000 seat indoor gigs) had graduates from Berkley and Miami University (two of the best music programs in the country). Curious to find out after soundcheck that 2 in each band had graduated as sound engineers. I immediately mentioned to them "hey, dig in and feel free to comment on the sound or any special techniques or whatever". The response in both cases was something like this: "you know what, I truly don't know what the f$c% to do for live sound and all them buttons kinda intimidate me". "We did alot of that $h*t in books and in workshops, but no thank you... You do your thing..." Moral of the story: In order to make it as a musician or soundman, you need to have real world experience. Don't substitute one for the other (school vs. practical exp.). Formal education can open doors and give you an important advantage when it comes to really understanding the sound aspects of music...

 

If music is your passion, then why not study it and give it a shot. I suppose the other alternative is to study a traditional field and find yourself working in a completely different area (all to common), tapping your fingers and waiting for 5:00 PM to come around in order to rush to your gig...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

this is pretty much the EXACT same question i've been meaning to ask, for a few days now.

 

im studying computer science at a 1-tier top-5 ranked place in atlanta, GA... but i really dont see myself doing computers, not anymore than i see myself... welding... though welding would probably be more fun...

 

i had to choose between CS at georgia tech, and MPE (music production and engineering) at berklee, and my folks made the call, being the ones paying for it all. it's kinda hard to explain to them why i wanna be an "electrician" or a "bandwallah" (guy that stands on the streets in india and plays at weddings). still, i've finally made them understand i DONT want to do computers, and they're sorta reluctant, but i think i can make the switch.

 

i've been thinking about switching to electrical engineering (it is a tech school, so that's the closest i can get). i want to be as involved in live sound as possible, and im thinking a degree in electrical engineering will let me then specialize in sound (signal processing) so i can hopefully end up working on equipment, anything from soldering on PCBs to hacking at cables for a living (Mark :D;):p:)) to designing mixing boards and amps. and really make a living out of it. the live sound and gigs will be only evening stuff, and i dont see myself stocking up on equipment yet (living in a college dorm has its downsides).

 

but i really want to be in the industry as a career. something i can make a living off of, something i can feed a family with. im thinking starting part-time as a "volunteer with gloves-in-hand" guy, get the experience and the connections and stuff. make pocket money running sound at gigs, and running the little studio we have at tech.

 

thanks for the advice and insights, guys... keep them coming! i wanna hear what folks like agedhorse, soundman, and sugarfried say. and anybody else in the biz.

 

thanks!

 

AS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

If it's doable I'd go for the "real" engineering degree. I myself have a BA in Computer Science. The point is that if you're really into sound (enough to put up with the lifestyle) you'll be able to learn on the job. Being educated in electronics means probably being able to fix gear, which is extremely valuable. Right now I'm checking out some different cities to relocate to (yes, I burned out on computer programming and am getting back into audio), and while I get some interest from sound companies about mixing and such, their eyes really light up when I mention that I do repairs as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Keep in mind, going to school for Recording Tech (as I am currently doing) will not automatically make you a great engineer, and there's no saying that you'll be better than someone who has had no formal schooling.. But it is a competitive world and my knowledge and degree are two more reasons that I might have an edge when I get out of school.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've been wondering the SAME thing TOO :eek::D:(

 

Now my interest is in live sound and especially recording. I just invested the better part of seven grand in my project studio this summer...and BOY does 7K not go very far...whoo....

 

FWIW by December I'll have a BA in Communications/Radio TV and Film with a minor in Theater...my main course of study was in radio, and I've got lots of production experience and gobs on on-air live mix experience. Well, Clearchannel is replacing me with automated systems and I wouldn't work for those assholes anyway.

 

Incidentally Elements and I go to the same school and had Recording Tech I together. Unfortunately I'm Communications and not part of the music department so I can't take any more of those recording classes. I'm officially learning on my own, no thanks to the University of Wisconsin. Instead of another couple year's tuition to go for another Bachelor's in music, I put the dough into my own gear and read a couple text books on my own time. I can have hands-on experience any time I want now, but unfortunatelky I have no guidance and no way to protege or apprentice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Ah some kindred spirits. I'm also sick of programming; it's interesting when you're learning new things or working on new projects, but when you get stuck doing for 2 years the same stupid thing that nobody cares about, it gets old.

 

I'm also going to school for Recording Tech in the fall. It'll be nice to have my Comp Sci degree as a safety net, though, in case I can't find work in music.

 

-Dan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...