More questions from the nOOb!

[catphish]

Okay I've been reading an article on Gain matching, and it seems to me once you match the gain of your mixer and EQ to your amp (done with pink noise) you should be able to just write down the settings and not have to do it again, correct?

 

I read an article that said to gain match the mixer and power amp, the input attenuators should NOT be all the way up because: "many amps will distort at +6Db, but many mixer's won't distort until +18 Db, therefore if you leave the power amp turned up all the way you'll loose 12 Db of volume." That doesn

[Brad Harris]

Hey Dugan,

 

Well your heading in the right direction, but way out in left field.

 

Maybe this will help.

 

Think of your mixer as the centre of your system. This is where the gain stages, amplifications, attenuations start to affect the audio signal.

 

In a properly setup system, when the mixer clips, so does everything downstream of it as well (amps, eq, processors, etc). Insertables and the such aren't down stream of the mixer, they're just little eddies, circulating back into the main stream.

 

So figure a typical setup as follows:

Mixer -> Main EQ -> Speaker Processor -> Amplifier

 

Now this is a little 'grey area'. Do you set it up so when the mixer actually starts to clip, or when the meter tells you so? My preference is if the board actually cliping point is well into the red, then the 2nd or 3rd red meter is where I would like everything else to clip at (It all depends on the mixer + the tech too). An easy way to figure this out is using a piezo tweeter attatched to a TRS connector, attatched to the T+R connections. Send a

 

Check your meter to see where it is on your board and make note and/or adjust as necessary (the output) to something that is meaningful to you (ie, my 2-3rd led).

 

Now just hook up your Main EQ, and plug the piezo into the output and basically do the same thing w/out adjusting the board. When the signal clips, continue on to the next piece which is your speaker processor .......

 

Also if your providing, let the BE know where/when the system will clip via the meters.

 

Also, before hand on your speaker processor (if applicable) and your main eq, it needs to be adjusted properly for the speakers/room. On smaller rigs it is not as necessary for the main eq to be like this, but definatly the speaker processor. If the processor is setup properly, then there should be little needed to be done with the main eq speaker wise, just accounting for how the speaker interacts with the space/room.

 

Some consoles will clip before the red meters even light up, some won't until into the red. It all depends on the designer of the console.

 

But back to your question about adding more reverb if needed, as long as your system is setup properly gain wise (and everything else too I hope), as long as you don't clip your mixer (or designated point of clip), your fine for bringing in more reverb, etc.

[catphish]

Interesting tip about the Piezo speaker. I can definitely try that.

 

About the reverb though. I'm sure I can turn up the reverb, but am I correct in assuming that to add more reverb, without a volume increase, I need to both increase the wet signal (aux level knob) and decrease my dry signal (channel fader).

[Brad Harris]

Alrighty, you've got your reverb off of aux 2 (post fader send) and coming back into an unused channel.

 

The wet/dry should be 100% wet, as your already mixing the signal @ the board. So if you want more reverb, either raise the fader of the reverb, or raise the signal going to the reverb. Simple as that.

 

Generally the only times for live use for the wet/dry is if you inserted the reverb, or similar where the original signal (before the reverb) is not going to be mixed with the reverb signal (after the reverb).

[catphish]

I'm still confused, or missing something obvious. I have four vocals going into channels 1-4. Their signal is routed both directly to the main (what I'M calling my dry signal), AND to the Aux 2->rev->mixer channel 15 and then AGAIN into the main (which I'm calling my wet signal), but this time with reverb.

 

So now, the signal is going into my main output twice, once with reverb and once without. So, unless I lower the original signal at the same time as I boost the aux 2 signal, it will increase the volume. Or, are you telling me don't run the original signal into the main at all and use only the effected signal?

 

Sorry for not catching on here...

[Brad Harris]

Chanels 1-4 are dry signals, they go out the main ouputs. What you send through the reverb unit should be at 100% wet, and you are bringing them back into channel 15 and out the main outputs.

 

I'm guessing you set up the vocals at an appropriate level, but you would like he hear a little more reverb, go a head and turn that channel up more, there isn't a rule about having to turn down the source channel if your going to add more effect to that souce channel.

 

Its the same as adding something else (say a guitar, or keys, etc) that isn't quite loud enough in the mix (relative to everything else). You don't have to turn down the 1-4 channels if you want more reverb, and have the same output. In a sense yes you are making things louder, but everythings relative, reverb doesn't necessaryly make things louder.

[catphish]

I think I understand....so when you say 100% wet, you mean just the reverbed channel. I think I understand what your saying, just odd how, even a reverb, signal being boosted won't make the volume dramatically increase. I won't have the reverb unit for a few days, but I'm sure once I set it all up it will make more sense. Thanks for all the help.

 

-Dugan

[kevinnemrava]

Might I just add...

 

the signal coming ou tof the reverb (assumeing you have it set to 100% wet) is only the reverb part. It doesn't have teh originial dry sound in it.

 

so yes it will be louder, .. cause you adding more stuff. BUT you are not just adding more of the SAME stuff, it is a new signal.

 

SO by the time the signal is heading back in to the board, you hae the reverb sound NOT any of the dry sound.

 

 

Make any sense?

[catphish]

Originally posted by kevinnemrava It doesn't have teh originial dry sound in it. Make any sense?

 

Yes.makes total sense. This is the part that was confusing me. I was forgetting that the reverb is a stand alone effect, not like when I turn the reverb up on my powered mixer, and so 100% wet will only be the sound of the effect, and no origonal signal.

 

I got it now. I think.