simple rig, good time, nice noise

[chugheshc]

So we played in the street in front of my house.

I helped the guitar player set up the PA....

 

1) Peavey 8 channel little flat mixer board

2) Peavey 8.5C Amp

3) Yamaha 1 X15/horn monitors (2)

4) EV 1 X 15 w/horn on sticks (2)

5) MXR equalizer (mono, we Y-ed out of the board to it.

6) Delay rack (can't remember name)

 

4 Vocal mikes and mike the Kick on the drums.

 

each side of the amp feeding the monitor daisy-chained to

the EV-on-sticks

 

 

I couldn't believe the quality of the sound.

We were playing far, far too loud (of course)

but the vocals were just beautiful 60+ feet away from the

band.

 

Just interesting, simple, basic rig seemed to do the whole

job for us, of course we were not sending everything throught it,

but still....

 

Chris

[DaBender]

Simple little rigs like that will take care of 99% of the venues most of us will ever play, but don't try to tell that to the gear freaks around here.

[Tommy Tune]

 

Simple little rigs like that will take care of 99% of the venues most of us will ever play, but don't try to tell that to the gear freaks around here.

 

I'd say that depends on where you're playing and what they're payin'. Not too sure that I'd buy that statement and I'm not a total gearhead. Better gear does make a difference. Maybe not in every situation but I'd say in most. I do have a relatively simple setup but I'll hire a sound co. for bigger jobs. You can't race in the Grand Prix if you are runnin' a Geo Metro.

[abzurd]

 

Originally posted by DaBender Simple little rigs like that will take care of 99% of the venues most of us will ever play, but don't try to tell that to the gear freaks around here.

 

 

Read a little more. Most of the people that know what they are talking about around here PROMOTE simple rigs. Newbies come by wanting to hook up Driveracks, BBE processors, quadraphonic bass blasters (OK I made that one up) to their $500 Kustom "PA in a box". Even compressors and gates are discouraged until all the basics are covered.

 

Problem is, people are trying to buy or build PA's from dryer lint trap earnings and that don't cut it. $1000 barely buys a pair of decent FOH main speakers.

[DaBender]

 

Problem is, people are trying to buy or build PA's from dryer lint trap earnings and that don't cut it. $1000 barely buys a pair of decent FOH main speakers.

 

 

That's probably fair. I probably should have said 90%, not 99, and I did mean MOST of the people, certainly not all. I suspect the vast majority of folks that visit these boards are hobbyists playing in weekend bands that rarely play to more than a couple of hundred people or so. In these situations, some of the more popular powered mixers can handle the vocals and a little kick drum, and I feel a decent monitor system is a must. So, I would figure around $800 to $1000 for the monitor system and $1500 or so for FOH, for a total cost of $2500 or so new. This assumes the players have adequate amps and are competent musicians, capable of controlling their volume appropriately. I realize that's a leap for some folks.

[tony k]

I'd say that's a decent system. A pair of subs, a couple more power amps and an active crossover and you'd probably would be covered for 99% of your average bar/club gigs.

[tony k]

And yes, I am a gear whore......the first step is admitting the problem right

[agedhorse]

Reliability is another reason for buying (or not buying) a specific piece of equipment.

[abzurd]

I kind of see it as 2 tiered.

 

1) Just there is a minimum ante to "get in the game". A system like you suggested is that ante. Problem is at least 1/2 the bands I see have absolute crap. If I'm a bar owner paying for a band I'd be pissed if they showed up with a system so unworthy as to scare away patrons. Piezo loaded Nady speakers and 200W powered mixers should be outlawed.

 

2) If you really want to play to packed houses, have dancers and aspire to better venues, and the pay that comes with it, then the ante is going to be higher. Subs, lights, probably not running sound from stage. For some, especially the teenagers that come by it's a matter of economics. The pisser to me is that people come in this forum asking about "the cheapest thing" and then you scroll down to the signature line and they have $10K worth of instruments and corrosponding gear listed.

 

Bottom line is, just like anything else, you reap what you sow. A simple, fairly inexpensive, but well thought out "speakers on sticks" PA will work fine for the weekend warrior playing for $300 at the neighborhood watering hole. BUT - You can't expect much more. Same with the gearhead that spent everything on instrumentation and either has no $$$ left or isn't willing to part with the $$$ to get his music to the people. It's like buying an extra large milkshake then finding out large straws are .25 but you can have a coffee stirrer for free. How satisfying is that shake going to be sucked through the coffee stirrer?

[Tommy Tune]

 

Bottom line is, just like anything else, you reap what you sow.

 

This is exactly what I was trying to say. I'm not saying that you need to go out and spend 20K on a system to play in front of 50 people but when the loot commands a better system, you're going to need it. Besides that, if you sound like a $300 band............you're always gonna be a $300 band. For some people that's fine. Others will set their standards a little higher and eventually make more money.

 

EDIT: Our setup for a small club consists of a system that is around 4K. People always comment that it sounds good. Usually it comes in the form of saying that the band sounds good but I know it's because the gear is suitable for the venue's that we use it in.

[Old Steve]

It's a question of priorities....most musicians start off learning how to play an instrument and focus the vast majority of their efforts in that area. With their expanded knowledge of their instrument, they begin to appreciate the want/need for more and better equipment....suddenly the $100 Fender Squier guitar/amp combo isn't cutting it anymore. Over time, they've dropped a ton of money on WHAT THEY DO (as they define it). For example, "I'm a guitar player, so I've got 3 guitars worth $500 each, a Marshall half stack for "big" gigs that cost $1000, a pile of effects and pedals worth another $1000, a practice amp that I take to small gigs worth $300...grand total $3800 worth of guitar-related stuff...directly related to MY focus....the guitar." Bassist and drummer do the same thing...bigger kit, more cymbals, gear GEAR GEAR!!!

 

So now, these guys get together to start a band and have access to $10k worth of instrument-specific stuff, and NO PA. Even if they only budget $5k toward a PA, you're talking about each member plunking down close to 2 grand...which is half as much over what they've already spent years collecting on their other gear. In the end, this is where the corners are going to get cut....good luck finding a guitarist willing to play a $50 guitar so he can afford to play through a $5000 PA...it just doesn't happen. In the end, when the band breaks up (as they always do) most musicians would rather leave with their fancy instruments than 1/3 of a PA....."ok, here's your cut: 2 mic stands, a monitor, and a power amp, good luck."

 

Bottom line, PA gear isn't as sexy to a guitarist as that custom Strat in the window (insert musician-specific comparison of your choice here). So the vast majority of bands either rely on house systems in clubs, or try to get by with the least amount of investment possible with the hope that "someday when this band takes off, we'll upgrade." Since most bands break up long before that happens, there will always be a market for (and arguably a need for) crappy PA gear that can, at the very least, amplify a human voice to match that of the amps and the drummer.

 

(edit) PS: Combine the above with the fact that each musician is sooooo worried about his/her own sound that it's never even occurred to them to learn anything about live sound, and you've got a real recipe for noise.

[abzurd]

Yep - And I'm happy that's how it works. For those bands who are smart and aren't dead broke (like mine) it all works out in the end. We ALWAYS get asked back. It's partly because we don't suck AND partly because the PA doesn't suck.

 

Incidently, I'm as bad as everyone else. I am the singer and I haul in a rack with an AT UHF condenser wireless, TC- Helicon Voice Prism, Shure PSM400 IEM's, power conditioner, and a stereo 15 band Peavey EQ w/FLS. Mic stand, tamborine, cowbell, wired mic backup. I end up with more crap than our pod playing guitarists. Heck, I have $3,000 invested in just that stuff.

[chugheshc]

Just interesting - no one commented on my comments

that we were way, way way too loud.... outside and

you couldn't hold a conversation 60+ feet in front of the band....

I'm glad people like simple rigs; I think the big factor was an amp with grunt, that did not have any problem with a 2 ohm

load.....

Chris

[Old Steve]

Originally posted by abzurd Yep - And I'm happy that's how it works. For those bands who are smart and aren't dead broke (like mine) it all works out in the end. We ALWAYS get asked back. It's partly because we don't suck AND partly because the PA doesn't suck. Incidently, I'm as bad as everyone else. I am the singer and I haul in a rack with an AT UHF condenser wireless, TC- Helicon Voice Prism, Shure PSM400 IEM's, power conditioner, and a stereo 15 band Peavey EQ w/FLS. Mic stand, tamborine, cowbell, wired mic backup. I end up with more crap than our pod playing guitarists. Heck, I have $3,000 invested in just that stuff.

 

You seem to be the exception, not the rule. Most vocalists I've worked with are happy to invest exactly $0 on equipment. Hell, at the very least (if I could sing, which I can't ) I'd buy a microphone that isn't covered in all kinds of DNA and other anti-matter that can appear on "house" mics in some of the more questionable establishments we play.

 

It always seemed odd to me that a vocalist wouldn't at least go out and get a decent mic that was somewhat more tailored to their vocal style.

[Tommy Tune]

It's always possible to get good sound out of a middle of the road rig if the conditions are perfect but what about the other 98% of the time? Most of the time, you'll find that the better the band is................ the better gear they'll have. That's not necessarily true in every case but most of the time it is. I can see how a {censored}ty market will not allow a good band to afford good gear. It's also a matter of priorities. If a band is willing to eat a few gigs to get what they need, then they'll be better off in the long run. That is........... as long as they have someone qualified enough to run it. I'd be just as happy with a sound company but it's more expensive putting $200 out every show for someone to run it. That's 20 to 25% of the take (on average). I'd rather take that 20 to 25% and re-invest it or pay everyone in the band a little more. I don't charge the band to run my gear but we have an understanding that every year or so, I can upgrade on the band's dime. That keeps the gear working, current, and usually helps to get something that will give us a little better sound. All of it helps the bottom line....................higher paying gigs, a bigger following, and repeat business (as well as new business).